SerDuncan

If they change with time, why are you so hellbent on forcing the morals of this era onto a dark age?

Yes I've heard so called canon experts ask me who the hell he was

How many times was that the first night? I agree about the pressure factors but he was a horny teen, she wanted to save him and was interested too, and they ended up in love

Do the wildlings have some sort of reward on their heads, if they are caught on this side of the Wall?

How far are we letting this guy go? That girl is a just a kid and here we have him defending the right to fuck (a child) for money!? We have more than one with yours mister and I've had enough I'm at a loss for words, you cannot be real

It was consensual right? I can't believe some of the comparisons.

I believe that one shouldn't expect someone else to ensure your quality of life. If that is threatened by external factors, you don't sit and wait for that pathetic excuse of a legal system to do good by you. Well there was this joke somewhere, if aliens really invaded USA, people'd call 911 a dozen times and then just give up. After all, not everyone is the tough vet with PTSD like those movies show. Of course not, no one is going to here of it sadly. Deterrents need publicity. But her intent was not that, just a by product. Her's was justice. Heard of court martials for deserters? Don't sign up in the first place if you're gonna cut and run. And the Watch isn't Vietnam with forced conscription drafts, it's the real threat. That bastard was offered a chance to continue living as its servant and he took it. And then ran. Oh that one? It's called A song of Ice and Fire. You could try and read it. Or not if you're so squeamish about violence. Hmm, if that's the case, you're in the wrong forum. This isn't Disney. Potato potato, tomato tomato, You know how it goes. What are they again? Which fairy tales you read ? Asking for my niece. Sure humans have loved and helped their own tribe (now nations and religions and whatnot) as it was an extension of themselves, and raped and pillaged elsewhere. When our basic needs and more were fulfilled, we started lecturing the ones whose weren't on how to live "ideally". Anyone who thinks any organised religion is about compassion must surely be on the same IQ level as the dino fake gang imo. God and religion are not the same. Spirituality has never harmed anyone since it is personal, only when you clan up and go to war in the name of god- what can I say. I'm not the one asking proof when it's in the text that someone bothered to just pass by. Sure, he votes liberal and has never killed a man and slept like a baby. Another day without dying, of course I'm fucking happy, all dopamine and serotonin and whatnot coursing through my bloodstream and nerves. Your what? Arguments, my ass. Repeating the same shit doesn't count. "Oh, thats evil!", Chatgpted a million ways to repeat that? And I was patient for a long time.

Who said daughters were burdens, look at the value they have as an incentive, a commodity, maybe when it comes to it, bargaining chips. Those screaming "progressive", this is called a realistic portrayal. Anyway just remembered, the mountain clans of the Vale are wanted right? And this ascent videogame has one, never heard of it tbh

Another pedophile Maybe we should let child services have a lookie Need any more proof that democracy is a joke? Either we go back to the jungle, every man for himself, else we'd have the likes of such above exercising their right to "freedom of speech". Or you know, a benevolent dictatorship. You don't get shit done by committee. Sure, absolute power corrupts and all, call me a fascist, at least I'm not a rape apologist.

Though in his case no trial would've saved him with Queen Cersei in power, after all Robert would comply with her demands just to be rid of her for that moment, a kid's life be damned. Empathy doesn't win you a kingdom, hammers and swords do

You're their saviour arentya Are you that dumb or just pretending to be? SNOB

PEDO And the realm is harmed by every pair of hands lost. That actually ended up saving the realm/ postponing doom Seen Tarly's trials? What a farcical mockery of justice. Which one do you think is more prevalent? That was a political blunder, not a legal one. Heck, if you're the king who crowned himself, pretty much nothing is illegal. But you couldn't really hope to be a monarch if you allow that kind of insubordination. NOW THAT IS CALLED PULLING SHIT OUT OF YOUR ASS And that PEDO isn't a harmless little kid. That singer Marillion (Tolkien?) is another, in a series of bards with similar characteristics Martin chose to portray that way. He could have shown Dareon to be a criminal openly, but the denial adds all the more to his conniving personality. After all, she was asking for it and she deserved it are the two most common excuses one encounters. The fate of the realm being endangered by the lethargy of a rascal is more than NOT NICE Well, I'm reporting you officially, the sensitive vegan chauvinist. If thats how you view women, no surprises for Arya. IIRC you wanted Sansa to seduce Littlefinger. 13. year. old. Good to know that you'd be a proud deserter. And it's not forced labour, they are defending the realm, not working 10 yos on 12 hour shifts. And there are criminals in the Watch who have reformed in the face of the biggest existential threat there was, not break the vows (if you fucking cared so much, why swear em in the first place and break em like a pathetic miserable coward) and run Duress? That cunt without balls would have creamed to continue living regardless of whether it was hell that awaited him. Oh these scum are now beside you on that horse huh. The poor rapist who was forced to take the black. boo hoo From what we see lately from you here, that would make you cream Deny the horse you snobby snail

I don't really like her fyi, but as someone said, laws are crap; Slavery was legal until a short time ago (near dear history). Apartheid not even decades. The word you should put there is morally, that compass instilled by her upbringing.

Imagine!? Let me tell you something about your dear history, it didn't start 2000 years ago. For the majority of our time here which is nowhere as low as 2000 years, we have killed or been killed. So called civilization has just replaced the sticks with guns, the stakes of need with greed. Get out of your sheltered existence and look at the world for what it is. Bald monkeys taking turns screwing each other. Let me guess, dinosaurs are fake? And there was also something called slavery, the Inquisition, the Crusades and a Holocaust. I'm talking millions of years of primal instinct, not dressing up and playing the insufferable cunt for a few centuries. One generation going feral is all its going to take, all our so called knowledge is just passed down, not genetic. What is seared in is the drive to consume and procreate, much like any virus. What history is that? Made up fairy tales or cold hard evidence in your face? For the damnth fucking time, they don't live in 21st century Scandinavia. Lmao, who do you think I am child None of them bitched and moaned about killing. In fact half of them have kill counts more than Arya. And Daenerys? She orgasmed to the slaughter of hundred commonfolk last we saw her. Now that's a character raised abused and exposed to the trauma of dislocation, miscarriage, marital rape (regardless how much ever she thought she enjoyed it) and desensitized by war and the burden of rule, I'd like to see your worldview after a stint as a Dothraki wife and/or an entitled inbred brat. Plausible causality above all. Accurate portrayal of such a society doesn't include your idealistic bull. Real history began in the caves and if you'd like to go back further, the oceans, not in paradise Nothing better a deterrent than an ominously missing deserter.

So I take it wasn't you on that high horse a couple of days back? Ignoring the fact that you want a 13 year old to bed a creepy old man who lusted after her mother, I'm happy that you came out with all your talk being wishes for several character arcs. Leave the forum, let's take this thread, we are trying to analyse impartially based on text from the books, and not allow our personal desires to get in the way. God, I wish that dear old man would release the next book soon!

But wasn't that meant for Tyrion? Like Daenerys, those are royalty, whereas very few commonfolk criminals and outlaws have rewards for their heads

I don't see anyone fucking laughing. And that ass is called the Song of Ice and Fire. Maybe get off your own rear and read it instead of consuming whatever is on podcasts and youtube these days and regurgitating, post abomination like the guys call it. PS: The Abomination, apt moniker

How would you like it if I set that frigging mosquito on you!? She hasn't got a Jimmy Choo or Manolo Blahnik round the block unlike some of us ffs She takes a shit, it's a grand evil transformation Perhaps you could loan her some your ample time to ruminate, after all saving one's own ass isn't a priority If I could bother myself with quoting CANON to the likes of you, bah The pinnacle of my time here, hands down WOW That's something! If you're going to do it at least have the guts to do it yourself. I don't know much about the profanity code here but this is cutting it real close pal Glad to hear the vegetable killers approve of that. Last I heard this wasn't a fantasy wish fulfilment forum

You don't defend the realms of men by being a liberal Reason left the chat You wouldn't be saying that plus or minus hundred years from now, let alone in a medieval setup. So let's stick to the text and not wherever your utopia is

Now I recall that essence of justice quote Anyway, with the encouragement of @Ser Arthurs Dawn I start my first topic after a long dormant observation period. The very concept of bounty hunters in a land under some form of law has never failed to make me ponder about the morality of such an occupation, the necessity in different periods and places and the sanctioning of something close to vigilantism, treading very close to the perilous cliff of states losing control. Law and currency are only shored by the trust held by the masses. Of course we can immediately think of the hedge knights and sellswords and there have been rewards on outlaws akin to bounties but nothing quite matching the scale and depth of a professional bounty hunter from a western (space ones included ) Ronin in Japan have a rich representation for instance. We have the aforementioned poor knights and mercs but a POV woven in could have explored this strata of society inworld. I still nurse a complaint that we never got a worthy grassroot level narrative from the common masses in the books and show likewise. Dunk & Egg offered the closest view imo, though not unlike the NPCs in medieval fantasy RPGs. Speculations on worthy candidates from the canon, say Hangman Hodor and general discussion are welcome. Thank you.

Wow. This sparked something I believe is really interesting and worth a separate topic of its own if there are enough people interested. With the prevalent lawlessness inworld, I find that the addition of a bounty hunter culture would have benefited the already fantastic worldbuilding even more so. After all we had them in the real world here not so long ago, even in times of fractured states (Periods before Aegon's conquest mirror the civil war times in the US). Partly credit goes to all this Star Wars talk of late both in forum and irl. So what do you guys think?

What is he, an embezzler or a pedophile slash murderer? Can't bunch em all together so easily Vastly different scenarios, no refugee/immigrant is going to make me a zombie, though you could say the Walkers are aliens of a sort too It's not your or our realm being threatened with annihilation. Dereliction of duty in such a world is unforgivable, especially when the perp is aware of the scale of the threat.

We both know how that would have turned out. Both her instincts and what she could infer from her observations made her wary and rightfully so as time proved it. So let's not pretend otherwise for petty reasons. For the whateverth time, Those men kill for coin, glory or duty, she kills to continue drawing breath. If you couldn't see past that glaring difference in the first place, nothing I or any of us here say could convince you otherwise Can you hear yourself? We do, those on the side of reason, plausible causality fr? Saying something again and again doesn't make it so. Maybe it'd have worked for you in the past, I'm tiring. Needle was Robb and Bran and Rickon, her mother and her father, even Sansa. Needle was Winterfell's grey walls, and the laughter of its people. Needle was the summer snows, Old Nan's stories, the heart tree with its red leaves and scary face, the warm earthy smell of the glass gardens, the sound of the north wind rattling the shutters of her room. Needle was Jon Snow's smile. He used to mess my hair and call me "little sister," she remembered, and suddenly there were tears in her eyes So the adults in their world and ours are all perfectly just, it's the kids who are crazy huh? And her being a girl seems to rile you even more. Her being efficient means she isn't a bumbling incompetent moron. Her humanity lies in a dozen other instances you chose to ignore. FYI, I had a Psychology minor. You on the other hand seem to have had a lot of free time and internet on your hands. Forcing your worldview on everyone else isn't exactly a lofty ideal to aspire to. And don't get me started on 'research', I know first-hand how those happen. Google can pronounce you clinically dead in about a dozen ways for a couple of symptoms. Modern 'studies' for the most part are just rehashed beliefs of someone funding looking to reinforce it with a façade. for her own WHAT? Look back to my first reply of this post, anyone with the wits of a goose can see what's happening around the Harrenhal time. Spidersenses would have been crazy. She told you that herself? or anything or anyone else from the text. Figures, since all your arguments have been an egoistic defensive stance, nothing to do with the canon Violence is the law of the jungle, the rule of nature. Shielding our children completely from any and every aspect of it is the biggest blunder we can do. You teach your young to respect the wild, not fear and hate it. Thankfully our primal impulses are stronger than snobbish upbringings. I've ignored every red flag so far

Daenerys eats honeyed unborn dog pups IIRC Oh Cleganes?

The aporia of a wall of ice being sustained by a fire within is exciting. The author's long running subtle socio-political commentary in his works extends to it's environmental facet as well (with Star Wars peeking in everywhere, that's another parallel shared by these universes). It's fascinating to see the balance of moral questions and fantasy conundrums. Which one is chosen the superlative, which should be. Existential crises of varying magnitudes and impact.