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The Green Bard

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  1. @kissdbyfire I can see him ending up in the Wall. It was his father's dying wish, and Gilly could probably know that and tell it to him, if she's in the Cinnamon Wind on her way to Meeren. Another way to look at the quote is that she'll give Jorah the sword... through the heart, like Nissa Nissa. Of course, I don't find this likely. My point is, he may not be on a redemption arc. If he's not, then giving him a sword won't come to pass.
  2. I really think it would be pretty awesome if somehow Gendry/Tobho Mott (and Marwyn?) can help her to actually forge a sword for her to give Jorah. It would be pretty anticlimactic for Jon to hand her longclaw, only for her to hand it to Jorah. Somehow I think GRRM had something cooler in mind with this line.
  3. Cat said he was gone for a year. What was he doing the 6 months after breaking the siege? We don't know. But we do know that four loyal men helped Darry on Dragonstone sometime around then. Clearly, protecting Jon and the toll it put on his marriage was the bulk of that toll, but my point was that the toll is still being paid, (elsewise the language would be "to have kept them") Good thing nobody needs your permission to interpret a passage as they see fit. If you want to take a minimalist reading of it that's your interpretation. We're done here.
  4. As I've said before, we really don't know what those promises are. One might presume 1 was to take her body home and another to keep Jon safe, probably not to press his claim to the throne, but there could be any number of other promises or slight variations on those above that we simply don't know about or fully grasp. As I stated elsewhere in the thread, "keep Rhaegar's brother and sister safe from Robert" seems a reasonable enough and pertinent request, especially if she'd learned what happened to Elia and her children. Certainly she probably blames herself for the entire war at this point... Certainly that may have changed in Ned's mind given that the last he'd heard from Varys is that the birds had flown on the execution of Dany and her babe. That is one of the ideas that made B+A=J/R+L=D and a Starfall baby swap seem realistic to so many fans, because those theories make it patently obvious why Ned would be so bent out of shape about Dany. But in my idea here (with the help of @CamiloRP earlier in the thread) it can still be the case that R+L=J AND Ned was totally bent out of shape about Dany because of Lyanna's promise, and not just that he doesn't want children killed. Further, you keep saying that he considered them kept. That is not exactly what was stated in the text. The statement is about the price, the toll it had taken on him over 15 years of trying to keep them. The focus is not conclusive, it's about the rigor of an ongoing process; he was still paying the price of continuing to keep those promises.
  5. My general interpretation is pretty much the same, though the show confused me on first read (I watched season 1 before realizing there were books). To extend it a bit further, He then thought he'd made a deal with Varys to enable him to spend a great deal more time with Jon, only for... well Joffrey (and Littlefinger).
  6. That was a show-only thing. If you look elsewhere in the thread you'll see what I mean about what could change from when he thought of having kept his promises. Fact is though, we just don't know what those promises were, so we don't know how the events of the ensuing chapters changed whether they were still fulfilled by the time he was in the black cells.
  7. That was 6 chapter's earlier. A lot can change ... no ... a lot did change in the ensuing chapters.
  8. This I doubt, but don't discount completely. Allyria and Edric certainly are unreliable though, because they both would be too young (a presumption with Allyria) to have any first-hand knowledge, and secondhand knowledge of such secrets is questionable to say the least. One thing I do wonder is if Allyria is Ashara's daughter by Brandon.
  9. I've argued in another thread that she may have gone to Ned in the vale to try to get him and Robert to de-escalate, only to arrive too late, after Rickard and Brandon were already dead. This seem to me to be full in keeping with your idea that she wouldn't try to bring harm to him, quite the opposite IMHO. I agree that he'd already brought that upon himself.
  10. I'll grant only that he can't possibly tie up every loose end, though not that he didn't have a bit more of that story in his head when writing Dance. If unfinished, it would be, IMHO, that he just didn't have another opportunity to finish the thread later due to where the story flowed.
  11. Yes, certainly Lyanna could have asked him to protect Rhaegar's remaining family from Robert, not to just protect Jon. This is reasonable. While some have argued that it means she was Lyanna's daughter, this promise fits better what we know to be true. I would like clarity from the author on this. I'd have to say that Ashara and Howland could give us a bit of exposition as the story progresses and I hold out hope for that. Obviously Bran might as well, I suppose. I have my own tinfoil about Dany, lemongate, Dorne, etc. that doesn't require R+L=D. With Lyanna proven to be Jon's mom, R+L=D is not viable either given the SSM about their ages, but that doesn't mean that Dany did not spend a fair bit of time in Dorne, separate from Viserys, when she was a toddler. I mean Sam and Myrcella make trips to the Bravoosi coastline, then continue south to Dorne... with Myrcella it was for the specific reason of separating the heirs, which is exactly why a person who'd promised to protect them would do (like Luwin with Bran and Rickon). It really makes me want to know who the "four loyal men" were that helped Darry in the evacuation. I know who I want them to be, but that doesn't make it so.... Yes, I agree with your approach here. To take it as fact and build upon something makes it a house of cards. But to come up with an idea and test it, with full understanding that it is a stretch... that's just imagination. When the author leaves things to our imagination, this makes it fun. It's why I am in this thread actually... with working on my own content, I don't have the time to explore every thread like I used to. A complete red herring doesn't feel like his style. I think his stuff is mostly tied together, especially the later books, which is why it takes him so long to write them. I wish I had more to go on, but my conjecture, mostly based upon the SSM that she wasn't nailed to the floor, is that she took it upon herself to deliver messages in the hopes of making peace. Also, her actions at Harrenhal could be suggestive that she was passing messages along to her dance partners. I can easily see her being in KL, seeing the mess Rhaegar and Brandon created (two men she might have romantic feelings for and may have spoken to and gotten the messages from), and taking it upon herself to go to Ned and Robert in the Vale to try to de-escalate. Like I've said before, if that was her aim, she must have arrived too late. I also love the idea (my own idea, I think) that she was the person Rhaegar was looking at in Dany's HotUD vision where he says: Of course, next to Lyanna, Ashara with her Dayne genes (think Dyanna Dayne, Egg's mom), would be a great candidate to bear such a child, but couldn't do so if she were already pregnant. Thx! Yeah, I've had those thoughts for a while.
  12. I am never going to buy an argument that the broken promises he dreamed of were completely unrelated to Lyanna. Yes, I am well aware of his promise to Barra. He also promised Cat it wouldn't come to war, and he promised Robert that he'd eat the boar. None of those promises come up again. There is also certainly Littlefinger's promise to keep Ned safe, which Ned certainly would consider to be broken, though I'd imagine Littlefinger would say he tried to keep it but Ned wouldn't listen to reason. However, "Promise me, Ned" comes up eight times in his inner monologue throughout the book. He felt he'd broken something about those promises; I believe we as a fandom just still haven't figured out what yet. Further, in that same chapter he thinks this: I would say that something in that sorrow and/or those unsaid words is also related to this. The proximity in the text certainly makes it relevant.
  13. Because she's the only character that fits, unless it was actually a fisherman's daughter, which is a pointless tangent that I don't think likely. Can you name a better candidate? Well, It is certainly possible that Ned had a thing for her as well, but if Brandon got there first, there would be a lot of bitterness in Ned ... and there is bitterness there. Thing is Brandon clearly did not know what to do, so was Ned thinking a few unsaid things about Brandon here? George cleverly has this done in Cat's POV, so we really have no much to go on, but repeating his name 3 times in rapid succession to me sounds like an alternative to expletives (I imagine the word motherfucker to be in there, but it's really up to your own creativity. All signs point to Brandon being a loaded cannon that might do anything. Certainly he had no idea what he was doing when he entered King's Landing. Who knows what the bitterness to Brandon means, but it might be more than sour grapes that he got stuck being Lord. Thing is, being lord prevents him from seeking his own prospects in marriage, for sure. Maybe it's very connected to your question. George was laying out the clues about Ashara in Cat's inner monologue in that same chapter (AGoT Cat II). I know your were on the Jaqen =Aegon thing, but tyring to bing it a bit more back on topic, I think where Ashara Dayne is concerned we should expect a bit of creativity because: A) We know so little about where she was except at Harrenhal and then that last stint at Starfall, where she supposedly dies. In between is a completely blank page, which I assume will get filled in a bit more in Winds, but never completely. B) George actually encourages this by telling us that she wasn't nailed to the floor. It invites speculation. Some of that speculation will be wrong in the end, but I don't see that it makes this fandom any better to completely snuff out unlikely ideas just because they are unlikely. Well, I think we need to be realistic. B+A=J is proven false by George's blog posts. At this point, it is inherently not a better theory than R+L=J. Definitely a love triangle is in GRRM's wheelhouse. That doesn't mean that there aren't problems with the write-ups of R+L=J. I still want to know what Ned's "broken promises are, for instance. If R+L=J, my interpretation would be that he kept his promises, but this is a pretty small weakness given the rest of the stuff that checks out in the theory. Are you suggesting that Mance = Arthur (which I am fond of), and thus A+L=J? I suppose he is the only other person (save for Whent) who had an opportunity to be the father, but there is very little to make that a better theory than R+L=J. TBH, I think B+A=J a much better theory than A+L=J.
  14. I don't. Alyssa Targaryen had 1 green eye and 1 purple.
  15. Funny thing is, that is one of the few plausible things in that theory, that Ashara was "the fisherman's daughter." However, it jumps the shark to suggest that they married. It's completely out of left field. By my view, if Ashara ever had carnal knowledge of a Stark, it was Brandon, which I think is the main thrust of @Alyn Oakenfist original point. If Ashara did go to Ned, it was on a diplomatic mission; she'd be going of her own accord on behalf of Brandon or Rhaegar, not just for sexy time with Ned, because FTW, lol. Obviously if my guess there is right, she arrived at the vale too late, Brandon and Rickard were already dead. Any further travel she did with Ned was simply because there was a battle in Gulltown and that path home would be closed to her. White Harbor is the obvious next choice for her voyage home, with her own silver. Ned di leave her with a bag of silver and a baby in his belly... it's just that neither were his. But TOotGH just use that idea as a stepping stone to their predetermined conclusion, kinda ruining the validity of the rest of the analysis.
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