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Davidlopan

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  1. I agree. It was the sudden heavy-handed moralism that I found surprising
  2. It was the terrible storytelling, and the sudden attempt to make this a morality tale, that I found insulting (and surprising!). I'm a huge fan of rug-pulling and revelation, if handled competently in a story and built into the fabric of the drama, but the need to use Tyrion to awkwardly point out why we need to revise our opinion of Dany was pretty cheap
  3. Fair enough, but I thought I was enjoying a Tall Tale... This sudden coercive attempt to examine one's conscience and make a subsequent Act of Contrition just felt insulting. It certainly subverted expectations though
  4. Davidlopan

    The Ending Was very conventional

    That's what I was thinking. It feels very Leto Atreides doesn't it? So Westeros is essentiality now a police state under the lidless Eye
  5. When he said that to Jon, I was waiting for some sinister minor notes in the background music, a sudden blue glint in his eyes, and then some monologuing: BRAN: Marvellous creatures, dragons, aren't they? Do you think that miserable oaf Ned would've sent you to the Wall if I hadn't suggested it? Do you think Patchface would've told Dany to open the egg underwater if I hadn't told him first myself? Do you think Samwell Tarly, the witless wonder, could've provided you with your true parentage if I hadn't given him the book that led him straight to it? Huh?!? JON: It was you from the beginning. You put my name in the Goblet of Ice and Fire. You bewitched Tyrion, but… BRAN: "But but..." You won because l made it so, Jon. You ended up in the Red Keep today because it was meant to be so. And now the deed is done. The blood that runs through your veins will end forever. Imagine how the Great Other will reward me when he learns that I have once and for all destroyed the Targaryens. Yes, Jon, you were exactly where you needed to be..."
  6. That was the problem for me... they sacrificed actual drama for the most boring moralistic finger-wagging (in a show that had pretty much descended into soap-opera). Character consistency, internal plausibility and all sense of dramatic satisfaction were rejected in favour of some sententious rhetoric. It’s insulting
  7. And it looks very possible that Jon is the figure in whom the dangerous extremes of ice (the Others) and fire (Dany, dragons) are transcended/resolved, which is not just trope-y but downright cliched
  8. Davidlopan

    Have people given up all hope?

    I'm still holding out one last naive hope, though much of the damage seems admittedly irreperable. Let's face it, Season 8 has been a litany of dashed hopes... Jon, the resurrected Prince who was Promised and heir to the Iron Throne, suddenly has the dramatic vitality of a melted flip-flop. Tyrion, like the dampest of damp squibs, went from being professor of cunning to naive rookie. Sansa has died and been pickled in a vat of sneer. Jaime's seasons-long redemption arc has done a medal-worthy backflip in one episode. Dany apparently has a Hulk side we were never told about, and the Dragons provided no major dramatic function other than being the means whereby the wall came down/KL was torched. The valonqar? A piece of falling masonry... The attempts at levity and the crowbarred-in sex scenes from episodes 1 to 4 were jarring at best and almost unwatchably embarrassing at worst… And the sudden cheap sentimentality... 'I don't want to die...Look at me!' 'Sandor, thankyou...' I'm struggling to think of any redeeming features...
  9. Davidlopan

    Unpopular opinion

    The dialogue especially has taken a kamikaze nose-dive over the last few seasons, but it's hard know where to apportion ultimate blame. The lack of source material is the obvious main culprit. But in fairness to D&D they were left with almost impossible balancing act: negotiating the narrative consequences of the dragons… Gloriously badass though they are, GRRM made them so powerful that D&D had to perform a veritable Cirque du Soleil of dramatic contortions, including the butchery of Tyrion's character, to somehow keep Dany off the throne for this long. It all felt so horribly skewed, right up to the cloaking technology Euron employed to sneak up on Rhaegal, and then Drogon suddenly developing ninja dodging powers cos they need him alive to blowtorch the city
  10. Yep, it's soap-opera randomness I'm still holding out a gullible hope that they'll somehow make a silk purse out of this sow's ear, but there's doubtless fresh travesties awaiting us in the final episode. GRRM will hopefully make all this feel warranted, if it's indeed the direction the books are going in, but just... ugh... I've an inkling GOT will eventually provide a euphemism (like 'pulling a Lost') for flouting expectations to the point of dramatic suicide, or simply for outstanding disappointment at the eleventh hour
  11. With trope subversion and pulling the rug, I always think the proof’s in the pudding. I could have swallowed the Others not being the endgame boss if the alternative was made to feel dramatically satisfying and inevitable, but it's been such a soul-crushing letdown (and totally implausible by the internal logic of the series). Ned's death and the RW were unexpected and shocking, but there was at least a sense of inevitability about them, both believable consequences of Ned's and Robb's choices and the machinations of Joffrey, Littlefinger and the Boltons/Freys. And they spurred the plot forward in various fertile ways. To say that Batshit Dany feels like a wrench would be an understatement. And what's the dramatic pay-off, other than shock value? It's so jarring that I'm wondering (and I notice several others are wondering the same thing): is Bran warging her all of a sudden, for some dastardly reason that we'll discover next episode? It's the only scenario that might wrest some internal sense from this, unless they’re actually gunning for a Polanski-type ending where one's horrified disillusionment/disappointment is part of the desired effect? 'Forget it Jon, it's Westeros...'? Mother of fuck... Really??!!
  12. Davidlopan

    Protagonist suddenly goes crazy in last chapter of epic

    Long term lurker who's feeling the need for some talk therapy. Couldn't agree more with the OP. It feels like the story has been deliberately sabotaged... the fake leaks were way better than this. After living with these characters and watching them struggle and grow over the years, what an absolute betrayal Dany's arc had already been ruined (same goes for Tyrion, Sansa, Jaime, Varys, Jon, Bran, for different reasons) but this is character assassination worthy of the Faceless Men I remember reading a few of the Dany-will-go-crazy-and-be-the-main-antagonist threads years ago and being surprised that people were actually itching for this. The takeover of Meereen was a major source of debate I recall... She was accused of being a war-criminal cos there were probably innocent people killed too. To extend a Star Wars analogy someone used above (spoilers ahead if you haven't seen the saga): it's like calling Luke Skywalker a war-criminal cos there were thousands of innocent people who died on the original Death Star. But even if we read Dany's previous actions in the most negative possible light... Can you imagine Return of the Jedi ending like this: The Emperor: Fulfill your destiny, and take your father's place at my side Luke: Erm... yeah, OK... But you gotta promise to turn the laser at Endor and kill all those fluffy little teddybears right now Ok, this would certainly have subverted expectations and there was indeed some dramatic preparation for it if you'd squinted your eyes (‘His hate making him powerful. He was a sociopath all along and his lack of remorse at destroying the Death Star proves it. He flies off the handle so easily, especially when you threaten his loved ones. It's in his blood, considering who his father is. And the cave. Remember his failure at the cave!') But C'monnnn! How monumentally egregious would that have been?! It would have made the whole saga feel like a protracted con and left the bitterest of bitter tastes in the mouth. The Last Jedi gave a vague approximation of what this might have felt like And this is pretty much what GOT has opted for. I'm all for unexpected twists, but there's a point at which subverting expectations just becomes awful storytelling, and GOT has crossed that Rubicon in spectacular fashion. Ok, it was clearly never a Manichaean fairytale like Star Wars (though the extent to which it subverts tropes has been wildly exaggerated) but this isn't moral nuance or gritty realism or Greek Tragedy we're being offered, this is cardboard nihilism of the soap-opera kind, a fantasy version of the Christmas episode of Eastenders. All internal logic and character consistency have been chucked out the window. What a terrible shame
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