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boltons are sick

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  1. I have read The World of Ice and Fire some time ago and I must say that there are a lot of brutal deeds commited there. But who in your opinion was the most brutal and evil character that doesn't appear in the main ASOIAF series? Please, make a list of them and write a few sentences of what they have done that's so barbaric that they have earned a spot on the list.
  2. It's strange that you hate Tyrion for being a rapist but at the same time you completely ignore that Tywin had a young girl gang raped by an entire garrison of soldiers. What Tywin did is much worse than what Tyrion did and Tyrion at least felt some remorse.
  3. I would say something in between. He has done a lot of awful things but he has also suffered quite a lot throughout his life and he is capable of doing good things as well as bad.
  4. Do be honest, probably yeah. However, the only plausible situation where sacrifing millions of people would give her power is if she starts serving the Chaos Gods (the servants of Chaos have the reputation for being the worst fraction in 40k after the Dark Eldar for a reason). Otherwise, she would just be a ruthless, scheming noble who commits political assassinations on her rivals and tortures people when she needs information but that's hardly anything special for Warhammer 40000.
  5. I really doubt that Tywin or Cersei would reach the level of the abovementioned villains. They will surely be oppresive to their people but they would not commit atrocities to the same extent as the servants of Chaos, the Dark Eldar or Goge Vandire. Also, Cersei already has a lot of power in Westeros (she is literally the ruler of the entire kingdom) and despite this she doesn't really commit any gigantic massacres. She just hurts a limited amount of people that are close to her.
  6. Warhammer 40000 actually has complex villains. Warmaster Horus is the first one to come to mind. His actions are just as bad as the abovementioned examples but he was driven by his own insecurities that his father, the Emperor, would cast him aside as soon as the galaxy is conquered and his accomplishments would be forgotten in time. Erebus and the Chaos Gods used this to manipulate him and turn him against the Imperium and he commited many atrocities like destroying and commiting genocide on the Interix civilization (which spans for over 30 solar systems), arranging a huge massacre where he killed hundreds of thousands of his brethren Space Marines, corrupted many of his followers to Chaos, started a civil war which tore the galaxy apart and claimed the lives of trillions of people, sacrificed the inhabitants of an entire solar system and sent their souls to be tortured forever, so that he can empower powerful Daemons, attempted to kill his own father, etc. However, before the manipulations of Erebus he was a noble person who wanted to serve the Imperium and help humanity prosper. Also, in his dying moments Horus displays deep remorse for his many atrocities and even asks his father to kill him because he can't live with himself after what he has done. So, I would say that Horus is a complex villain (though not on the same level as some of the ASOIAF examples). Lorgar is another example of a complex villain. At first he wanted only to worship the Emperor as a god and upon conquering a planet, he would convert the local population to his newly created faith. However, worshipping someone as a god in the world of 40k unintentionally empowers the Chaos Gods as well and the Emperor was forced to stop this by massacring millions of worshippers in front of Lorgar and destroying an entire city. This caused Lorgar to lose his faith in the Emperor and he wanted something else to worship. For that reason, he was easily manipulated by Erebus and he started worshipping the Chaos Gods. He also commited many atrocities to appease the Chaos Gods (like massacring the population of 27 planets to perform a ritual which requires a gigantic human sacrifice) but he does these things because he suffers from deep insecurities and wants his efforts at worshipping to be appreciated. The Emperor is not exactly a villain and he is the closest thing this universe has to a hero but he is also a xenophobe who wants to slaughter all alien life in the entire galaxy and has destroyed countless civilizations and has killed trillions of innocent beings. He also regularly kills billions of his own subjects if he suspects that they are breaking his rules not to communicate with aliens and has created the Inqusition who have the authority to torture many people to death and destroy entire planets. However, his ultimate goal is to make humanity the strongest fraction in the galaxy and he genuinely cares about protecting humanity (in fact, his desire to exterminate all aliens stems from his belief that this would make humans the superior species and that all aliens are potential threat) and he also loves his sons so much to the point where when Horus tries to kill him, the Emperor refuses to defend himself because he doesn't want to harm his beloved son. So, there are complex villains in the world of 40k even though most of them are cartoonishly evil.
  7. Yeah, I agree with that. Just wanted to point out that the 40k villains are more vile even though a lot of people think that the ASOIAF villains are the most evil.
  8. I have been in the ASOIAf community for a long time now and everyone is talking how GRRM creates some really repulsive and over the top villains. However, the villains from Westeros are much less evil than the villains from the 40k universe. Below, I will copy and paste all the entries of the Warhammer 40000 villains who were approved as Complete Monsters by TV Tropes (you can read the criteria for the trope here).
  9. As I mentioned, this list is in no particular order and I agree that Ramsay is worse than Joffrey. The list wasn't created by me but by TV Tropes for their trope called Complete Monster and while Tywin is certainly very bad, he has some redeeming qualities which prevent him from qualifying for the trope.
  10. Out of curiosity, but why do you put the High Sparrow above Walder and Cersei? The only bad thing he has done so far is forcing Cersei to walk naked through the streets and even though I felt bad for her and in general I sympathize with Cersei, I really doubt this is as bad as the Red Wedding or some of the things Cersei herself has done. Also, if you don't think that Aerys is evil because he is mentally unstable, you shouldn't label the Biter as evil too. GRRM revealed that the reason why the Biter was so messed up is because Rorge found him when he was an orphan on the streets of King's Landing and decided to raise him. Rorge then cut off Biter's tongue, filed his teeth into points and then forced him to fight in a pit against dogs and bears with only his bare teeth. This would mess anyone up, so I don't put him as high as some of the other characters. From the two of them, Rorge is the bigger monster by far and I definitely would rank him among the most evil characters in the ASOIAF universe despite his minor role. Here is his entry on TV Tropes (I bolded the part where it's explained what Rorge did to Biter):
  11. I don't know Aerion, so I can't comment on him. Aerys, Tywin, Roose and Walder have redeeming qualities which means that they don't belong to this trope. Of course, you can still think that they are among the most evil characters and should be included in a list of the most evil ASOIAF characters because that's subjective. Aerys genuinely loves his children and mourns their deaths after they are born in stillborn forms and then tried to comfort his mourning wife as well. Plus, you could make an argument that his insanity is so intense that it affects his moral agency and capacity to make rational decisions which is another thing that would disqualify him from this trope. Tywin loves his wife, Joanna, and there are a lot of people who have known Tywin personally and claim that the two of them were happy together. Her death seems to affect Tywin considering that he blames Tyrion non-stop for it. He also loves Jaime and Cersei (he smiled brightly on the day they were born) and also appears to have a good relationship with his brother, Kevan. The conversation between Roose Bolton and Theon proves that he loved his firstborn son, Domeric Bolton. He mentions that he tried to warn him not to look for Ramsay and when he died, Roose was angry and wanted to kill Ramsay to avenge his son but didn't do it only because kinslaying is a great sin. Walder Frey appears to have some care for his family (or at least most of his family) plus I am not sure if he is bad enough compared to the rest of the characters.
  12. That's still not enough to make him stand out among the other characters from the series but he is definitely on his way to join this list.
  13. Could you explain why you think Craster and Maegor are questionable? In Craster's case, if it's because you think that his actions are not bad enough compared to those of the other characters, I don't agree. Craster raises his own daughters to be his sex slaves and routinely rapes them and he also sacrifices his own sons to the Others. That's very bad even by ASOIAF standards, not to mention that Craster also lacks the resources of other characters to harm people on large scale. He is just an old guy who lives in a house in the middle of nowhere and despite this, he commits mass infanticide and mass rape on his own family.
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