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  1. The calculation guidelines say that the "12 years old at birth of first born child" rule is based on 12 being the earliest age fit for marriage and consummation, and thus pregnancy and birth. Does this mean that if we have a consummation or conception date, we should be using that instead of the first born birth date in calculations? Osric Umber for example: he died 226 at latest; his child was thus born 227 at latest; 227 minus 12 gives 215 as Osric's maximum birth year. But if 12 was also for conception, which couldn't have occurred after his 226 death, his maximum birth year would instead be 214. I know it only affects a small handful of characters (Osric, Robard Cerwyn and maybe Sara Snow offhand), but if I could get a ruling on this?
  2. So is it okay to delete and rewrite the entry with more verifiable facts and numbers? Do I need to leave some mention of the prior calculation if I do? What's the etiquette for situations like this?
  3. A question regarding the Ronnel Arryn (son of Jasper) calculation: it says his son Elbert was a knight when he died, but I can't find anything to support that. Was it a mistake, or am I just having a blind moment?
  4. Just to clarify, definitely past tense? Or am I reading too much into that. (Thought I better check first before adding death calculation for him.)
  5. Huh. No, I didn't. (Not gonna lie, now a little embarrassed for doubting the info.)
  6. Thanks for clarifying! And I'm really jealous. So much interesting new information. Like this for example: This is really useful actually, because I can use to pin down a maximum years of death for Umber and Sansa. I only have two queries. First, does the info you have on the tree also mention whether Brandon (Cregan's son) had his affair with Wylla before or after he married Alys Karstark? Second, for whoever might have the answer: how do I reference this email of George's in calculations? Is there a copy of it posted online somewhere to link to, or if not, is okay to just reference the applicable forum comment above?
  7. Do you have some sort of evidence for that? Cause like I mentioned in the above post (sorry for double-posting btw), the calculation page only references the stark lineage tree, which doesn't work.
  8. Okay, so I went ahead and put in Lyarra's death range, and calculated Beron's birth range. The latter of which had kind of a huge domino effect, leading to edits/additions for a lot of others. If it helps, the calculation only references the Stark Lineage family tree. Admittedly it places Lyanne Glover first, visually (as in the marriage line is higher up), but it also places Eddard's thing with Jon's mother higher even though it happened after he married Catelyn (it did happen after, right?), so I don't think that counts as solid evidence. On a different topic, and sorry if this isn't the right place for it: when entering a date range in a character's infobox, do we do the {{Date|xxx|xxx}} thing so it reads as "In xxx–xxx AC", or keep the dates separate so it reads as "In or between xxx AC and xxx AC". Is there a rule for this?
  9. I've some question about the Brandon Stark (son of Willam) age calculations. It says "Brandon had two younger half-siblings". Do we know for sure that they're younger? Because his father's (Willam Stark's) page says "It is unknown which of the two marriages occurred first". If we've confirmation that Brandon's mother was the first wife, Willam's page needs some editing. If we don't have confirmation, Brandon's d.o.b. should be "in or before 227" (based on a similar calculation to his half-sister Jocelyn), and also his death (based on his dying at age 3) needs to be pushed back a year. Shifting topics: Beron Stark. He was mortally wounded in his 30's. My first instinct is to say he therefore died aged 30-39, but since he's said to be "fading fast", not necessarily dead, should we allow for the possibility he lingered long enough to reach his next birthday? So, died aged 30-40? Is this reasonable? (Because I can use his age range and death dates to calculate a birth range, but I need to settle on a maximum death age first.) Also, per an SSM, Lyarra Stark (Ned's mother) is dead. Can we pin a maximum death date from that? The interview was pre-AsoS (which is pre-300), so I'm inclined to say she died in or before 299, but I'm not sure of the rules on this one. Second opinion would be appreciated.
  10. Was a little confused, then figured out you meant the crosses in the boxes. (Presumably? Correct me if I'm wrong.) In which case yes, those are kings. They're not on the key because I forgot they were there. Only added them in for my own curiosity, and forgot to disable their appearance before copying the tree. (That said, I've actually done up a html version of the tree I may get around to posting at some point, where I've replaced crosses with little white crowns, which are much more self-explanatory.) Thanks! Was a lot of fun to put together (if daunting at times).
  11. LINK FIX (I hope (let me know if not)): For PC: the original link works fine. For tablet: It's too big to display properly or something. Your options are... 1. Download the imgur app. It works then. 2. Use the dropbox link. It seems to display fine on tablet in the browser.
  12. I do wonder if it's a tablet issue. I'm on PC. Anyone else having trouble also on tablet? Or a 'tablet in conjunction with browser' issue? Can I ask, did you try downloading the image and viewing? Or the dropbox link? (This is very frustrating.)
  13. Here's a dropbox link. That any better?
  14. That's bizarre. It opens fine for me. It's zoomed out to fit the window because it's very big, so I have to click it to zoom in, if that helps. If your browser won't display it, maybe save and open in your preferred image viewing program. Or you can download from here and do the same. Is anyone else having this problem?
  15. So, I did a thing. A gigantic AsoIaF family tree thing. (There's also a key/legend/whatever. Feel free to ask if you're still confused.) (NOTE: Apparently the pic doesn't display well on in browsers on tablet, so either view with the imgur app, or use this dropbox link instead. I should hopefully work.) Yeah, I know it's been done before but... Some backstory: A while ago (last year? the year before?) I was mucking around with fictional family tree making. I started with Harry Potter, followed by P&P, and hobbits occupied me for a while. Then I decided to try something even more ambitious: AsoIaF. A little googling for picture references to get started (I was looking for the 'The World of Ice & Fire' appendix lineages) and I stumbled over El-Daddy's tree. (If you're interested, and you should be, google "El-Daddy's AsoIaF tree" and you'll probably find it. It's on this forum. Also reddit?) Anyway, it was basically exactly what I was going to do. Even with the same software. My interest sort of fizzled. It had already been done (and was awesome) so why bother. But time passed and I noted some things I'd do differently, more than a few people and families I'd add in. And my OCD decided it would be lovely if the individuals were all kinda evenly spaced? So yeah, I did the thing. I had mercy on myself and limited it a bit. I started with contemporary members of the Great Houses of each region of Westeros, plus the Targaryens. From there, I included anyone I could connect via known kinship, be it parent, child, sibling, cousin, spouse, or an non-married relationship if I thought it was significant enough. (Though do note that 'cousin' doesn't necessarily mean first cousin.) The 'Wiki of Ice and Fire' was an invaluable resource. Full credit goes to the aforementioned El-Daddy's tree for the idea of colour-coding individuals by region. Because visually it's really helpful, so I stole-- ahem, borrowed the idea. (I really hope they aren't mad. At that specifically, and my picking up the family tree idea in general.) I changed the Targaryens/Crownlands to purple though, because it was too similar to the Westerlands red. And for some reason my brain tells me purple is a royal colour? *shrugs* Also, since I stole purple away, there was only one option left for Essos and other foreigners... which is why Khal Drogo of all people is in baby pink. So yeah. What do you think? Feel free to let me know if you see any mistakes, be it in spelling, colour, family links, nicknames, people omitted... With a tree this big, human error has almost certainly entered into it somewhere. Probably multiple times. (Also, If you're a Chrome user and the pic's kinda... jagged? Try zooming out twice. It works for me.)
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