Willam Stark

Battle of Ice PoV

- Tyrion

- Bran

- Arya

- Sansa

- Sam

- Brienne

Dorne and Stormlands I guess.

I agree with that, let's have some balance for once in this feud.

Faith of the Seven now, but they might have followed an other religion than the Old Gods before the Andals came.

Aegon I is his father, I don't think he was infertile but Visenya was and she used sorcery to become fertile.

3 hours ago, The hairy bear said:

It is very common to have blond-haired individuals with only one of the parents being blond.

I know that, but that's not the case here. Laenor and Rhaenyra are blond-haired.

3 hours ago, The hairy bear said:

And it's more unusual, but far from impossible, to have to blond people produce a brown-haired child.

I'm skeptical, I'll look into it.

8 hours ago, Alester Florent said:

In particular, Valyrian silver-blond seems surprisingly strong given that it has lasted down to Daenerys, who has only a relatively minor proportion of Valyrian/Targaryen blood .

The Valyrian Houses have been interbreeding with the Andal and FM Houses for centuries, so it's hardly surprising.

On 2/1/2024 at 2:46 PM, The hairy bear said:

They could, if Rodrik Arryn (Rhaenyra's grandfather) was brown-haired.

Nope because blond hair is a recessive trait that is only expressed when inherited from both parents. Which means that both Rhaenyra and Laenor didn't had the dominant brown hair trait, otherwise one of them would have been brown-haired at the very least.

1 hour ago, The hairy bear said:

It's something that it's made obvious in the show, but it's much more muddy in the books (when we don't even have descriptions of Rodrik Arryn and Harwin Strong).

We have the description of Laenor, their alledged father, who had Valyrian features just like Rhaenyra.

In that case, they couldn't have had brown-haired children.

They wouldn't do anything against Rhaenyra, too dangerous.

5 hours ago, PrettyLittlePsycho said:

And I blame the show for establishing R+L=J.

GRRM himself said many things in the books will be resolver differently than in the show.

I sincerely hope this is one of them.

I think GRRM is the one you should blame the most since he didn't finish his saga before the show ended.

6 hours ago, Hippocras said:

It is not about magic wands. It is about fear. Her shame and humiliation mean absolutely nothing if people are terrified. So I insist. You underestimate her.

Tywin is the only Lannister people feared, but he's dead.

Cersei is just a joke compared to him.

1 hour ago, Him of Many Faces said:

Jon being Lyanna's and Rhaegar's son is a matter of reading comprehension to me. I think the fandom should have long time ago (like decades ago) accepted that as a stone carved fact and moved on from bringing up alternatives. 

Most of the fandom did, especially after the end of the show.

It's only on this forum that I've seen people questioning Jon's parentage, on other forums it's recognized as an established fact.

I think that's the case.

In my opinion, dragonriders can only bond with a specific dragon. Regarding Alyn and Addam, I think they were full brothers and Corlys' bastards with Marilda.

I wouldn't say hate either, but the following theories makes me roll my eyes:

- All the alternatives to R+L=J

- Dany is R+L daughter

- Quentyn is not Quentyn but the real Aegon (Rhaegar + Elia's son) and is alive

- YG is Quentyn

- Serenei of Lys is Larra Rogare

- All the theories involving Bloodraven as the ultimate mastermind

1 hour ago, maesternewton said:

Of course, they are a lot of unique names in the Stark tree, like Cregan, there difference being those individuals don't have sketchy backgrounds like Lynara Stark. 

What do you mean by "sketchy"?

1 hour ago, maesternewton said:

The name is similar to Lianna Velayron.

Not that much.

1 hour ago, maesternewton said:

Why would GRRM waste time coming up with this character that doesn't exist?

Show that Mushroom is not completely reliable and we should take his ramblings with a grain of salt. As Alester Florent said, he wasn't at Winterfell so we have even less reasons to give him credit for what may have happened there.

8 hours ago, PrettyLittlePsycho said:

R+L=J is BS promoted by the abomination.

Well D&D got their job because they guessed correctly who's Jon Snow's mother and it turns out to be Lyanna in the show, so this is pretty much canon at this point. The real mystery now is "who's the father" and it can't be Ned since he was separated from his sister for a year.

53 minutes ago, maesternewton said:

That's the official narrative. My headcanon is that Cregan went and coerced or bribed a destitute Stark relative, from a minor branch of the family, to marry Sara and acknowledge Sara's child as their own and so they could hide the fact that she is the daughter of Jacaerys Velaryon.

She would still be his niece and not his cousin, regardless of the official identity of the father.

Targ blood cannot come from Sara Snow's bloodline, if she ever existed.

21 hours ago, maesternewton said:

Sara Snow and Jacaerys had a child together, that's another reason why Cregan was delayed. The child is Lynara Stark, who was eventually married by Cregan Stark himself. The main stark line had some Targ blood.

Lynara Stark comes from a cadet branch of House Stark and was Cregan's cousin, not his niece.

If you're looking for Targ blood in the main line, you should bet on Melantha Blackwood who would be the daughter of one of Bloodraven's sisters. I don't believe it's the case, but it's the most likely option.

My turn

- Myriah Martell was the granddaughter of Aliandra Martell and Drazenko Rogare, which makes her a second cousin of King Daeron II through the Rogare side.

- Jenna Dondarrion and Aelinor Penrose were great-granddaughters of Baela and Alyn Velaryon, third cousins of Daeron's II sons through the Targ side.

- Dyanna Dayne was the great-granddaughter of Rhaena and Garmund Hightower, third cousin of Daeron's II sons as well

- Rhae Targaryen (Egg's younger sister) married Lord Jasper Arryn and is Jon Arryn's mother, which means that he is Robert's first cousin twice removed through the Targ side.

- Melantha and Betha Blackwood were sisters, the former was the eldest, making Ned a third cousin of Robert and Aerys' children through the Blackwood side.

On 12/25/2023 at 2:26 PM, Hippocras said:

I think some people are contorting themselves with theories because they want to believe that Dawn is THE sword and that Jon is soon to be "the Sword of the Morning". That idea would of course not be compatible with R+L=J

Well in this scenario, he has Dayne blood through his paternal great-great-grandmother, Dyanna Dayne.

If it's just a matter of blood, it should work.

Arryn, Baratheon, Martell for the LP.

I don't believe the others have Targ blood.

Cersei.

On 12/18/2023 at 3:03 PM, Hippocras said:

I think she, and her generation of Daynes, descended from a Targaryen.

I think they come from Rhaena's bloodline. As you said, she had 6 daughters and I believe that the eldest one married lord Hightower and became lady Hightower. This lady Hightower married lord Dayne and had at least 2 children: lady Dyanna Dayne who married Prince Maekar and a son who perpetuated the Dayne's line to this day (in the saga).

8 hours ago, Hippocras said:

We do have a Targaryen betrothal for Celia Tully that was broken. This suggests Celia may have been some degree of cousin, whose side branch of the royal lineage required containment.

Not necessarily, House Tully is a lord paramount house thus Celia Tully was a good match for a Targaryen prince simply as a Tully. Besides, Aegon V didn't like the traditions of his family, I don't think he would care whether Celia was a close kin or not, he was building alliances before anything else. This is why I don't believe she had Targaryen ancestry at all, same goes for the modern Tully.

19 hours ago, Hippocras said:

Sansa is still bonding. The dog at the Fingers was ni random detail. She may not have slipped skins yet but enough time with a dog and she would.

Could you provide the quote please?

Vic is dumber and Dumb would win an eventual fight.