QhorinQuarterhand

Is there an actual statement directly from GRRM that Lyanna is Jon's book mother? Or is the best "evidence" that video where George nodded along with the interviewer to indicate he knew what she was referencing? If the interviewer had said any other name than Lyanna, the Faith Militant would never even mention it. Except to come out of the wood works to chastise someone for trying to use it to support a non R+L parentage for Jon.

They are liars and their lies should be pointed out. RLJ bots that accuse others of fan fiction are nothing more than scum of the Earth and they deserve zero respect from anybody. To hold the position that RLJ with Jon as the Targ heir through a secret polygamous marriage while accusing other people of fanfiction is about the intelligence level you'd expect from someone that's addicted to getting hit in the head with Robert's warhammer. To accuse someone of acting like a flat earther while lying that George said Lyanna is Jon's book mother is to be absolutely worthless scum. To accuse someone else of dishonesty while lying that Ned never called Jon his son is to be absolutely worthless scum. There used to be plenty of people pointing out their BS but they keep banning them all. And who is the worst offender of them all? The "My house, my rules" uber overinflated ego High Sparrow himself.

Can you demonstrate this with canon text? No.

Nothing from outside canon can reinforce the canon. I'm concerned with interpreting the text correctly instead of bending it to fit a theory. It isn't a question of whether or not a few words are off. It isn't anything so close as that. It's that every piece of "evidence" for RLJ is incorrect in one manner or the other. I do not say lightly that there isn't a single word of evidence in the books that supports RLJ. I do not say lightly that it is a non starter of a theory anyway because Jon's father isn't even a mystery in the books. Isolating quotes in vacuums and pretending Ned never called Jon son doesn't count. And that's the problem. Twisting is always necessary when it comes to RLJ evidence. It is at minimum a fan construct of quotes that may or may not be at all related. None of which ever mention Rhaegar, Lyanna and Jon together. None of which ever puts even two of them together. None of which ever even hints that Rhaegar is Jon's father, or that Lyanna is Jon's mother. Do you have any quotes to show that I'm wrong? I'd love to see them.

Trying to talk sense into RLJers is like leading a horse to water and watching it die of thirst because it refused to stop eating the rocks. Except this horse could talk and it spent the whole insisting that the rocks were the only source of nourishment. Regardless of where you go on the internet the only thing you ever get out of the Faith Militant is outright dismissal,ridicule, abuse, or some twisted fan fiction version of the text or George's words. Or D&Ds words. Whatever they need to twist to fit their fan fiction. Whatever they can make up to support their non starter of a theory. We have to pretend Jon's father is a mystery? We have to pretend Ned never called Jon his son? We have to pretend George confirmed Lyanna is Jon's mother in the books? That Ned's fever dream placed Lyanna inside the tower of joy and that the KG were guarding a never mentioned baby Jon and Rhaegar ordered them to kill even Ned if he showed up looking for her? We have to pretend that our the Faith Militant interpretation of Ned's fever dream is the only possible correct interpretation? Even though it was a fever dream? We have to pretend that Rhaegar and Lyanna were in a legal polygamous marriage? We have to pretend that Lyanna is the best possible candidate for the KOTLT? We have to pretend whatever we need to in order to maintain our RLJ fanfiction and dismiss, ridicule and abuse whoever dares question our obvious fan fiction? RLJers: NO PROBLEM! Not even George proving their fanfiction wrong will deter them either. Not one bit. You see, many of them have already thought of that and have been screaming from the rooftops for years that if their absolutely delusional interpretation of the text doesn't become canon then George RR Martin IS A LIAR! HE CHANGED IT! NO GIGANTIC HIVE MIND EGO DETECTED!

Yikes. Typical Faith Militant BS. Twist and twist and twist. Never admit RLJ is wrong. Have fun with your fan fiction.

Typical Faith Militant BS.

Incorrect. Ned listed all of his children but Jon. No amount of twisting this text can change the fact that Ned referred to Jon as his son in Bran I. The idea that Jon isn't Ned's son because Ned never referred to him as son is a non starter. It's nothing more than fan fiction. The idea that Jon isn't Ned's son because Ned left him off a list of his children is a non starter. It's nothing more than fan fiction. That quote you provided does not exist in a vacuum.

Everyone is welcome to think what they want. The problem arises when they try to elevate non canon to the level of or above canon. What D&D did on the show has literally zero bearing on the books. It doesn't matter if George really told them Jon's mother or not. It doesn't mean his book mother is Lyanna just because the show did that. The show cannot be used to reliably construct book theories. The whole "Well doesn't it make sense, though?" angle doesn't hold any water either. In this case there isn't a single word in the 5 published books that requires Lyanna to be Jon's mother. Or for Rhaegar to be his father, for that matter. The very idea that Jon's father is a mystery in the books is itself only a fan theory. And it's a fan theory that doesn't have a single word of support in the 5 published books.

There is no need for George to lie. It has never been confirmed anywhere that George has ever confirmed that Lyanna is Jon's mother in the books. Regardless of how people twist whatever interview they want to dig up.

Of course he wanted to go with Benjen. But couldn't that have been a desire to go with his uncle? Not from a feeling he deserved special treatment? Not sure what supports Jon expecting to obtain a place of honor either. But mayhaps my memory is failing me.

The show is not the books. No matter how hard you want us to squint.

How does an RLJer not gag on the irony of that sentence?

What makes you think Jon went to the NW expecting to run the place?

Just because they picked R+L for Jon's parents on the show doesn't mean that's what George told them his parents are in the books. If he even told them.

That would be a nice twist to NAJ, which is served to us on a silver platter TWICE.

What they all have in common is that they are not supported by the canon text. For one, Jon's mother is a mystery. Not his father. The very idea that Jon's father is a mystery is itself only a fan theory. One that is not at all supported by the canon text.

Like 65,000 posts into discussing a theory that doesn't have a single word of supporting evidence in the canon text and y'all are stuck pretending Dorne and Elia and Co. would have been perfectly fine with Rhaegar taking on a 2nd wife. All in a futile attempt to make Jon the #1 Targaryen heir.

The bold also applies to Rhaegar.

But why is it doubtful? She can change her mind on men who keep to more than one bed but only if that means she changed it for Rhaegar? Not Robert?

It is interesting. R+L can't even be placed on the same continent as eachother after the Harrenhal Tourney and fans are stuck in heated debate about whether or not their theoretical marriage was legal.

George never did anything but smile. If he even did that. Since this isn't George's words. It's D&Ds. The name Lyanna was never even mentioned. George DID NOT confirm that Lyanna is Jon's mother. Just because they went that way in the show doesn't mean Lyanna is Jon's mother in the books.

Lyanna could have also come to love Robert before her disappearance.

I agree with all of this except the assertion that R+L married being the winning position. There isn't a single word of canon text that supports them marrying, in any fashion.

X+L=J is confirmed? When did this happen?