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  1. boltons are sick

    Why do people think that Cersei is one-dimensional?

    I never said that she is a good parent. I simply said that she genuinely loves her children and not just as extensions of herself. You are right. We are not meant to excuse their actions just because they live in medieval period. However, I believe that GRRM wanted us to understand them and see where they are coming from (understanding why someone does something is not the same as excusing their actions). For example, I can see why the Ironborn pillage villages and reave (this is part of their culture and they were taught from a very young age that it is normal). This doesn`t mean that I excuse their actions. Everyone is a product of their environment. Don`t forget that after 500 years some of the things that you do or think are normal could be considered barbaric or just inappropriate. I don`t want to excuse Cersei`s treatment of Tommen but there is no indication of her abusing him before aFFC. And by aFFC she had just lost her other son and her father, has arguments with her lover, is paranoid that Tyrion could kill Tommen at any moment, thinks that the family of Tommen`s wife have released Tyrion from his cell and that they had taken part in Joffrey`s death (which is actually true), thinks that Tommen is too weak and trusting to defend himself and needs to though up etc. This doesn`t excuse her abuse, of course, but in her own mind she is helping her son but she can't see that she is only undermining his confidence. GRRM doesn`t want us to excuse Cersei`s behaviour or actions but he wants us to see where she is coming from (he does this with his other characters too). That is my interpretation at least.
  2. boltons are sick

    Why do people think that Cersei is one-dimensional?

    I agree that she is not a good mother and lacks essential parenting skills but I don't agree that she loves her kids only as extensions of herself. She worries about Tommen being lonely and wants to bring Merryweather's son to court which shows that she actually cares about his happiness. She thinks about Joffrey being lonely before him too. And having a whipping boy for the crown Prince was considered normal in Medieval England (GRRM based his books on that period). In England no one could strike or punish the Prince and for that reason the royal family had a whipping boy. As modern readers we are expected to be disgusted by this practice but it was considered normal in Medieval England (and in Westeros, I guess). However, forcing the prince to whip the boy himself and threatening to cut out the whipping boy's tongue if he doesn't, wasn't considered normal even in Medieval England and is very abusive, I will grant you that. And Cersei does worry about Myrcella when she learns she is injured. Before that she even made a complicated plan to kill Trystane and to take Myrcella back to KL because she was worried about her life. The author just wanted to show us that loving your kids doesn't equal good parenting skills and that you can love someone and still be abusive towards him (while thinking that it is for their good). There are many parents like Cersei and I actually know a few (their are emotionally abusive to their kids but in their minds they are 'helping' them).
  3. boltons are sick

    Why do people think that Cersei is one-dimensional?

    Well, I have actually seen a lot of people in this forum who think Cersei is one-dimensional and lacks complexity.
  4. I think that people are confusing likeability with character depth and complexity. Cersei is a actually one of the most complex characters I have ever encountered even though she has almost no redeeming qualities and is a truly disgusting person. I will analyse her character in this post and prove that she doesn`t lack character depth (this doesn`t mean that I will try to whitewash her or claim that she isn`t an evil and ruthless person). This is my own interpretation from the books so not everybody will agree with me. If you feel that I have left out something or don`t agree with my interpretation, please write in the comments: Personality - She thinks very high of herself and is very proud of her intelligence and her looks. She has dreams of importance and power. She is paranoid and always thinks that someone is plotting against her or her children. She has trouble feeling empathy towards anyone that is not part of her family. She constantly needs a positive feedback (people telling her how smart and beautiful she is). She can`t stand criticism and often lashes out when somebody tries to correct her. She tries to control even the people she loves (Jaime and Tommen), Underneath this facade, however, she is very insecure and has inferiority complex. She has a nihilistic outlook on life. I think she suffers from a severe Narcissistic Personality Disorder and can`t form normal relationships with other people (which is very sad if you think about it). Relationship with Tywin - Tywin is the most influencial figure in Cersei`s life. Her relationship with her dad is very complex. Her father was cold and distant and this led to Cersei actively trying to impress him and believing that she should hide her emotions like her dad does. Tywin taught his daughter a lot of lessons - that she can`t afford mercy to her enemies, that the Lannister name comes first, that she should be ruthless to survive in the cruel world, that she shouldn`t care about the opinion of the small folk, that she shouldn`t show any sign of weakness etc. Cersei often uses her father to justify her wrongdoings - for example when she tortures the Blue Bard, she is repulsed by the sight and wants to stop but reminds herself that her father wouldn`t stop and wouldn`t look away. I think that part of the reason why Cersei blamed Tyrion for the death of their mother was because she saw Tywin (her role model) do it and copied his attitude. Cersei tries to act like her father but she is too emotional and always makes mistakes. On the other hand, she also fears her father and is afraid of disappointing him. Tywin was emotionally abusive towards Cersei (and her brothers, epecially Tyrion) but she still worships him. When Tywin dies, his daughter is devastated by his death. She worships him so much that she can`t even admit that he is not all-powerful and that he is sleeping with whores (Shae). Her whole relationship with her father has made her associate bullying with power. Relationship with Tyrion - Cersei despised her little brother from the moment he was born. Cersei always blamed him for 'killing' their mother (she was copying that attitude from Tywin). She also despised him for being a dwarf (physically deformed people are regarded as evil in Westeros), so part of the reason for hating him is ableism. She was verbally, emotionally and physically (twisting his penis, pinching him, slapping him) bullying him. She also hates and fears Tyrion because of the valonqar prophecy. Cersei thinks that Tyrion is an evil person who wants to kill her and her children. This has caused her to become paranoid and even unhinged later in the series. In aCoK there were a few nice moments between them indicating that Cersei was actually starting to like Tyrion for helping her rule King`s Landing. However, any chances of nice relationship between these two were destroyed when Tyrion kidnapped Tommen, when Cersei retaliated by kidnapping Alayaya and when Tyrion threatened her. From that moment on Cersei was entirely convinced that Tyrion is the valonqar. I believe that she was the one who ordered Mandon Moore to kill Tyrion in order to prevent her prophecy. After that, when her son died, Tyrion was the first one she blamed for his death and she tried to execute him. Now, after Tyrion has killed Tywin, Cersei hates him even more and is even more afraid of him. Whenever something goes wrong, it is always Tyrion`s fault. Relationship with Jaime - This is her closest person (her twin brother, her childhood friend and her lover). Cersei and Jaime`s relationship is pretty interesting - they love each other but in a way, their love is an expression of their narcissism (they see each other as 'one person', they are both pretty arrogant and they think that Lannisters are above all other people), they are both abusive to each other in different ways (Cersei slaps Jaime when she is displeased with him and doesn`t show any sympathy for his lost hand, Jaime initiates sex without Cersei`s consent even when she had just lost her child, when she complains about something, Jaime just distracts her with kisses and sex and he doesn`t care that Cersei had lost her son). Their relationship is extremely unhealthy but Jaime is still one of the few people that Cersei loves. Tyrion even recounts that Cersei kissed him once only to make Jaime happy. Also, when Cersei kidnapped Alayaya she tells Tyrion that she would like to kill him but won`t do it because this would upset Jaime and he would never forgive her. Cersei is clearly the dominant partner in this relationship and Jaime is the submissive one. It was Cersei`s idea for Jaime to join the King`s Guard so that they may continue their relationship. She had three kids from Jaime because she didn`t want to carry her rapist`s kids. I don`t agree with the people who think that Cersei doesn`t love Jaime and only uses him and sees him as a tool - she slept with him throughout her entire marriage with Robert even though she didn`t get anything from it, she was worried about him when he got captured by the Starks and was angry with Tyrion for not releasing him, she was worried about him when she heard that he searching for Tyrion alone in the dark, she thinks a lot about him in aFFC and she even had a dream about him while imprisoned by the Faith. Cersei was always a little jelous of jaime because he was a male and she was not. Cersei thinks that she deserves to be praised by her father more than her twin. When Jaime came from his jorney changed, she could not get used to his changes and started pushing him away. Now it is too late for her to fix their relationship. Relationship with Joanna - Cersei was devastated by the death of her mother. She lost her female role model at the age of 7 and this caused a lot of psychological problems later on. Relationship with Robert - At first Cersei was excited about her marriage and tried to like Robert. However, when he started beating her, raping her and cheating on her, she started resenting him. This went on for 15 years and it ruined her mental health severely. She didn`t want to carry his child and aborted it. Then, when her affair with Jaime was threatened to be exposed, she manipulated Lancel into killing her husband. She didn`t care about his death and was actually glad that her abuser has finally died. Views on gender - Cersei resents her role as a woman. She recalls that when she and her twin changed clothes, people would treat them differently. Cersei was the eldest daughter of Tywin Lannister and the only reason why she couldn`t inherit the Rock was her gender - this drove her really crazy. She was taught to knit, prey and please by her septa but she wanted to fight with swords like her twin. When Robert started abusing her she had another reason to resent her position as a woman in Medieval society. If Cerseiwere born a male, she would have inherited the Rock and she wouldn`t have to suffer through marital rape and abuse from her husband. However, Cersei is very misogynistic herself - she doesn`t help other women who have it worse than her, she doesn`t care about other women getting raped and even thinks they enjoy it, she always calls other women 'hens', she always judges other women on their appearance, she thinks that Sansa should put up with Joffrey`s teatment etc. Cersei is a classic example of an internalized sexist. She thinks all women (with the exception of her) are stupid and doesn`t care about them. Cersei thinks that she should have been born a male because she lusts for power. However, she still takes advantage of her gender - she manipulates lancel and the Kettleblacks through sex, she rules the Seven Kingdoms as the Queen Regent through her sons etc. Prophecy - Cersei fears for the lives of her children and for herself because of the valonqar prophecy. Because of it, she is also paranoid about Tyrion, Margery and Sansa. However, I don`t believe that the 'younger, more beautiful queen' will be either Margery or Sansa. And I think that her valonqar will be Jaime because it would be very dramatic and sad - he is one of the few people she has ever loved. Lust for power - As any narcissist, she has an inferiority complex and needs power in order to feel secure. Cersei wants to prove to her father, to the others and to herself that she is capable of ruling despite being a woman (it is quite tragic if you think about it). However, she is not good at ruling and not because she is a woman but because she is too emotional, makes rash decisions and is too paranoid. She is obviously smart but not as smart as she thinks she is. Cersei doesn`t like feeling weak and despises weakness whenever she sees it. So, she wants to feel secure by acquiring more power. However, her obsession with power is very unhealthy and it will be her downfall. Relationship with her kids - Despite what many people in this forum say, Cersei genuinely loves her kids. However, she is not a good mother. Joffrey is obviously her favourite child. She spoiled him so much that he turned into an entitled brat who bullies everyone and has sadistic tendencies. When he died, Cersei is devastated by his death. She is becoming more and more paranoid about losing her remaining two kids. Cersei becomes emotionally abusive towards Tommen because she wants to 'toughen him up'. She wants to protect him from their enemies and doesn`t want to see him die like Joffrey. Cersei is not a good mother to Tommen but she genuinely believes that she is helping him. She sees his shyness as a weakness and she doesn`t tolerate weakness. However, with her actions Cersei only further undermines the confidence of her son without even realizing it. Relationship with Sansa - Cersei manipulated and used Sansa to try to stop the war. Cersei is also paranoid because she thinks that Sansa might be the 'younger, more beautiful queen' from her prophecy. She thinks that Sansa is too stupid and naive for this world. However, there are two scenes in aCoK when Cersei tries to 'educate' Sansa in her own way (after Sansa got her first moon blood and during the Battle of Blackwater). I think that Cersei felt a little bad for Sansa even if she doesn`t want to admit it. After all, their situations were similar - Sansa was disillusioned of Joffrey just like Cersei was disillusioned of Robert, they were both abused by her husbands etc. However, Cersei doesn`t tell her son to stop abusing Sansa. She simply tells Sansa that she should get used to it because the world is cruel. All in all, that is my interpretation of Cersei`s character. If you feel like I have missed something out or you don`t agree with my interpretation, please write in the comments. I really wish that more people would start appreciating Cersei`s complexity. I am not denying that she is an evil person but i think that GRRM wanted his readers to sympathize with Cersei. If this wasn`t the case, he wouldn`t have given her POV chapters. And I am sorry for playing the 'sexist card' again but some of the hate Cersei gets is really sexist. There are many people who don`t hate her for giving people to Qyburn, for ordering the deaths of innocent children, for murdering the high septon etc. but they instead hate her for cheating on Jaime, for cheating on her husband (who raped her), for aborting the child of her rapist, for sleeping around and 'behaving like a whore', for using sex to 'corrupt' the 'noble' and 'pure' Jaime Lannister etc. I am not saying that everyone who hates Cersei is sexist, because there are many legitimate reasons to hate her, but a large part of the people who hate her hate her for very sexist reasons.
  5. I think that people are confusing likeability with character depth and complexity. Cersei is a actually one of the most complex characters I have ever encountered even though she has almost no redeeming qualities and is a truly disgusting person. I will analyse her character in this post and prove that she doesn`t lack character depth (this doesn`t mean that I will try to whitewash her or claim that she isn`t an evil and ruthless person). This is my own interpretation from the books so not everybody will agree with me. If you feel that I have left out something or don`t agree with my interpretation, please write in the comments: Personality - She thinks very high of herself and is very proud of her intelligence and her looks. She has dreams of importance and power. She is paranoid and always thinks that someone is plotting against her or her children. She has trouble feeling empathy towards anyone that is not part of her family. She constantly needs a positive feedback (people telling her how smart and beautiful she is). She can`t stand criticism and often lashes out when somebody tries to correct her. She tries to control even the people she loves (Jaime and Tommen), Underneath this facade, however, she is very insecure and has inferiority complex. She has a nihilistic outlook on life. I think she suffers from a severe Narcissistic Personality Disorder and can`t form normal relationships with other people (which is very sad if you think about it). Relationship with Tywin - Tywin is the most influencial figure in Cersei`s life. Her relationship with her dad is very complex. Her father was cold and distant and this led to Cersei actively trying to impress him and believing that she should hide her emotions like her dad does. Tywin taught his daughter a lot of lessons - that she can`t afford mercy to her enemies, that the Lannister name comes first, that she should be ruthless to survive in the cruel world, that she shouldn`t care about the opinion of the small folk, that she shouldn`t show any sign of weakness etc. Cersei often uses her father to justify her wrongdoings - for example when she tortures the Blue Bard, she is repulsed by the sight and wants to stop but reminds herself that her father wouldn`t stop and wouldn`t look away. I think that part of the reason why Cersei blamed Tyrion for the death of their mother was because she saw Tywin (her role model) do it and copied his attitude. Cersei tries to act like her father but she is too emotional and always makes mistakes. On the other hand, she also fears her father and is afraid of disappointing him. Tywin was emotionally abusive towards Cersei (and her brothers, epecially Tyrion) but she still worships him. When Tywin dies, his daughter is devastated by his death. She worships him so much that she can`t even admit that he is not all-powerful and that he is sleeping with whores (Shae). Her whole relationship with her father has made her associate bullying with power. Relationship with Tyrion - Cersei despised her little brother from the moment he was born. Cersei always blamed him for 'killing' their mother (she was copying that attitude from Tywin). She also despised him for being a dwarf (physically deformed people are regarded as evil in Westeros), so part of the reason for hating him is ableism. She was verbally, emotionally and physically (twisting his penis, pinching him, slapping him) bullying him. She also hates and fears Tyrion because of the valonqar prophecy. Cersei thinks that Tyrion is an evil person who wants to kill her and her children. This has caused her to become paranoid and even unhinged later in the series. In aCoK there were a few nice moments between them indicating that Cersei was actually starting to like Tyrion for helping her rule King`s Landing. However, any chances of nice relationship between these two were destroyed when Tyrion kidnapped Tommen, when Cersei retaliated by kidnapping Alayaya and when Tyrion threatened her. From that moment on Cersei was entirely convinced that Tyrion is the valonqar. I believe that she was the one who ordered Mandon Moore to kill Tyrion in order to prevent her prophecy. After that, when her son died, Tyrion was the first one she blamed for his death and she tried to execute him. Now, after Tyrion has killed Tywin, Cersei hates him even more and is even more afraid of him. Whenever something goes wrong, it is always Tyrion`s fault. Relationship with Jaime - This is her closest person (her twin brother, her childhood friend and her lover). Cersei and Jaime`s relationship is pretty interesting - they love each other but in a way, their love is an expression of their narcissism (they see each other as 'one person', they are both pretty arrogant and they think that Lannisters are above all other people), they are both abusive to each other in different ways (Cersei slaps Jaime when she is displeased with him and doesn`t show any sympathy for his lost hand, Jaime initiates sex without Cersei`s consent even when she had just lost her child, when she complains about something, Jaime just distracts her with kisses and sex and he doesn`t care that Cersei had lost her son). Their relationship is extremely unhealthy but Jaime is still one of the few people that Cersei loves. Tyrion even recounts that Cersei kissed him once only to make Jaime happy. Also, when Cersei kidnapped Alayaya she tells Tyrion that she would like to kill him but won`t do it because this would upset Jaime and he would never forgive her. Cersei is clearly the dominant partner in this relationship and Jaime is the submissive one. It was Cersei`s idea for Jaime to join the King`s Guard so that they may continue their relationship. She had three kids from Jaime because she didn`t want to carry her rapist`s kids. I don`t agree with the people who think that Cersei doesn`t love Jaime and only uses him and sees him as a tool - she slept with him throughout her entire marriage with Robert even though she didn`t get anything from it, she was worried about him when he got captured by the Starks and was angry with Tyrion for not releasing him, she was worried about him when she heard that he searching for Tyrion alone in the dark, she thinks a lot about him in aFFC and she even had a dream about him while imprisoned by the Faith. Cersei was always a little jelous of jaime because he was a male and she was not. Cersei thinks that she deserves to be praised by her father more than her twin. When Jaime came from his jorney changed, she could not get used to his changes and started pushing him away. Now it is too late for her to fix their relationship. Relationship with Joanna - Cersei was devastated by the death of her mother. She lost her female role model at the age of 7 and this caused a lot of psychological problems later on. Relationship with Robert - At first Cersei was excited about her marriage and tried to like Robert. However, when he started beating her, raping her and cheating on her, she started resenting him. This went on for 15 years and it ruined her mental health severely. She didn`t want to carry his child and aborted it. Then, when her affair with Jaime was threatened to be exposed, she manipulated Lancel into killing her husband. She didn`t care about his death and was actually glad that her abuser has finally died. Views on gender - Cersei resents her role as a woman. She recalls that when she and her twin changed clothes, people would treat them differently. Cersei was the eldest daughter of Tywin Lannister and the only reason why she couldn`t inherit the Rock was her gender - this drove her really crazy. She was taught to knit, prey and please by her septa but she wanted to fight with swords like her twin. When Robert started abusing her she had another reason to resent her position as a woman in Medieval society. If Cerseiwere born a male, she would have inherited the Rock and she wouldn`t have to suffer through marital rape and abuse from her husband. However, Cersei is very misogynistic herself - she doesn`t help other women who have it worse than her, she doesn`t care about other women getting raped and even thinks they enjoy it, she always calls other women 'hens', she always judges other women on their appearance, she thinks that Sansa should put up with Joffrey`s teatment etc. Cersei is a classic example of an internalized sexist. She thinks all women (with the exception of her) are stupid and doesn`t care about them. Cersei thinks that she should have been born a male because she lusts for power. However, she still takes advantage of her gender - she manipulates lancel and the Kettleblacks through sex, she rules the Seven Kingdoms as the Queen Regent through her sons etc. Prophecy - Cersei fears for the lives of her children and for herself because of the valonqar prophecy. Because of it, she is also paranoid about Tyrion, Margery and Sansa. However, I don`t believe that the 'younger, more beautiful queen' will be either Margery or Sansa. And I think that her valonqar will be Jaime because it would be very dramatic and sad - he is one of the few people she has ever loved. Lust for power - As any narcissist, she has an inferiority complex and needs power in order to feel secure. Cersei wants to prove to her father, to the others and to herself that she is capable of ruling despite being a woman (it is quite tragic if you think about it). However, she is not good at ruling and not because she is a woman but because she is too emotional, makes rash decisions and is too paranoid. She is obviously smart but not as smart as she thinks she is. Cersei doesn`t like feeling weak and despises weakness whenever she sees it. So, she wants to feel secure by acquiring more power. However, her obsession with power is very unhealthy and it will be her downfall. Relationship with her kids - Despite what many people in this forum say, Cersei genuinely loves her kids. However, she is not a good mother. Joffrey is obviously her favourite child. She spoiled him so much that he turned into an entitled brat who bullies everyone and has sadistic tendencies. When he died, Cersei is devastated by his death. She is becoming more and more paranoid about losing her remaining two kids. Cersei becomes emotionally abusive towards Tommen because she wants to 'toughen him up'. She wants to protect him from their enemies and doesn`t want to see him die like Joffrey. Cersei is not a good mother to Tommen but she genuinely believes that she is helping him. She sees his shyness as a weakness and she doesn`t tolerate weakness. However, with her actions Cersei only further undermines the confidence of her son without even realizing it. Relationship with Sansa - Cersei manipulated and used Sansa to try to stop the war. Cersei is also paranoid because she thinks that Sansa might be the 'younger, more beautiful queen' from her prophecy. She thinks that Sansa is too stupid and naive for this world. However, there are two scenes in aCoK when Cersei tries to 'educate' Sansa in her own way (after Sansa got her first moon blood and during the Battle of Blackwater). I think that Cersei felt a little bad for Sansa even if she doesn`t want to admit it. After all, their situations were similar - Sansa was disillusioned of Joffrey just like Cersei was disillusioned of Robert, they were both abused by her husbands etc. However, Cersei doesn`t tell her son to stop abusing Sansa. She simply tells Sansa that she should get used to it because the world is cruel. All in all, that is my interpretation of Cersei`s character. If you feel like I have missed something out or you don`t agree with my interpretation, please write in the comments. I really wish that more people would start appreciating Cersei`s complexity. I am not denying that she is an evil person but i think that GRRM wanted his readers to sympathize with Cersei. If this wasn`t the case, he wouldn`t have given her POV chapters. And I am sorry for playing the 'sexist card' again but some of the hate Cersei gets is really sexist. There are many people who don`t hate her for giving people to Qyburn, for ordering the deaths of innocent children, for murdering the high septon etc. but they instead hate her for cheating on Jaime, for cheating on her husband (who raped her), for aborting the child of her rapist, for sleeping around and 'behaving like a whore', for using sex to 'corrupt' the 'noble' and 'pure' Jaime Lannister etc. I am not saying that everyone who hates Cersei is sexist, because there are many legitimate reasons to hate her, but a large part of the people who hate her hate her for very sexist reasons.
  6. boltons are sick

    Top 5 most evil characters

    Most evil characters: 1) Ramsay Bolton 2) Gregor Clegane 3) Roose Bolton 4) Qyburn 5) Rorge
  7. boltons are sick

    Top 5 most evil characters

    Who are the top 5 most evil characters in Asoiaf in your opinion?
  8. boltons are sick

    Did Cersei really kill the twins and sell their mother into slavery?

    My point was that he was angry that Robert cheated on his daughter and decided to punish the whore that Robert slept with and her children. And I don`t know where people get this idea that Tywin is not spiteful and only pragmatic - he organized the gang rape of a 13-year old child because he was pissed that she had married Tyrion, he paraded Tytos` mistress through the streets of LP because he was pissed that she had influence over his father, he killed every last peasant and servant of the Reynes only because he was pissed at them, he sent Gregor Clegane against the Riverlands because he was pissed that Catelyn had kidnapped his son (he could have just written a letter to Robert), he killed Elia and her kids because he was pissed that Rhaeger didn`t marry his daughter, he treated Tyrion like crap because he was angry that he had 'killed' Joahanna, he pillaged King`s Landing for no reason at all, he tortured a singer to death only because he was pissed at something that the singer had said, he killed Masha Heddle and all the inhabitants of her village because he was pissed that they didn`t do anything to prevent the arrest of Tyrion... Tywin has positive traits, too, but he is a pretty spiteful person, in my opinion.
  9. boltons are sick

    Did Cersei really kill the twins and sell their mother into slavery?

    Yes, but Tywin could have felt offended by Robert cheating on his daughter. Also, tywin claims that he does all his evil deeds for the good of the house but there are many instances where he does evil things out of spite (the gang rape of Tysha, the Walk of Shame of Tytos` mistress). And I don`t think that at this point Cersei was afraid of exposure at the slightest.
  10. I was rereading aGoT and I stumbled upon this part where LF informs Ned that Cersei had killed 2 of Robert`s children and sold their mother into slavery because Robert slept with her when he was in Casterly Rock. However, the more I think about it, the more I am starting to realize that it was actually Tywin who did the deed. He was pissed off because Robert was cheating on his daughter. Let me explain why I think so. Firstly, I don`t believe that the queen has the power to do this in Casterly Rock. Tywin is the ruler of CR after all. He is the one giving orders. Secondly, Robert has over 16 children but only the ones in CR (where Tywin rules) were killed. Isn`t that a bit suspicious? If Cersei really killed those 2 boys, then why didn`t she also kill the other 14. I am sure that some of you will bring up as an argument that she killed those 2 bastards in aCoK but she did it only after her secret was threatened to be exposed and not out of malice. Their murder was for political reasons and she could have done it a lot earlier. Thirdly, LF is not the most trustworthy source. If you remember, he later tells Sansa that Tyrion had given Tysha to his guards for a gang rape which we all know is a lie. In aGoT, LF`s goal was to bring Ned`s attention to Robert`s bastards and to make him suspicious of Cersei. And LF tells that he had heard "rumors". So, what do you think? Did Cersei do it, did Tywin do it or did LF simply make this whole story up? I`d like to point out that I am not a "Cersei apologist" and I am not trying to vilify Tywin (who is a real badass). I am just trying to express my opinion and to make an interesting discussion.
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