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McGuv19

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  1. When I first read the title of this post I thought it meant sailing ships so I was all ready to write about King Robert’s Hammer and Sea Bitch. And now I’m all disappointed. If anyone was wondering, my favourite ship in ASOIAF is Black Betha
  2. ie, Robb, Balon, Joffrey, Renly, or Stannis, which of them did you hope would succeed and which do you think would be/would have been the best outcome for the realm at large? For me factors include the personal qualities of each king, what their cause was, and the positives and negatives of their success, both short and long term. For example, Renly was the most liked king among the smallfolk and imo would most likely have been able to restore peace the quickest had he won. However, if he ascended to the Iron Throne, in the long term this may create a problem, as it would set a dangerous precedent, with the heir seen as the most capable taking the throne rather than the oldest, which could create more succession wars in the future. Personally, the king who I supported the least is Balon, since he really should have learnt a rebellion was not the way to go back in Greyjoy’s rebellion, and also how he wanted to revive the Ironborn’s reaver culture and raid Westeros again is hardly sustainable. Also, to me he seems to make poor decisions, as he refused to attack Lannisport because Tywin was “too cunning by half”, which didn’t really make sense given that since he literally wants to secede from the 7K, he would definitely be on Tywin’s hit list regardless of attacking Lannisport or not, albeit near the bottom. Anyway, what are your 2 cents on this? Was Robb right to rebel? Should Renly have tried to jump the order of succession? And is there anyone on this forum who actually respects Balon?
  3. I think it would have gone to a son, and the new lord(s) of the gift would be pledged to support the NW with food etc, since the main problem is the NW dont have enough people to properly use the land of the gift. Shame Ned’s plans never got realised since it would have gone quite a long way in strengthening the NW against the Others and wildlings.
  4. Props to CamiloRP for persevering through this thread! I only had to read it, I cant imagine how it was actually debating! The clash between Camilo and the Aegon VI is Jaqen theory will be spoke of on this board for aeons to come!
  5. I doubt Manderly is out there. He is injured, as you said, and seeing as he is “too fat to sit a horse” there wouldn’t be much point in having to bring him in his litter.
  6. Sorry if I came off aggressive, I was not trying to make you feel bad or anything.
  7. Historically, Targaryen. At the start of ASOIAF it is obviously Baratheon. Currently (at the end of ADWD) I think it is the Tyrells. However, one could make the case that Dany (and therefore House Targaryen) is the most powerful since she has the ultimate weapon : dragons.
  8. I disagree with a lot of the op. But a disclaimer, I am not saying any of these characters are pinnacles of virtue. All of the characters have their flaws and are grey, but I would like to challenge the Op’s thoughts that they are the ‘true villains’ of the books. You can say Dany is evil and greedy for wanting the Throne, but that is hardly a remarkably bad thing in-universe. How did the Starks, Martells, Arryns, and other houses gain their positions of power? 9 times out of ten, through fire and blood. Also, the war in Slaver’s Bay is IMO the most just conflict ever fought in the entire series. Dany has the very best casus belli anyone could want. She has good motivations for fighting which is more than you can say for anything Gregor or Ramsay do. I do however think she will be seen as a villain upon arriving in Westeros, but she is too shortsighted to realise this. She is not a villain.. yet. Jon was going to leave the Watch and save Arya by battling Ramsay. Ramsay had threatened the Watch and Jon with death, and they had no way of carrying out Ramsay’s demands. The Wall has laughable defenses when attacked from the south, so the best chance the Watch had was to take the fight to Ramsay. Also, Jon did not force his brothers to break their vows, he only took wildlings who volunteered. Bowen may have been right to kill Jon for breaking vows, but that doesn’t mean Jon was wrong in marching against Ramsay. The assessments of Ned and Robb I mostly agree with tbh. They were willing to start wars over ‘honour’, instead of making the choice best for the realm as a whole and keeping the peace. This is very similar to Tywin using Tyrion’s abduction as a pretext to invade the Riverlands. However, these four characters are far from the ‘true villains’ of ASOIAF. Sadists like Euron, Ramsay, and Gregor are definitely villains with no redeeming features. I think the “true villain” so far is Petyr Baelish, as he has engineered much of the conflict that is happening in Westeros through deceit and manipulation, though I fully expect, once his true motivations are revealed, he will become a more understandable/sympathetic character.
  9. Tywin was at war and he was killing an enemy leader, the biggest threat to the kingdom, and his commanders. Was it dishonourable? I think so. But being honourable doesn’t win wars, being ruthless and cunning does. Tywin did what needed to be done to halt the secession of the North. Whether Robb was justified in seceding is another question entirely, but in the eyes of the Lannisters and the Throne Robb was a rebel lord and nothing more, and was dealt with as such. Roose and the Freys broke their vows to Robb respectively. However, Tywin swore no vows to Robb and owed him nothing. Roose and Freys broke their vows in exchange for the various boons offered by Tywin. The Boltons and Freys had the means, motive, and opportunity, all Tywin did was offer them the opportunity to get away with it and *probably* helped plan it. “Tywin didn’t start wars, he finished them.”
  10. If Pod does have ulterior motives, he may be working for Varys. There is lots of reference to Podrick being tongue-tied, which could allude to Varys’ little birds typically not having tongues. However, it is probably just a reference to Ilyn Payne losing his tongue.
  11. I find Jalabahr Xho pretty imteresting. I also liked Jacelyn Bywater the Ironhand. Jason Mallister I am into and I hope he will become more important later on. I also like Justin Massey as well as the knights Creighton and Illifer.
  12. 1. Roose Bolton is an Other 2. X is the YMB (IMO it is Cersei herself) 3. Jonsa
  13. Tywin Lannister. Tywin brought the Westerlands prestige and power after undoing his father’s weakness. He quickly made sure he was secure in his position as Lord Paramount and had authority over his vassals. Note how in all regions there are overmighty or ambitious bannermen (Hightowers, Boltons, Yronwoods), except in the Westerlands. Also, Tywins’s entire tenure as Joffrey’s Hand was spent building alliances for the future, and finishing the war quickly. The only thing I think he could have done better was giving relief to the smallfolk, especially in the Riverlands.
  14. If you are into historical-political stories, I would recommend a few. You may like these if you are more interested in the political machinations of ASOIAF like me, rather than the fantasy side. I would recommend the Cicero trilogy by Robert Harris (Imperium, Lustrum, and Dictator). I’ve only read the first one, Imperium, and I haven’t been able to get hold of the others due to the pandemic, but it was a great read. It is set in the Roman Republic, and follows the life of Cicero, in his journey to become Senator. However, the entire story is told from the point of view of Cicero’s personal slave, which I found interesting. I would also recommend Conn Iggulden’s series Wars Of The Roses, set in the period ASOIAF is partly based on. They follow several POVs through the Wars of the Roses, and are a great series. Also, I would recommend Blood and Beauty, by Sarah Dunant. I was a bit cautious at first, since the book is set in Renaissance Italy, which I was not much interested in. But they were great books, very similar to ASOIAF, with multiple POVs, plenty of political games and a fair bit of war too. The book follows the rise to power of the Borgia family, with the patriarch Rodrigo, a Cardinal at the book’s beginning, and his children, who all have distinct personalities and motivations. This one I would recommend the most highly. For a shorter read I would recommend Dissolution by CJ Sansom. It follows a lawyer as he attempts to unravel a murder at a monastery in Tudor England, set in the period where Henry VIII was preparing to dissolve all the monasteries in the country. It is more of a mystery book than the grand historical narratives from Wars of the Roses or Blood and Beauty, but it proves that you don’t need kings or lords, or massive battles to tell a compelling story. If you are into fantasy more, I would recommend His Dark Materials by Philip Pullman. They are fairly well known, but if you don’t know, they are about a world similar to ours, but containing different elements of science and magic.
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