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  1. There is no justice in Arya sharing Nymeria with Sansa. To suggest that there is, is essentially saying that Nymeria was wrong to protect Arya from being murdered by Joffrey. This is an argument that's very common when it comes to Sansa fans, probably because they're in deep with Sansa's POV and she believes this. The narrative makes it clear that she is wrong to believe her sister should have died and that Joffrey did nothing wrong when he attacked her and Mycah. But there is no rationale for readers to think the same. If OP really wants justice, they should be looking for Cersei to share something with Sansa to make things equal since she, unlike Arya and Nymeria, is at fault for Lady's death. But really, that's completely missing the point of Lady's death. The death of the animal that is part of her soul is intended to have a permanent impact on her. Getting a replacement would undercut this and weaken that part of the story.
  2. Does anyone know if the ibook annotations are listed among the So Spake Martin? If so, what year are they under?
  3. I'll be honest. I stopped at: This is the crux of almost every debate I see on this series. People make the mistake of applying modern values onto this medieval society. That requires ignoring the novels completely. We are talking about ASOIAF not my country or any other. I'm guessing your stance is going for a "If the character has the legal right to commit murder then it's OK" argument since you're focusing on what gives Arya the "right" to execute criminals. *sigh* By that logic, Joffrey, Tywin, and anyone employed by them (Boltons and Freys incuded) have the right to commit all the murder and rape they want because they're the legal king and Hand. By that same logic, Robb and Stannis are completely wrong in all they do because they don't have the "right". And that's why this stance makes no sense. As far as Arya goes, I never spoke of her "right" to do this. I spoke of her motivation which is in line with the values of her culture, especially since there is no true justice to be found in her war torn country right now. If Jon, Robb, or Ned found Dareon in the same circumstances, his head would have rolled.
  4. Dareon was a victim of Northern and Westerosi justice. Arya, like Ned, Robb, Jon etc., happens to be a product of that society and her execution of Dareon is an example of the values instilled in her. She is pro-execution and anti-Nights Watch deserter, like the majority of her countrymen. That combined with her trauma over seeing so much injustice go unpunished has led to her taking justice, as she was taught, into her own hands. It's honestly baffling how this isn't understood as part of the universe of the novels. Ned Stark cuts off the head of a deserter who was telling him the truth about the Others and his mental state is not in question. Military leaders and soldiers participate in murder against innocent people and their mental states aren't questioned. Stannis burns people because a witch told him to and he's regarded as the second coming of Christ while his mental state isn't questioned. Jaime solves every problem with murder, attempted murder, or the threat of murder and he's a wonderfully redeemed man with no mental conditions. Yet, Arya upholding the values of her culture by killing people who broke the law is the end of the world? This repeated argument requires ignoring 99.9999% of these novels.
  5. No. Arya isn't just a proxy for anything. Whether Jon and Arya will become romantic or remain exceptionally close siblings might be up for debate, but there is no rational way to interpret Arya as being "just" anything when it comes to Jon. She certainly isn't a stand in for the whole family. That would assume that he cares about her on equal level with everyone else, which he himself specifically thinks isn't true. He misses her the most and we can see the difference between how he feels about her supposed marriage and how he doesn't care about Sansa being in the same situation. Threats to Sansa have already come. They didn't phase him. Jon cares about his family on differing levels. Arya is at the top. Also, in mentioning Jon's initial choice on leaving the Watch in AGOT, you forget that it wasn't just for Robb: This wasn't a struggle only about deserting for Robb, this was about Ned, Robb, Arya, and Bran as well. It's specific in his thoughts. Note that Sansa is also in danger, while Bran (and Rickon) isn't. Yet these are the ones who take priority in his thoughts. Jon Snow has favorites and he is not subtle about it. This topic really got off track, didn't it.
  6. Arya isn't anything close to a psycho in the novels or the outline, so they're the same on that front. But it's clear that the trajectory has changed otherwise.
  7. We don't know how, if, or when he will be resurrected though. And if his resurrection is less impactful than Cat's, what's the point? GRRM is a writer who allows his characters to experience consequences and he has said in interviews that he doesn't believe in bringing characters back unless there is a high cost. I do wonder what Gendry's significance might be. Since Varys put in the effort to save his life and Yoren tried to protect him as well as he protected Arya, it could be something for something more than we already know.
  8. Oh I agree. The cat is definitely Balerion. I just found it interesting that he was called the black bastard, which Jon is also referred to as, and the true king of the castle, which is a possibility for Jon. It's not strong foreshadowing. Just an interesting parallel/commonality of phrasing. Though with Jon dying and coming back badly (his resurrection must be worse than Cat's since it would be lame otherwise) I wonder if romance is in the cards for him at all.
  9. Like I said, it's nothing overt. There's just enough there IMO to say that the groundwork was lain even if GRRM has developed the story away from that idea.
  10. Huh? Arya is still very much alive physically and inside. Here's a post with a lot of textual evidence: But just a few things that give me pause about them: Arya catches and kisses the black cat who is called the black bastard and the true king of the castle, a couple times Jon compares Arya to Ygritte who he has a sexual relationship with, Arya compares Jon to Gendry who she has romantic undertones with, the blushing and touching in the Needle scene, the gifting of Needle as possible phallic undertones, Jon equating Arya with his heart, the memory of her laughter warming him on the way North, I want my bride back, Jon thinking of one of the last things he said to Arya as he died for her, etc. It's not necessarily overt, but the groundwork is definitely lain for the possibility.
  11. Since there seemed to be evidence for a Jon and Arya romance in the novels even before the infamous original outline came out with them as the main love story of the series, does anyone still think this is the plan going forward or have the characters not aged up fast enough to get there? I can go either way on it since I do see the foreshadowing and the intensity of Jon's affection for Arya which seems to dictate the type of women he is attracted to. On the other hand, GRRM seems to dither on the topic here. It could be that he's upset that some aspects of his ending were released, including not just Jon/Arya but Jon's parentage. But he might have also developed the story away from everything in that outline that hasn't happened yet in some way.
  12. If GRRM was an author who wrote in a straight line with no twists and no complex characters, you would be right. But thankfully that's not true. Arya's list is coping mechanism. It's a response to all the evil and injustice she has seen since leaving Winterfell. It's far from the beginning or end of her story and character arc. Again, if killing criminals/enemies/people who will kill you if you don't kill them first harms the mental health of a character, Ned, Robb, and Jon must have been suffering from some severe mental illness.
  13. Whoa, the way evil acts are excused because those acts are "legal" is astounding and probably the point GRRM is trying to get to here. These people are getting away with their crimes because they are part of the group within the story that has used murder, torture, and rape to get into a position of power. By that reasoning, Joffrey was right in every single thing he did since he was the king and he dictates the law. That's the problem. That's what's leading Arya to become a vigilante. Terrible people are getting away with committing evil acts. The Trident incident is what opens her eyes to this reality since she is shocked that the people she trusted to protect her and enforce justice are doing nothing in the face of the maiming and murder of an innocent boy.
  14. Yep. Since Loras murdered Emmon Cuy and Robar Royce, both of whom were innocent, and there is no discussion on his mental state, we already know that had he extended his murders to a deserter, there would be no critique of him.
  15. This is probably the actual heart of the issue when it comes to vilifying Arya. She is a girl who doesn't fit the role her society has tried to groom her for and even modern readers seem to interpret that as the highest sin of all. If Arya did exactly the same things as she does in the books but was male, there would be no one trying to vilify her anymore than they might Robb or Jon, who have far higher kill counts and are less concerned with the guilt of all the people they're killing. It's not a girl's role to step out of the role men decided she should force herself to fit into. And I'm not saying anyone should vilify Robb or Jon. Just using them as an example to make a point.
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