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The Merling King

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  1. Renly and his army were obviously not in a rush to starve out Kings Landing. I am simply asking if it would make more sense given Renly’s weak claim to let Stannis and the Lannister’s draw first blood. If Renly or Mace decided to wait, perhaps on Oleana’s advice, he could potentially avoid the shadow baby and have a more legitimate claim. If Renly stayed in Highgarden and told the Stormlords to refuse his brother would Stannis still besiege Stormsend or retreat to Dragonstone? What if Melisandre uses the shadow baby to assassinate Joffrey? Stannis would have to make a move eventually. I believe Renly jumped the gun because of his own hubris and the Tyrells ambitions
  2. What if Renly and the Tyrells had stayed neutral until after Blackwater in the hope that either Joffrey or Stannis dies giving Renly a more legitimate claim and clearer path to the iron throne?
  3. The Merling King

    Marriages between kingdoms under the Targaryens?

    It seems very unlikely for dual lordships as male lines last for thousands of years and also the importance of family names to GRRM. If a Renly Baratheon-Margery Tyrell type marriage took place under the dragonless Targaryens it would probably cause a lot of concern. Both Janes Arryn and Rhea Royce lands and titles were inherited by a relation within there internal family. Does anyone know what happened to Rowena Webber’s land after she married Gerold Lannister? Also I wonder if when the male Lannister line ran out and the king of the Rock wed his daughter to an Andal in exchange for him taking the Lannister name would it have been a good time for say a Gardener king to try and present his son as a worthy successor and unify the 2 kingdoms?
  4. Prior to the Southron Ambitition and Aegon V, how common was marriages between kingdoms? I read that Tya Lannister wed Gowen Baratheon during the time of The Hedge Knight but Gowen was most likely not the lord or heir but a younger son. Any other examples? The Angevin Empire is a historical example were Norman Dukes ”lords paramounts”(and kings of England) gained control of more French territory then the King of France through marriage and maternal inheritance like Anjou, Aquitaine and Brittany. I am curious if a marriage between a LP male heir and daughter of LP could take place without the approval of the royal family. Like Robert and Cersei or Renly and Margery if the they were not the new royal family. The Targaryens would probably be less concerned about a marriage between a Stark and Tully than the southern kingdoms but they’re power had already been weakened between the WO9PK and RR. Any thoughts?
  5. It’s 107 AC and queen Allicent Hightower has just given you a legitimate male heir, what would you do if you were king Viserys I? I would name Aegon II as my heir and promise the Valeryons that any daughter born of Rhaenyra and Laenor would marry the first born son of Prince Aegon and Helaina.
  6. If all the dragons died or escaped during Maegor’s rule would the Targaryens be able to survive? Obviously the 55 good years under Jahaerys gave them some leeway post OTL dance but let’s say Maegor crushes all the rebellions and dies on the throne leaving Jahaerys, Allisane and Rhaena dragon-less, assuming they can’t hatch eggs like in OTL. Any chance the dynasty continues or would they need at least 1 dragon to survive and stay in Targaryen control? If Jahaerys was crowned then Rogar Baratheon and Damon Valeryon would have much more power in the regency and government. Targaryen incest would probably have to stop because without dragons Jahaerys would not be able to promote the exceptionalism propaganda and probably have to make concessions. Also if everything else goes the same as OTL with Viserys I, there is no way Rhaenira could challenge the Hightower coup without dragon power?
  7. Merovingian or Carolinians? The Stormland, Reach, Westerland and Riverlands are mostly Andal and follow the Seven. What if it was a Durandon or Gardener? The Gardener and Durandon kings both had larger Kingdoms then the Hoars at one time. According to Yandel, the Gardener kingdom "reached the apex of its power under King Gyles III Gardener, who led a glittering host of armored knights into the stormlands, smashed the armies of the aged Storm King, and conquered all the lands north of the rainwood save for Storm’s End itself, which he besieged without result for two years”. That’s an extremely broad kingdom, stretching from Red Lake in the north (brought into the fold by Garth III) to Sunhouse (established by the Three Sage Kings) in the south and from the Shield Islands in the west (formally settled by Garth VII) to the Narrow Sea and possibly even Tarth in the east. The Durrandons had an even greater empire for a time: according to Yandel, “King Arlan I (the Avenger) swept all before him, extending the borders of his kingdom as far as the Blackwater Rush and the headwaters of the Mander”, while “[h]is great-grandson King Arlan III crossed both the Blackwater and the Trident and claimed the riverlands in their entirety, at one point planting his crowned stag banner on the shores of the Sunset Sea”. That’s a kingdom that stretched from the Neck in the north to the Dornish Marches in the south, and from Ironman’s Bay in the west to the Narrow Sea in the east. Of the three, the Hoares had the smallest continental central holding: Imagine if the Reach planned this differently or had a wiser king like Garth Goldenhand and were able to lay siege to both StormsEnd and Casterly Rock. All you have to do is then divide the many river lords and Dornish kings to keep them fighting amongst each other and out of your territory while you are overextended. The Gardeners would probably be much more lenient overlords then the Durandons or Hoares. What if a Gardener prince married the only daughter of king Gerold III Lannister instead of the Andal adventure Joffrey Lydden and united the 2 kingdoms? If Aegon did not come, I think the Lannister’s and Gardeners would have united to face a different enemy. Perhaps the Reach would absorb what was left of the Stormlands to “protect” it’s faith worshipping brethren from the Iron Born and Dornish threats?
  8. If the Targaryens never invade Westeros do you think any pre-conquest kingdom like the Gardeners or Durandons could unite central Westeros (excluding the North, Vale and Dorne)? I know the purpose of the great game but do you think it’s possible for example a strong Gardener king could conquer the Stormland, Riverlands and Westerlands and pacify the Lannister’s and Durandons like they did with the Hightower and Redwyne petty kings? The Gardeners came close to conquering the Stormlands in the past. Alternatively the Durandons were able to conquer the Riverlands maybe they could make common cause with the Westerlands and Reach against the Ironborn and Dornish? Perhaps the Vale would eventually come into the fold due to shared Andal culture and religion leaving only the North and Dorne independennt? Is this feasible without dragons?
  9. If the crown had the full support of the Reach and Westerlands they probably would have defeated STAB? I feel like the first half of the Targaryen dynasty had the Targ-Baratheon-Valeryon trifecta similar to the current Tyrell-Redwyne-Hightower marriage alliances but with dragons so the Targaryen were much more secure then the Tyrells. Sure the Hightowers and Arryns have both gotten a piece of the action but not compared to the other two in the first century and half. It’s true both Baratheon’s and Valeryon’s have overstepped throughout the years but they were key supporters so it is ironic that the Baratheon’s replaced them. In regards to the Valeryon’s, I think they were completely de-powered to further isolate the Targeryens. I’m still not sure how they fell so far compared to the Hightowers, I know they lost a lot during the dance and Lyseni Spring but I would think they would have been able to rebuild over 150 years as Tywin showed it was possible to restore a house to greatness in one generation. Plus it would have made sense for the Targaryens to continue to support the Velaryon’s to keep there fleet supreme after the dance and Lyseni Spring fiasco? Imagine if the Valeryons were as powerful during RR as the DOTDs, they don’t even seem to be on the Redwyne level.
  10. The Merling King

    Targaryen dragon regulation?

    Assuming Viserys I could claim a second dragon after Balerion died but had no interest in riding another dragon, why wouldn’t he at least claim Vhagar or Vermithor for symbolic purposes or potentially for security as Daemon and the Valeryons could be seen as potential “threats” early in his reign? Also do you think his small council urged him to claim another dragon and he simply disregarded there advise similar to the Lana Valeryon marriage?
  11. Stormlands and Vale are closest in proximity to KL excluding the always fractured Riverlands. I think the Targaryens usually put a loyal lord in Harrenhal for added security. Does anyone think the Vale- Stormlands- Dorne coalition of Daeron Ii is powerful enough to create hegemony across dragon-less Westeros. I’m surprised that Daeron II did not try to repeat his Stormlands policy and wed a grandchild to a Reacher marcher lord like the Tarly’s or a powerful second house like the Redwynes to secure Reach support against the Blackfyres.
  12. The Merling King

    Targaryen dragon regulation?

    It looks like Jaehaerys I tried to limit the number of dragon riders as only 3 of his 13 children were given dragons. It seems he had the foresight that his grandson Viserys I lacked. Do you think Targaryens should have limited the dragon riders to the king and prince of DS. Is this feasible and what would be the long term affects
  13. What would happen If prince Valarr or Matarys survived the great spring sickness but Kiera of Tyrosh dies. Any thoughts on possible marriages or alliances? Perhaps Daenora Targaryen or one of Maekar’s daughters or would they look outside the family? It would be a tough time for any king with the drought and sickness but I think anyone would be better than Aerys I. Would Bloodraven and Maekar be able to work together on the small council? Possibly the iron throne would deal with the Greyjoy’s and Blackfyre’s differently.
  14. I think the Targaryens were less concerned when they had dragons as Lannister’s were considered potential suitors for both Princess Daella and Princess Rhaenrya. I agree regarding the Tyrells and was suprised Aegon V offered his daughters to the Tyrells and Tully’s. Do you think the largess had worn out or was he desperate to pass his reforms?
  15. Any thoughts on the importance of Targeryen power bloc’s in post dragon Westeros, for example the Vale- Stormlands- Dorne alliance formed by Daeron ii and the attempted power block of Aegon V through marriages. Do you think the Stormlands and the Vale are key to any Targeryen coalition? Also do you think the Targaryens were hesitant to bing in over-powefull houses like the Lannister and Tyrells after what happened with the Hightower’s and the Valeryons during the dance?