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violentdelights

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  1. You’re right, it was a deleted scene. “We actually did a scene that clearly got cut, a short scene with Sansa where she knocks on Bran’s door and says, ‘I need your help,’ or something along those lines,” Wright said. “So basically, as far as I know, the story was that it suddenly occurred to Sansa that she had a huge CCTV department at her discretion and it might be a good idea to check with him first before she guts her own sister. So she goes to Bran, and Bran tells her everything she needs to know, and she’s like, ‘Oh, s—.’” How bizarre. So how did the show go about Sansa, Arya and Bran choosing to execute him? Or was that predictably resolved offscreen? I thought that Sansa was still under his thumb right up to his execution? Was there anything to hint at her having her marriage annulled prior to her wedding with Ramsay? Smells like bigamy. I can’t remember much about the show but I do recall wondering if they were really going to go *there* with Petyr and Sansa’s relationship lol.
  2. I find the rest of your post quite bizarre but what's the point of this contention lol? I say this as a woman of colour, I don't see the supposed bad optics. The slavers are almost cartoonish in how ridiculously evil they are, it's always amusing seeing people defend their 'way of life’. As to your point, @King Adrian Storm, I definitely see the parallels. On my next read of the series, I was thinking of just reading all of Dany's chapters and then afterwards, all Jon chapters. Bran and Daenerys are another two with a lot of parallels as noted above. I’m not really sure what it means for their respective arcs, I’ll come back once I do that re-read.
  3. In general, redemption is always possible ... especially so in fiction (and it's not linear either). However, it is only satisfying if it was built up (i.e. the character demonstrates a desire to change, holds some accountability for their crimes, etc). I mean, George could write: "And so Euron Greyjoy atoned for his past evils and spent his remaining years feeding poor and curing diseases long believed to be incurable. The End." But that would be completely unsatisfying for the reader because it came out of the blue. In any case, it would be quite a dreary world to live in if one didn't believe in the transformative nature of the human soul, much less, those of fictional characters. Also, redemption is not charity. It is meant to be earned. The hands that gripped the sword stained with the blood of innocents could be the very same hands that would heal the injured, aid the poor, etc.
  4. I honestly didn't see it. If anything, I thought the show played in the Petyr/Sansa relationship a bit too much. It got really bizarre before his execution. If I recall correctly, Sansa needed Bran to spell it out to her that Littlefinger was no bueno and she was just about to get rid of Arya lol? How completely unsatisfying yet completely unsurprising given the appalling writing of Sansa and Littlefinger's characters (ah, the whole show if I'm being honest). In any case, this discussion reminds me, is Sansa still Lady Lannister on the show? Robb must be rolling in his grave lol. Or was just 'fixed' off-screen like Rhaegar/Elia's marriage? Regarding Cersei's death, I second the opinion that she'll be killed be Jaime and the show didn't want to be accused of even more misogyny if they had both Daenerys and Cersei killed be their lovers/former lovers. I wish the show introduced Satin. I began to dislike Tormund's character because of how much of a self-insert he read as at some points. What was the whole point of that stupid Brienne-Tormund plot?
  5. @Elegant Woes My apologies for the delay, I was quite busy these past few weeks. I'm too lazy to search back right now, but I thought we were talking about Sansa's self-esteem and not whether she internalises some of his 'points'. Because in the latter case, she absolutely does, and there's nothing wrong with some of the points she internalises, so long as she doesn't buy into his cynicism (which she does not). Your quote is missing some context. So, let's look at the first time Sandor picks up on her courtesies: "Some septa trained you well. You're like one of those birds from the Summer Isles, aren't you? A pretty little talking bird, repeating all the pretty little words they taught you to recite." A Game of Thrones, Sansa II He's quite obviously mocking her (and her courtesies). However, by the end of AGoT, what does he tell her when she's afraid to face Joffrey? "He wants you to smile and smell sweet and be his lady love," the Hound rasped. "He wants to hear you recite all your pretty little words the way the septa taught you. He wants you to love him … and fear him." A Game of Thrones, Sansa VI Ironically, the courtesies he mocked earlier are what he acknowledges to be her greatest asset in order to survive Joffrey (and King's Landing). And you can even see Sansa 'internalizing' his advice in the same chapter: He did not hate her, Sansa realized; neither did he love her. He felt nothing for her at all. She was only a … a thing to him. "No," she said, rising. She wanted to rage, to hurt him as he'd hurt her, to warn him that when she was queen she would have him exiled if he ever dared strike her again … but she remembered what the Hound had told her, so all she said was, "I shall do whatever His Grace commands. A Game of Thrones, Sansa VI In all honestly, I don't see how it hurts her? We have evidence of Sansa being hurt when she learns that Cersei and Joffrey think that she's stupid. Sansa was a little bird repeating the words she was taught, and that's not a bad thing. It's in the same vein as Septa Mordane telling her that "A lady's armour is courtesy" (albeit cruder).
  6. @Ibbison from Ibben You made a good point about the importance of dress and colour especially in Sansa's story. What do you make of Sansa's clothing choice when she escapes the Purple Wedding? She chose a dress of thick brown wool. The bodice was decorated with freshwater pearls, though. The cloak will cover them. The cloak was a deep green, with a large hood. She slipped the dress over her head, and donned the cloak, though she left the hood down for the moment.
  7. I understand. I also worry about the limited time and I'd like to counter with Ygritte and Jon's romance that developed within the span of a few chapters, but, both Jon and Dany have a lot of ground to cover in their chapters and I don't even think they'll meet until the end of Winds.
  8. It could remain platonic but I do wonder if that elusive shadow lover that featured in her dreams in ASOS and ADWD could be Jon. I know people theorised about it being Euron but I don't think Jon should be ruled out.
  9. Why most likely? You can make a great case for Aegon. Sansa's cloak is covered in "blood and fire" not "fire and blood". The bastard branch of House Targaryen had reverse colours and reverse words could be analgous to that. Sansa wearing the cloak with the "blood and fire" might hint that she will be marrying a Targaryen pretender. This would support the Ashford theory of Sansa's 5 suitors. Before you say that Aegon is not a true Targaryen, Joffrey is not a true Baratheon. Even more, it could be a play on Rhaegar/Lyanna/Elia with the Targaryen ditching a Martell for a Stark. Or, it could just mean something as mundane and silly as Sansa wearing Sandor Clegane's cloak (twice) and keeping it in a cedar chest (a betrothal item) which in an earlier GRRM work, The Skin Trade, we know means: "...the cedar chest at the foot of the bed. Her mother always used to call it a hope chest. Did little girls still keep hope chests? She didn't think so, at least not around here. Maybe there were still places where hope didn't seem so terribly unrealistic, but this city wasn't one of them [...] Hope chests were where you kept your future, all the little things that were part of the dreams that taught you to dream when you were a child."
  10. I'm not sure why I this is constantly used as evidence of a Jon/Sansa romance. GRRM had Jon initially hang Slynt but in 2010, he changed it. Here's the original thread for your perusal. The only reason why the ending was changed (according to a user there) was because the fans felt that it would be more fitting for Jon to do it the Stark way. Sansa was not part of that consideration, so why is this used as evidence of George planting seeds for them?
  11. Is this about Slynt? Because that was not at all deliberate. GRRM initially had him hang Slynt but changed it in 2010. Here's the original thread. So GRRM did not write Jon fulfilling Sansa's wish (of some hero cutting off his head) with the intention of demonstrating that Jon was the hero Sansa was calling out for. In fact, going through that thread, one of the users implies that it was changed only because the fans thought it would be more fitting for Jon to do it the Stark way. Sure. I'm sure there are other characters who do too. However, since this is about Sansa, we should focus on that character she describes as brave, gentle and strong in her own narrative. It's not Jon.
  12. It's pretty common fandom-speak in a certain fandom I won't mention (because I don't want to derail this thread). I love it and use it constantly now
  13. Yes, I agree that this line is meant to be subverted. It's kind of like Theon telling himself he can't save Jeyne because he isn't a hero and all that jazz during her wedding. In the end, he does save her. Sansa will get her BGSTWP. There's just nothing convincing that indicates that Jon is that person.
  14. I mean... 2/3 of Haggon's skin changing rules have already been broken. The third one could be broken by Nymeria and Ghost mating. EUGH. To answer your question, OP, not likely. For a character whose arc revolves a lot around romance, there is nothing to demonstrate that GRRM is taking us down that route.
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