Lord Aegon The Compromiser

I'd just like to point out that GRRM never confirms Lyanna is Jon's mother in Book Canon. We have this from D&D: http://www.businessinsider.com/the-game-of-thrones-writers-had-to-answer-this-trick-question-2015-4 This from GRRM: All this confirms is that GRRM asked D&D who Jon's mother was and they gave the correct answer. This does not mean that it confirms Lyanna as book canon as Jon's mother, it doesn't even mention her name. Do we need to list all the known differences between the show and the books? Just because Lyanna is Jon's mother in the Show, doesn't mean it is 100% certain she will be in the Book. It also doesn't confirm RLJ. The father is never mentioned, neither is Rhaegar's name. I felt the need to point these two facts out as it seems most people all over the internet mistakenly take it for granted that GRRM both confirmed Lyanna as Jon's mother and confirmed RLJ. Neither is true. Regardless of the theory, ASOIAF theory crafters should do their best to base their theories as solidly in Book Canon as possible. Otherwise all they're doing is putting duct tape on a snowman.

True, Bran could be King of Winter, King of the North, or more symbolically, forever infused in his Weirwood Throne.

Thank you very much for this link. I read every part (I'm now reading the Jon essays). Of the Meereen essays, Part IV in particular is a must read for anyone thinking "Mad Queen Dany" (not burning KL specifically, but her burning thousands and thousands of innocents with her dragons, for sure) isn't already well foreshadowed in the books.

We can certainly debate the timeline if you want. Though I imagine unless we relate it to the topic, debating RLJ probably isn't appropriate for this thread. Edit: Re-reading your post, I am certainly interested in you backing up your assertion that only Rhaegar can be the father, that Lyanna and Rhaegar had sex and had a baby, her length of stay in the TOJ, etc with book canon. It's been awhile so maybe my memory is failing me, but is there any book canon outside of Ned's fever dream that places Lyanna in the TOJ? We can PM or start a new thread, for sure though.

I agree it's entirely possible that he could accept being King. Though I'll note that after killing Dany, show Jon could have announced himself as either King Jon or King Aegon. It's possible for him to be King in book without ever revealing his identity as Aegon Targaryen (if it is true in book). Edit: I agree with your "living with the Wildlings" comment.

What Stark or legitimized Stark would Sansa marry?

My biggest reason for being in this thread, though, has been to read what others think about how Arya's and Jon's stories will continue book wise. With the show ending being possible clues. I'm just starting a new reread, but I'm beginning to think it more likely Arya will die fighting rather than ever sailing west of Westeros. Though I loved that show ending for her. It would be a great spin off to watch and if she does survive ASOIAF, I hope to read of her adventures in a sequel series. I think D&D abandoned her real storyline to get her to Westeros with everyone else. It's then difficult to guess what is book canon and what isn't. Jon I think is far more complex. We don't even know if he actually dies in book. Though it's likely, sure. But what happens if we rejoin him in book? I'm not sure how much the show helped us, with all the missing book characters, much of post resurrection Show Jon could be (and seems likely to me) borrowed from what other characters (such as Aegon) will do in book. I mean stuff like the Battle of the Bastards is obviously going to be different in book (Stannis is still alive and is in what we could call Show Jon's place). Those that ignore all the obvious, known differences between Book and Show and believe that every character's story arc played out/ended the same way as it will in book are going to be sorely disappointed . You are going to regret letting yourself believe inaccurate things like 1. GRRM supposedly saying the show is 97% accurate to how the books would play out 2. GRRM supposedly confirming RLJ when he didn't even mention the father (seriously, that's a HUGE leap) instead of continuing to craft your theories while waiting on the books. So...what does happen? No idea currently. Other than I do like the idea of him ending up with the Wildlings north of the Wall. He's never wanted to be King. I don't feel he will ever want to be King of Westeros. Plus in book, whether RLJ is correct or not (yes, it is in question) how is he going to find out? What will convince him? Who will believe him when he looks nothing like Rhaegar? We aren't even 100% sure Dany will end up in Westeros. Let alone Jon teaming up with (and falling in love with) her. I would love to read what from book canon makes Jon and Dany's story seem likely to play out the way it does on the show. Rickon is still alive in book (AFAWK) to be Lord of Winterfell or King In The North. With someone as Regent since he be like 9 I suppose. I feel like GRRM will deviat from the show enough to actually allow House Stark to continue (was this a show oversight or a GRRM-esque bittersweet ending?) What does Jon do if he doesn't want to be King or Lord? The answer probably isn't "be King or Lord". Good thing I'm doing a reread because I'd like better answers as to what he will do during the rest of ASOIAF and what he might like to do post ASOIAF, if he survives of course.

Thank you very much. Jon Snow's father is unconfirmed. So it's highly irresponsible to go around claiming GRRM confirmed RLJ, ever, when either smiling at an answer about the mother or confirming D&D guessed the mother correctly. All it confirms is that (unknown)+L=J is book canon. Which is a great step in the right direction! All we need to do is figure out the father! *unless of course there is a quote out there of GRRM confirming the father* It seems TWOW is about a year away, hopefully we get an answer!

Holy crap.

Good thing Mance has always been here to wreck other people's plans!

Input is always appreciated! That I believe is the point, we all have input and in that way we develop the best theories! Based on this new info I was wrong in the end. They did guess it correctly. Though it wasn't confirmed until 2 weeks ago, in this post you referenced: http://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2019/05/20/an-ending/ Still, in in neither case does GRRM mention the father. The father isn't confirmed either time, isn't even mentioned. I hope to be proven wrong, but without a quote about the father, neither confirms RLJ, they only confirm (unknown)+L=J. Unless there's a quote from GRRM confirming the father, it is a lie to say that he confirmed RLJ either time and therefore it would be highly erroneous to have any theories that take RLJ for granted, since we do not know the father for a certainty. I then feel it is best to entertain other possibilities. Wouldn't you be upset with yourself if you spent years thinking you were correct but you ended up being wrong? Even though now all you need to figure out is the father, but instead of continuing to theorize, you kept telling yourself it had to be Rhaegar. Again, this is without even making a claim on RLJ either way . It's simply a statement on theory crafting. You foundation must be as sound as possible.

Thank you. Considering the season, they probably overlooked this, sadly.

1. You made fun of me, I'm confused as to why. 2. You seem to claim George had them put RLJ in the show. Is there a quote from George that directly confirms he told them to put RLJ specifically into the show? 3. You claim that GRRM asking them who Jon's mother was and then smiling without saying yes or no confirms that they correctly guessed both Jon's mother and father. Even though father is never mentioned, the name of the mother is never confirmed and whether they were correct or not is never confirmed. 4. Your claim that RLJ will be in the books is a theory, it is not book canon. Anything else is fan fiction. 5. You then seem to for some reason claim that I'd have to be confused and willfully disbelieve reality to not believe RLJ...even though all I said was George didn't confirm RLJ in the interview. He asked who the mother was, they answered. He didn't even confirm if they were right or not. 6. You keep not actually naming what you are referencing. Do you mean to say RLJ was a super critical plot point for the show and the entire endgame hung on it? At no point was it ever central in 8 seasons of the show except the very end where it's only function seemed to be to trigger Dany into becoming Mad Queen Dany. 7. Are you claiming the entire show would be meaningless without RLJ? 8. Can you get me a quote on GRRM saying all the characters in the books end up in the same place as the show? 9. You are guessing that the show won't change the endgame. That isn't book canon. That's just your guess. 10. Martin didn't say the show was 97% accurate. He said it's "extremely faithful, compared to 97%" George R.R. Martin: The series has-- has-- been extremely faithful, compared to 97 percent of all television and movie adaptations of literary properties. But it's not completely faithful. And-- and it can't be. Otherwise, it would have to run another five seasons. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-will-george-rr-martin-final-game-of-thrones-books-end-60-minutes-2019-04-15/ 11. Somehow you use all this as proof of RLJ as book canon, yet claim that I'm drinking the Kool Aid. I really don't understand the hostility towards someone simply pointing out that GRRM didn't confirm RLJ by asking D&D who Jon's mother is and then only smiling at their answer. But here we are, with a laundry list of stuff you pretend is real to support RLJ as book canon, even though I never even claimed whether RLJ was book canon or not. Now do you understand why my original reply was simply to say nothing you said was true? Because once you break it down, literally everything you said is either something you made up or a theory you take for granted as book canon. Yet you have the audacity to make fun of someone for pointing out simple realities (GRRM didn't confirm RLJ by asking about only the mother and then only smiling without even saying if their guess was correct). You should be ashamed of yourself.

You didn't answer my question.

Literally none of what you said is true. You are living in your own fantasy head canon. You can't just make up how a meeting went and say that makes a theory book canon. That's not how reality works.

Now this is a Dany book story I'd like to read!

What text from the books makes you think Jon will "Nissa Nissa" Dany?

I'm confused. Didn't Bloodraven/3EC die in the show? Also I don't recall if it was confirmed or not that the show 3EC is Bloodraven.

Great point. There wasn't a body. Why would Jon and Co even accept the accusation that he killed Dany?

Clearly Jon doesn't want to be King of anything. If he did he could have pressed his claim after killing Dany. Hell at that point he was King Jon Snow, he didn't even have to reveal his secret identity. Sansa and Co should have been saying "You have our King as prisoner, we demand you release him". Instead Jon did nothing but possibly allow himself to be captured, then kept his mouth shut and took the exile.

As someone that would love this ending for Arya, is there anything from the books that made you think Arya The Explorer would happen?

D&D didn't even try with this ending. It makes zero sense that Jon and Co would honor the agreement. Grey Worm and the Unsullied just left to Naath for... forever. They'd never know.

Bran can't have kids, Jon can't have kids named Stark and well neither can Arya or Sansa. This to me might be the loudest BS alarm for trying to compare the show ending to how the books will end...if none of the 4 surviving Starks can have Stark children...it ends up being about the Starks vanishing.

Basically, yes.

Poisonous butterflies? I must have missed this.