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Alex200

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  1. Alex200

    What was the purpose of Jon Snow?

    That is blatantly untrue. Your dislike of Dany makes you not able to see things objectively. So there is no point to furthering this conversation.
  2. Alex200

    What was the purpose of Jon Snow?

    I don't agree with that. The Lannisters won against the Starks before and the rest of the North did submit to the KL rule under the Boltons. So much that the majority of the North, tired of defeat and war, did not side with Jon/Sansa for the battle of the Bastards. Without Dany in the picture, a weakened North after the battle with the dead would not be tough to conquer. Secondly, Dany pardoned the man that stabbed her father in the back, she offered for a truce to battle the dead, so it would be reasonable had Cersei agreed to surrender that she would have been allowed to live. I am not going argue whether Cersei was dumb or smart.... but the problem is the story itself validates Cersei's perspective as the most valid option for keeping power. Had she been able to kill Drogon as easily as she killed Rheagal then she most likely would have won. I don't know if that would have been the practical moment for her though with the upcoming battle of the dead coming up. She needed Jon's military expertise for that. I like Sansa but I personally think she was working her way towards taking control of Winterfell in all but name. And name would probably have come. At the end of the story they didn't give us a good reason for why Jon wasn't chosen as King in the North after the unsullied evacuated the capital. As for the trust aspect.. she deliberately went against her promise to him. Also Dany, after knowing Jon had a claim could have allowed him to die in the battle instead of saving his life twice at personal risk to her. Also at the very end she did offer to rule with him together. Jon is something to Varys because he is more easily controllable. The question is why should Dany accept that being male is more important? She has the power to assert her claim. Also Jon has previously swore an oath to serve her as Queen. So the usurper argument is outlandish. She told him to keep quiet because he didn't want it anyways and it would make a mess of things (did make a mess of things) to tell his family. Sansa betrayed Jon. So you say Sansa wouldn't usurp Jon's throne.. I don't buy it.. she usurped her own brother's kingdom. Bran as a true born Stark male is the rightful king of the North and yet she refused his regency because he was also ruling the other kingdoms. The way the story was written.. its far more likely that Sansa was working her way towards an independent North with herself as Queen. But that just shows you the type of relationship they had. He put a blade against his pregnant sister's belly. Out of curiosity, have you read the books? Because they make it quite clear that he is cruel and abusive towards her. Again its a time frame thing.. Sansa had to experience at best a few years of Joffrey and Ramsey. But Dany had been going through crap since she was born. But after the Northern forces and the vale were decimated what kind of army would Jon be left with? Who else would join them. A war hero for one side is the villain of the other. And really what kind of war hero was he? He lost the battle of the bastards due his poor emotional decision at the beginning. He hadn't contributed to the Long Night meaningfully. If the Tyrells didn't want Dany, why would they want a different Targ? He may be raised in Westeros.. but he was a northerner which they make clear is very different from the rest of the regions (like Scotland vs England). He is also an oath breaker for the rest of the country as he swore himself to the Nightswatch. Who would believe he died and came back to life? Also he hasn't technically taken his last breath. Look they wrote what they did.... my honest answer is that I just don't buy how they wrote this season. Tormund slapping Jon on the back for riding a dragon? Tormund was saved by Dany last season and rode a dragon before Jon. Jon himself contributed very little to the long night. If Dany was so unpopular people would be turning against Jon for bending the knee to her to begin with. Jon would have very little support in the North or the rest of the country. Even at the end the iron islands, Dorne and the Reach would support Dany hence why Jon needed to be punished. Btw Tyrion didn't turn away from Dany like Varys did initially.. he actually ratted out Varys. Like Tyrion said.. half would hate Tyrion because he supported Dany and the other half because he betrayed her. The same would have held true for Jon.
  3. Alex200

    What was the purpose of Jon Snow?

    The inheritance also depends on what the lord decides - like how Tywin refused to acknowledge Tyrion's claim to the Rock. Also the Targ succession laws are not so clear cut and they aren't always followed. I mean technically Viserys should have been made king after Robert's rebellion. Its basically who has the power to force their claim. In dance of the dragons, Rhaenyra was made the heir over her brother by her father. Yet Aegon II fought against it.
  4. Alex200

    What was the purpose of Jon Snow?

    Except Cersei didn't care about that so why should Dany? She could have waited to see if the North could deal with it.. gained more power by conquering the south and seeing if the North could have finished them off. The south also has several bodies of water and the dead can't swim so it would be much tougher for the dead to conquer the South. And Dany also had the advantage of being able to go back to Essos if they lose Westeros. There was no real tactical advantage for Dany to preempt a fight with the dead before necessary (especially before she conquered KL) other than it was the right thing to do. If I were Sansa I would be grateful that someone marched up North to try to help us while we are under attack. I certainly wouldn't have given them attitude over having to feed them when they have come to help as per the request of the King of the North. This wasn't the first time Sansa undermined Jon's authority. I don't mind Sansa doing that to be honest.. but if you want to have a go at Dany for saying she took Jon's right.. I don't think Sansa is entirely innocent of that either. But you always have to look where the information is coming from. Varys in this situation is biased because he prefers Jon to be King (because 'cocks are important')... so he is going to say as such. But the fact is that Aerys made Viserys the heir after Rhaegar's death bypassing Rhaegar's kids. So the line of succession is not clear cut. That's why Dany said Jon is the last male heir not.. that he is the heir. My impression he is that he was as bad if not worse than Joffrey. He told her he would be happy to let all the Dothraki and horses rape her if he had too. He also definitely used to abuse her. And then like you said she was married off to a Dothraki warlord against her will and raped. She had it far worse than Sansa. Sansa had a great childhood.. she only suffered after she went to KL. But even in KL she was relatively safe due to her status as a political prisoner. Tyrion never raped her. Then she was once again protected in the Vale. Now Ramsey was awful for sure. But given the timespan Dany has had to deal with people attempting to murder her since she was a baby. I don't think you can discount Dany's suffering. Out of all of them she is the one that had it the worst as she had never even known safety and peace. Whereas all the Stark kids had solid childhoods up to the point where the story picks them up. Given that Jon could barely convince the North to help them reclaim Winterfell.. and that the North and the Vale had suffered serious losses in the Long Night.. I don't buy that it would be easy for Jon to capture KL. Stannis with his army at full force wasn't able to. Plus who would believe that a bastard of Ned Starks is suddenly the last Targ. Not to mention that many would see him as a breaker of his oath to the Night's watch. I am going to be honest with you .. the problem I have is that the story in this last season is not coherently written. The sequence of events they wrote for Dany before all this would not make it likely that Jon would be able to conquer KL on his own.
  5. Alex200

    What was the purpose of Jon Snow?

    Dany has experienced far worse. Dany grew up on the run never knowing parents with an abusive brother. While Sansa had an amazing childhood up till she was 13 with two loving parents and growing up as a Lady. Well technically Sansa is usurping Jon's right by being Queen of the North as the entire realm supposedly belonged to Jon. At least Dany had an equal claim given that Aerys had already surpassed Rhaegar's kids to make Viserys heir. Plus she had the army to conquer KL that neither Jon nor Sansa ever had. I liked Sansa last season but this season I ended up disliking her behaviour towards Dany. Dany was asked by Jon to come North and help protect them. The fact that Sansa was showing her attitude was wrong.
  6. Alex200

    The real character assassination is that of Tyrion

    Yup.. completely agree. Tyrion was my favourite but they ruined to the point of almost being unlikeable for me. The moral preaching felt anachronistic for the era they live in especially considering there was a time where he openly wanted to poison all of KL for how they treated him during his trial. If anything you could make a real case for Tyrion to be sabotaging Dany in favour of his family.
  7. Alex200

    The character assassination of Daenerys

    Bang on! It really felt like that. The characters knew the ending before the events to have them make sense took place and they acted in a way to get to that ending rather than what made sense for what we knew of the characters.
  8. Alex200

    Daenerys the Terrible?

    I agree... take a look at Alexander the great. A man we still label with the epithet "the great". He destroyed cities even after their surrender in order to give an example to those who would rebel against him. Examples of the cities of Tyre and Thebes. He burned Thebes to the ground after capturing it. From wiki: "Although Alexander did not desire to destroy Tehebes, after sending several embassies requesting their submission on what he considered merciful terms, he eventually decided to destroy the city as an example to others." The city itself was burned to the ground and he had 30 000 of their men sent into slavery. In Tyre he had people crucified on the beach. That's not to say we necessarily need to compare to real life scenarios. But the characters themselves developed a morality that was out of keeping in what was previously depicted. Like you said Varys himself had supported Aeyrs. He was the one that told Aeyrs of Rhaegar's plans to consolidate power and depose of him in the tourney of Harrenhall.
  9. I am okay with him making a mistake like Robb but then at least it should result in consequences that Robb had to face. If the North didn't want Southern rulers anymore.. then Jon bending the knee should have lost him support in the North etc. This is a guy that was murdered by his own men in the past. So this whole "everybody loves Jon" felt unearned. Jon wouldn't be accepted as king of the realm anymore than Dany had been. According to the end, even the north itself wanted independence so much that even a true born Stark male heir on the Iron throne was not enough for them to stay as part of the Kingdom. So why would Jon as half Targ be supported in the north? There are just so many inconsistencies and plot holes that I can't blame anything other than the writing for all the characters. Its funny because my favourite characters that they tried to put on a pedestal, like Tyrion, I ended up disliking.
  10. It is more like a lie to himself.
  11. The writing for Jon was purely awful. In the end I couldn't understand why anyone would support him when he made mistake after mistake. It was written to gaslight Dany into madness rather than showcasing any true merit in Jon.
  12. Alex200

    What was the purpose of Jon Snow?

    I have to admit I agree with this. Although I think book Jon had more agency. Show!Jon, especially after his death, was just lucky. He became KitN through no real merit of his own. If the show had been true to itself there would've been consequences for Jon putting his men in jeopardy in the battle of bastards. Also the way they showed Sansa questioning him undermined his ability to band people together.
  13. Alex200

    Why didn't Jon simply refuse to accept banishment?

    Technically Dany won the throne through right of conquest so there is no usurper argument. Its not like Cersei just made way for Dany as a Targ. Also there wasn't any proof that Jon was a Targ except the word of Bran Stark/Varys which wouldn't mean much in the grand scheme of things. Secondly, Dany also had legal claim as an heir of the House Targaryen. After Rhaegar died, Aerys made Viserys the heir passing over the kids of Rhaegar. So Jon's claim could easily be disputed.
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