butterweedstrover
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Posts posted by butterweedstrover
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23 minutes ago, Derfel Cadarn said:
If there is a god (probably not) he’ll be too busy dealing with the baby-raping Russians. And btw, aren’t the battles taking place in … Ukraine? Shouldn’t the Russians be like … not there killing people and bombing power stations/dams and other infrastructure?
There is a god because people believe there is one. Read Nietzsche or Dostoyevsky or Epicurus, people make reality. Our lives and our society are built upon our faith, what we choose determines the course not just of our existence but of our off-springs and what we pass down to them.
I am only saying god will not be forgiving, for he is immune to self-justification. He sees the excitement and thrill that goes down your spine each time you watch a video of an innocent Russian soldier being blown up because it helps you win an argument online. He knows the desire to sabotage the grain deal and conquer the black sea does not come from a place of international food security but from a desire for ultimate control.
But I also want you to know that I pray for all of you. And if on judgment day he decides upon punishment I will craft amulets to protect you. If he sends you down to the Labyrinth I will forge spears of malachite to save you from the beastly Minotaur. I will stand by your side because we are all human.
And because I have felt the way you have, though it shames me. In my desperation to see Russia survive and for western aims to be scuttled I have reacted with a degree of joy in hearing of a military victory, no matter how minor, and all because of this blasted war.
But this war must end, and I pray it will so that brother need not spill the blood of brother.
On a side note, celebrities like Mark Hamill who turn this war into a influencer game are poising decades of goodwill they have conjured so that does not bode well for them.
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Ukranians don’t want to keep dying so NATO can have full control over the Black Sea.
Bored westerners who sabotaged the grain deal by sanctioning Russian fertilizer and wheat, cheering on the death of thousands, all due to some sick sick obsession with ruling the world will not be looked on kindly by God.
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2 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:
And Putin is doubling down on his reliance upon Western historic illiteracy.
Come on you’re eager to offer apologia for the Russian dictator… why should the world ignore the Soviets invading Poland in conjunction with the Nazi’s? How the fuck do you, as a Russian apologist, defend this horseshit?
I was going to vacate this thread for a little while to wait and see how things develop, as I find no point in arguing with people who are fighting straw men with blind patriotic vigor.
But since you insist:
Poland had a history of being under Russian patronage before the Soviet Union. And what happened?
Polish culture (western Slav) was protected from being eaten up by the western empires. Germany, Austria, Britain, etc. would do nothing to safe guard Polish society as they share no commonality (Catholicism aside, Poland is a strictly Slavic country in every way that matters).
Russia controlled this region for decades and more so ostensibly through the Warsaw pact. And what did they do? They expanded Polish territory (unlike the Ukrainian nationalists who wanted them extinguished).
If as you assume Russia sought to destroy Polish statehood, they had ample opportunity. Instead they supported Polish identity, subsidized their economy, and grew their population.
Compare that to Hitler who wanted to replace Poles with Germans, there is no comparison. Russia did not try to alter the demographics so that eastern Slavs would outnumber western Slavs.
They grew the land and population. It was only when Poland ‘voluntarily’ integrated with the west that it started losing people. Why? Because western countries had no interest in fostering a Polish society, but sought to attract migrants for their own economies and then ‘assimilate’ the immigrants to their language, culture, and values.
Now THAT is colonialism.
But again, to make it seem the Soviet aim in Poland had anything to do with the German aim is historical revisionism to both sides the situation.
And where does this radically insane rhetoric comes from? Fascist organizations in Eastern Europe. I mean openly fascist, just like the right sector in Ukraine.
Yet mysteriously, when it fits their geopolitical ambitions, western liberals drop all their principles and values and differ to fascist rhetoric. Just like with the Banderites in Ukraine who want to make this a war against all Russian people.
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26 minutes ago, JGP said:
I don't know what ...Meatface... means.
The couple were the ones killed on the Kerch Bridge.
Incidentally, despite the normal incompetence, Ukraine has to lower themselves to terrorist actions. This wasn't a storm shadow strike on the railway, but a drone smuggled aboard a merchant ship. Just like last time it was a bomb on a fertilizer bus.
Such civilian/military disguises are going to cause better security against vehicles of 'commerce'.
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The country defending 'western values'.
As for the Grain Deal, hopefully this is a wake up call for Putin's mafia: the west doesn't want a deal, they want him dead. The problem is oligarchs love the west.
They have Yachats in St. Tropez, Mansions in Amalfi, Chalets in the Alps. They think business is just going to go back to usual once this is over and bygones will be bygones.
There was no attempt by the west to uphold the UN agreement allowing Russian grain or fertilizers, in fact they openly blocked such attempts. This 'deal' was just another one of Putin's fantasies.
He is growing old and stuck in his corrupt ways, always trying to play his stupid spy games at the risk of his entire country. The only hope for Russia is for these elites to wake up (like Prigozhin said) and realize this is a fight for survival, grain deals aren't going to work.
You fight to win or you die. Sadly, after they dropped the axe on Surovikin's ally for stopping the Orikhiv axis because they are too busy playing mind games in the Kremlin to pay attention to the war. The side that openly celebrates Nazis isn't working their way into a negotiated settlement. They want total victory no matter the cost.
I'm hoping this latest initiative is a sign that the idiots have got their heads out of the sand. But like always they might just put it back in once the going gets tough, they spent too many years in their little bubbles and don't want to get real.
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3 hours ago, Werthead said:
It would appear a more complex job to fix this time, with one roadway slanting to one side and falling into the sea.
Wert is the only person I can find in all my research from numerous sources, the only person even if including trolls on twitter, the ONLY person who suggests the damage is in any way more significant than last time.
There's a running theme here.
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6 minutes ago, Zorral said:
OK, I'll go with what you guys say, but you do understand I've never seen that person before until now, showing up here on this thread to spew hate and lies and determination to continue the same circular bullshyte accusations etc as facts. Over and over and over.
You have, we had a very nice encounter in the murder mystery thread.
But I love all of you anyways. Everyone believes they are immune to propaganda, and everyone else is not.
My love can never be killed though, no matter how many mental gymnastics people pull to deny what is going on.
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17 minutes ago, A wilding said:
To continue with the thread derail, I personally am finding the posts of our friend distinctly interesting. They do seem to be giving a real insight into what Russian propaganda wants people to think, and what many Russians presumably do think. There is a lot to pick out of them e.g.:
- Russia's unique culture entitles it to act like a 19th century expansionist power.
- It is faced by existential enemies who are simultaneously decadent (with a special emphasis on them tolerating LGBT people) and a deadly threat.
- Any setback in Russia's escalating series of military adventures will lead to a Gotterdammerung that will destroy Russia forever.
- Whatever the Ukrainians might think, they are not a separate people and have zero right to not be ruled from Moscow.
- In any case, most Ukrainians want Russian rule, apart from a small minority who have been brainwashed.
- The deaths of cannon fodder Russian conscripts are to be ignored, the deaths of soldiers fighting Russia are solely the fault of those resisting Russia or the shadowy powers behind them.
- Russian armies and occupying forces do not commit atrocities. Any apparent exceptions are caused by enemy combatants hiding amongst civilians, or some equally good justification.
Obviously, there is a fair amount from the fascist playbook in the above.
Perhaps more interestingly though, I am picking up echoes of the 5 stages of grief. Mostly denial and anger, but also touches of depression. The grief presumably relating to an image of Russia as a world bestriding Great Power having been destroyed.
Besides the fact no one ever said any of this, it’s interesting you need to create straw men to debate since the truth is just too obvious.
I find western propaganda to be a very interesting beast: it persuades polite liberals to hand wave ethnic cleansing as “forced assimilation” and dignify human wave tactics using kidnapped civilians as ‘sappers’.
Oh yeah, and genocidal fascism has been repackaged as anti-imperial sentiment.
Very Orwellian.
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15 minutes ago, Relic said:
Self-inflicted wound. Hard to feel any pity when you're murdering your neighbors on their soil.
You guys would be much better off if you did everything you could to get your current ruler away from power, and hope someone more sensible takes up the reigns.
It's not about some hypothetical 'justice' it's about the active military and political aims of Kiev and NATO to destroy Russia, not pursue negotiations.
And to achieve such extreme ends, they are using extreme methods. This collapse isn't based on gravity, but an incredibly obsession from western imperialist.
They will normalize genocidal rhetoric, promote ethnic cleansing, and kidnap Ukrainian civilians as human waves to break Russian defenses all so that a thousand year old civilization will crumble and be replaced by western hegemony.
13 minutes ago, A True Kaniggit said:1) Damn straight
You misunderstand, their objectives of removing the nationalist regime in Kiev were correct. The way they want about it was wrong.
13 minutes ago, A True Kaniggit said:2) Has this been thoroughly researched? I’m fairly certain Russia could withdraw it’s troops from Ukraine tomorrow and it will continue to exist.
We've been talking about it for multiple pages, but again this is not because of Moscow, but the actions you are taking to assure it's realization.
And anyone like myself who suggests you are wrong or extreme for trying to promote genocidal nationalism, military domination, and cultural erasure is branded a fascist.
Which shows you how successful propaganda works.
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3 minutes ago, Kalnak the Magnificent said:
Conversely, it is a very old tactic to dismiss and ignore anyone that disagrees with you as "falling for the propaganda" instead of engaging with them on their facts.
I will merely point out that there's only one poster in this thread who repeatedly links mainstream sources to back their viewpoint only to have those exact articles refute them. This implies a heavy filter of information where only the absolute most confirming data gets through and absolutely everything else gets removed, showing a complete inability to change mind or behavior based on facts.
I don't know if that's because of propaganda or indoctrination or a fervent need for preserving an identity, but it doesn't show any intelligent or rational ability to acknowledge reality or change behaviors.
If sources outside of Telegram and media you deem 'uncredited' gets leaks into the western mainstream sources, it's hard for people like you to deny.
Like the fact that Ukrainian mothers go through a process to find their kids who were evacuated from a warzone. But your conformation bias tells you this is genocide because legitimate authorities you rely upon (The US state department, the ICC, etc.) are telling you it is so.
But lets get back to the discussion, which people can't handle.
Russian shouldn't have invaded, but it cannot give up now or face total disintegration.
Kiev and NATO are aiming to disintegrate Russia based on their stated goals (militarily or otherwise).
But of course only the most extreme outcomes like the ethnic cleansing (excuse me: forced assimilation) of Crimea and Donetsk, the demilitarization of Russia, and the normalization of genocidal nationalist fantasies (Bandera was not a historian) can be considered, anything less is fascism.
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15 minutes ago, Zorral said:
As if a refugee from one of the Wagner troll farms that got shut down, yes? The trolling showed up right about then. I dunno.
Just noticing timelines coz that's what historians do. 
Just as historians take notice that the people of Ukraine are doing the fighting to rid their lands of the Russians, which in no way supports the trolling that Ukrainian people want to be Russian, ruled by Russian and told who their friends are and are not by Russia. Gee, one might think the people of Ukraine don't like it when Russians destroy their homes and cities and lands, murder them, rape and torture them, and steal their children, and order them to speak Russian and nothing else.
Geeze, I mean, the Ukrainian people are fighting very very very hard with every breath in their bodies, which why would they be doing this if it wasn't because Russia invaded them and they don't want Russia?
The facts that trolls don't bother with . . . .
The reason why Zorral, I think some people like yourself are unserious, is because you have to make straw men to argue against out of fear of dealing with the moral culpability your beliefs bring you.
The people of Ukraine don't want to be invaded or conquered. They also don't want to be kidnapped on the streets and thrown into the frontline as human waves.
But, trying to debate the substance of western military aims in Ukraine and the Nationalistic propaganda used to normalize ethnic cleansing and other extreme outcomes leads no where because some people have been too overcome by propaganda.
- Relic and Ser Scot A Ellison
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49 minutes ago, Spockydog said:
I get this isn't directed at me, but people who can't differentiate between Russia making a mistake with their initial invasion and Russian having perfectly sound reasons for not surrendering in mass.
But I don't think those people are trolls, they really believe the propaganda, and it's hard to overcome. Many people have fallen for war propaganda and the dehumanization of the enemy since the dawn of time.
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45 minutes ago, Erik of Hazelfield said:
What exactly does absorption into the “liberal West” mean and how are the countries homogenised?
I mean, last time I checked France, Germany, Sweden, Finland, Poland, Turkey and so on were pretty different from each other. You don’t have to give up your language, culture or traditions just because you join a military alliance.
I have so many questions about this liberal empire. Being Swedish, I guess I’m part of it. Do I belong to one of the suppressed peoples of the empire or the ruling class? Where is this empire being ruled from anyway?
Turkey is a little bit different because the nationalists fell behind what is support for political islam, an ideology that conflicts with western values.
As for the rest, they all share the same values one way or another. On immigration, sexual identity, racial integration, gender roles, drugs, etc.
They evolve at different times, but the trajectory is the same.
With Poland you might think they are an exception, but they are part of the same role. The only difference is that unlike Sweden, Germany, the US, etc. that absorb migrants to help bolster their economy and demographics, they are (or have been) the country that provides the labor, hence such a demographic collapse.
As long as Russia exists, Polish nationalists align with the liberal world order to destroy its enemy. Once its gone, Polish nationalism will become an obstacle to integration into the greater 'European' community.
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7 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:
Yes, we get you think Russia has a blood right to dominate Ukraine.
It doesn't give them the right, it just helps explain the social and political context between Ukraine and Russia.
7 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:By subjugation of it though conquest and this level of coercion is not sound and rational.
Tactics are debatable. But if you believe the goals are sensible, that opens the door to negotiations. However certain western elements have decided that they don't want to negotiate, in fact they want to remove Russia as an independent power with its own security interests separate to those of NATO.
7 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:It is largely. It’s not anymore morally complex than Hitler’s take over the Sudetenland.
Hitler's plan was to rearm Germany. Putin's is to stop the demilitarization of Russia.
Morally I can't say, politically they are very different.
7 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:Which land has Ukraine taken from Russia that don’t follow under their internationally recognized borders?
The reason you use that term "internationally recognized borders" is to normalize the plan to remove Russian military and Russian people from lands they have lived for nearly a thousand years at this point.
But again, these disclaimers are useless as if/when China invades Taiwan, you won't be hearing about "internationally recognized borders."
7 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:That’s not what ethnic cleansing means bud. At best it’s assimilation.
Ah, the politically correct term for ethnic cleansing. "Forced assimilation."
How far you have fallen morally due to propaganda. The people that have laid a soul like yours astray should be punished.
7 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:Which in this particular case can be argued as good and practical to some extent.
The forcible removal of people, arrest of religious leaders, execution of 'collaborators', and tying innocent people to lamp posts in the middle of winter are all tactics tried by Ukraine which you call "practical and good."
These atrocities will grow to a massive scale once they have Crimea and Donetsk.
7 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:No.
The problem comes when they refuse to adapt. A Russian speaker who supports Ukrainian nationalism can eventually change. One that does not follow the lie which is Ukrainian nationalism must be removed.
7 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:They’ll probably act as the allies did after liberating Germany.
Allied forces in the western half tried to preserve Germans, ethnic cleansing will be more reminiscent of what happened in the territory handed over to Poland.
7 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:Well the better allies. Not the soviets lol.
On no, there won't be an airdrop of candy in Crimea or Donetsk, just brutal repression, religious prosecution, and removal of a significant portion of the population that doesn't agree with the Banderaites.
7 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:So you think the West has serious plans to arrest Putin?
They (the US) helped craft the warrant, this wasn't the ICC going out on a limb. They did it to help disintegrate the current regime in Moscow.
7 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:You do understand if such a thing was tried it’d be ww3 and likely the end of the world?
If he were arrested while visiting a foriegn country? Yes. If the regime collapses in Moscow then no, Putin just becomes some random person.
And like I said, the military aims of the west aren't about achieving peace, but the total destruction of Russia.
7 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:The way you frame your opposition despite your howls for nuance when defending your side is absurd.
I don't frame anything. I just listen to what they say and believe them. They back a peace proposal which necessitates the prosecution of Russian officials BEFORE talks can begin, and they endorse an arrest warrant of the head of state. They are looking to reorganizing the Russian government, not dealing with independent actors.
7 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:Still waiting for the evidence the US formented a coup in 2014 Ukraine.
They supported the 'revolution' financially, diplomatically, but more importantly:
western NGOs helped craft a transition government, which is their only option once the Putin regime collapses and they decide to 'take charge'.
7 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:I’m more generous.
Well, you're not the one making decisions.
7 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:I’m not a fan of the first half. Second part is fine enough to an extent where the cultural and sports endeavors are state sponsored.
And yet athletes, composures, and even drinks referencing Russia are banned. This sort of cultural erasure is not done with the intent of creating a new stable regime, but ending the idea of Russia as a state all together.
7 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:Unfortunate if true.
And yet it is just a microcosm of how the west is expected to treat the Russian identity. It's what happens when genocidal rhetoric originally isolated to the rantings of Bandera become mainstream.
7 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:Jesus Christ more hyper fixating on bloodlines.
Oh god, listen to what I'm saying. I know about how Iranian culture is celebrated in the west because of first hand experience.
A major antigovernmental lobbying group in Washington holds Nowruz celebrations where major generals are invited, I've been there.
Dissidents are uplifted and culture is glorified to make way for a 'new' Iran.
Russia is different, liberal dissidents are rejected and its culture erased because the plan isn't for there to be a new Russia, but no Russia at all.
7 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:I don’t know what you mean by celebrated?
Championed, appreciated, celebrated.
7 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:Cuba has been frozen out by the US economically largely due to a lot of those Cuban dissidents hating the communist regime.
That's their economy. The dissidents in Miami with deep cultural pride are promoted. No one sees them being tarnished for making Cuban Cigars are being proud of their culture.
7 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:Again clarification.
Russian liberals aren't treated the same way. Because being against Putin isn't enough.
7 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:No listen to the context of how different people use the same turn of phrase or information.
They use Bandera's language because they believe in it. They believe the true Slavic successor state is Ukraine, and their aim is to dismantle any notion of an independent Russian government.
7 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:Fortunately not—again please stop projecting Russia’s ambitions for Ukraine onto the West.
It's the truth of ever western satellite state.
You believe your empire is different from all others in history. You believe western imperialism is benevolent and seeks to provide freedom to all its subjects.
You are not the first, every imperialist believes their project is different. It's not, but tactics change. Understand how international finance, military aid, and diplomatic pressure exist and look at western allied states. The goal has never been freedom, and to be honest that would be kind of stupid for them anyways.
7 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:Wait what?
If Russia loses, those people involved will be prosecuted.
6 hours ago, horangi said:If the above is the cost of Russian forces leaving Ukraine, I'm all for it. I'd suspect the Tuvans and Chechans would be OK with this scenario. As a professed Banderite, I do think Antonio would be a better leader of the Moscow successor state, purely based on his performances as Puss in Boots.
Good for you, at least you admit the goal is the destruction of Russia as a geopolitical unit. Can't blame them for fighting back though can you.
Or do you prefer your prey to lay down and give up.
6 hours ago, horangi said:Out of curiosity, what's your hangup over the Black Sea Fleet? You do realize that after the recent promotion of the Moskva to submarine, the fleet is made up of 5 frigates, a handful of diesel-electric Kilos, and various smaller ships which are best used to terrorize Ukrainian grain ships? In a war with NATO, the fleet would be converted into several reefs in a matter of hours and whatever was left would have the Bosporus, the Med, and Gibraltar before even getting to the open ocean. I do realize that "seeking a warm-water port" is the answer to just about every question regarding Russia at trivia night at the local pub, but I'd think that ship has sailed by now.
The black sea being dominated by an adversarial power puts all Russian military capacities into a chokehold.
Without an ability to hold to project military power, Russia becomes a lame duck. And seeing as a unified Russian state can't exist as a western puppet, it will disintegrate.
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28 minutes ago, Lord of Oop North said:
Why even talk to this looney tune?
He literally said Russian HAD to invade, otherwise it will lead to the collapse of Russia. Come on.
Meanwhile, because of this war, the fuckwit in charge of Russia has probably brought Russia closer to collapse than it has ever been since 1991.
No, I was against the initial invasion.
I said now that western military tactics have changed, Russia has to fight on or witness its disintegration. Which is the aim of the Kiev-NATO alliance.
I would love for cooler heads to prevail in the west and for their to be a push for a negotiated settlement, not just the total collapse of the Russian military and prosecution of the Russian state.
But alas, these cooler heads are yet to be found.
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9 hours ago, SeanF said:
@butterweedstroverSelf defence, emphasising Ukraine’s separateness from Russia, are not “genocide” or “ethnic cleansing.”
Russia’s treatment of Ukraine over the past century comes much closer to being genocidal than do arguments over language rights.
8 hours ago, JGP said:The taffy is getting stretched pretty thin, Butter.
So, the heart of your arguments herein over the last while pare down to:
International partners aiding in the defense of Ukraine need to stop, because
- Russia needed to continue its 2014 aggression
- otherwise Russia, as Mother Matryoshka, would've eventually been destroyed anyway
- but it doesn't really matter if Ukraine is destroyed, considering Ukraine is little Matryoshka
I mean, help me out here, but it kind of sounds like by continuing to help Ukraine survive this onslaught we'd also be... aiding in the preservation of Russian culture?
Making up historical lies to "emphasis differences" does not end at its utilitarian point of view. We have to look at the content of this historical revisionism.
In the case of Ukraine, they borrow verbatim from genocidal sources. Not to create a separate identity for themselves, but to denigrate and rewrite the history of Moscow.
They frame 'Russia' as fake Slavs, genetically inferior to the real "Kievan Rus" and then advocate the removal of its cultural and religious influences. The problem is, ethnicity in the Russian world is determined by political and cultural alligence.
A Ukrainian who speaks Russian, follows the Moscow Patriarch, and promotes Russian culture is classified as "ethnically' Russia. And Kiev's goal in removing this distinction is to cleanse its society of that unwanted demographic.
Yet they also want to conquer territory where even more of these "populations" reside, because the aim isn't to protect Ukrainian statehood anymore, but to destroy Russian statehood as to return the role of "Kievan Rus" from Moscow back to Kiev.
Saying Ukraine is only defending itself ignores the fact that its own government sees it's survival as the end of a unified Russian state. That is their goal, and now forces in Moscow are fighting for their own survival as well.
As for aiding Russian culture, a Ukraine without Russia will, regardless of its nationalistic elements, be absorbed into the 'liberal' west as the goal of any empire is to homogenize the cultures within its boundaries.
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9 hours ago, A True Kaniggit said:
You are the one equaling Russia withdrawing from an invasion it started to a surrender.
That's silly.
The war can end as soon as Russian soldiers leave Ukraine.
You want the invasion to continue? YOU want Russian soldiers to die.
Quack quack.
What was it that you said my little bipedal friend? Russia is "invading" Ukraine as we speak. Not Russia "invaded" Ukraine.
It's awkward phrasing though I don't know if english is your first language. Assuming it is though you have a lot of reason to reframe troops in the defensive position as 'invading'.
D-day was called the "allied invasion" of Europe. Invasion, a force broaching the grounds where some other power is entrenched.
There is no span of time allotted for when an occupying force gains control. They gain control the moment... they have control. All else is an attempt to dislodge them, hence invasion.
Your support of the current offensive comes out of a desire for military victory, not peace. Everyone supports peace once they have achieved total victory, and you're not willing to compromise on your goals.
So yes, a retreat will lead to the necessary political environment for negotiations. Negotiations of surrender.
However, first you have to accept what the military aims of the Kiev-NATO alliance is. Not a return to the status quo, but the complete destruction of the Russian state. Those are the parameters set for achieving peace talks:
1. Complete military domination of Sevastopol and Donetsk city
2. Prosecution of state actors
3. Demilitarization of the black sea fleet
Now I've explained why these things will lead to the collapse of the Russian state, and much worse. But you have to decide to engage beyond the level a troll would, elsewise we get nowhere.
Your position as far as Russian soldiers is that: if they don't get out of your way you kill them. So be clear, your opposition to a ceasefire comes out because you want them to die, actually you need them to die. Which is why dehumanizing them as 'orcs' is easier than dealing with the consequences of your actions.
Again, take that up with your priest, I can't help.
9 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:Hahahahahahahaha.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA.
Wait , I'm sorry, but, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA.HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA.HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Calling Russia the victim for invading a foreign country and then sucking ass at it? You're a peach.
Removing context once against Tywin, because we can't keep a coherent conversation going for long.
If you pursue aims that guarantee the collapse of Russia, then blame Russia from bringing about their own collapse... you are shifting blame away to yourself and onto the victim.
I am sure Putin specifically (a creation of the west) holds partial blame. But that doesn't change the active decisions you (or your leaders) are making right now to bring this about.
And if someone opposes such outcomes, they're a fascist or a troll. Because you like everyone else rooting for a side in war since the beginning of man are victim, a victim of propaganda. And it would be victim blaming to judge you for falling down a path many others already have.
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47 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:
So… since you seem to think “the West” is the source of all evil… are you going to tell us that Iranian women love being beaten and murdered for choosing not to wear headscarves? That the unrest in Iran has all been as a result of the corrupting influence of “the West”?
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/world/watch-women-and-girls-are-still-protesting-in-iran-heres-why
I can't help you Scot. The post you're quoting has nothing to do with the content of your reply.
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1 hour ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:
Who here on this site agrees with you? Who here have you convinced of anything?
You… are… trolling.
1 hour ago, A True Kaniggit said:But why do you want Russian soldiers to die?
They wouldn't have to if they weren't invading Ukraine.
53 minutes ago, A True Kaniggit said:I find it so sad that @butterweedstrover wants Russian soldiers to die in Ukraine.
It's interesting, and I might as well add the penguin in my reply: people here view this war through the propaganda they are taught, same as the Russians. Which makes these discussions difficult.
The Penguin for example believes I want Russian soldiers to die. But then supports the same people who celebrate their deaths and calls them Orcs.
I support a ceasefire but also acknowledge that surrendering will lead to the collapse of the Russian state.
Now, if you take these two separate points and conclude what the penguin does, I question how emotionally prepared or serious you are.
But alas, the penguin is not an isolated case, just a microcosm of how politics is controlled in the 'free' and 'democratic' west.
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1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:
There's a difference between trolling and fucking with someone who is a friend. I didn't even mention you.
I was referencing Penguin, I quoted you to emphasize the support such lack of engagement and understanding receives.
1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:And to be clear, the only thing that's atrocious is the Russian invasion of Ukraine. The entire premise has been not just a lie, but an extremely lazy lie. And Russia failed really fucking badly in its pursuit to take over a country that loudly said they didn't want them to. So shut the fuck up about how Russia has some claim over the people of Ukraine. They don't, and their bitch asses got smacked in the face showing the whole world how weak the country is. Russia is going to be a failed state soon because of Putin's actions, not because of something an outsider did. Wake up you idiot.
Ah yes, victim blaming. You support actions that will lead to the collapse of Russia, and then blame the victim for bringing it about. Does Putin share blame? Yes. Does that change the fact that you are aggressively supporting the most extreme measures to bring down a geopolitical foe and dominate Eastern Europe? No.
1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:
(sorry mods, I know, language, but this moron doesn't deserve decency)It's a tad bit interesting that, as a matter of fact, I never claimed Moscow has a right to political control over the territory of Ukraine. I said two separate things:
1. Historically, Biologically, and Culturally, Ukraine and Russia are both Rus. They are the same people.
2. Russian imperial interests in keeping Ukraine from being controlled by western backed nationalist is rational and sound.
Much of your gun-ho pro-war attitude comes from the idea that Russia is acting based on an irrational desire to rule, not from a rational desire to protect itself.
And that is the excuse you use to support the most extreme measure. The anger in your voice doesn't come from self-righteous rage, but guilt for support genocidal rhetoric, fascist political aims of ethnic cleansing, and unending military conquest that just helps some cronies in the defense industry while massacre mobilized Ukrainian innocents.
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1 minute ago, Tywin et al. said:
Shut up with your obvious penguin facts!
The funniest part is, you guys are trolling seeing as you just repeat yourself with no sign of delving into the discussion any deeper.
But to be clear, I think your political aims in Ukraine are atrocious, and its predicated on the desire to escalate the conflict and increase the brutality of war, not achieve peace.
It actually makes me want to vomit and scream into a pillow
46 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:Kyiv. You do not speak for the people of Ukraine. You are here trolling.
It's Moskva, not Moscow.
It's Firenze, not Florence.
It's Türkiye, not Turkey.
No actually, this is just blind nationalist revisionism, creating a new Latin term that does not even lead to the same pronunciation as the Ukrainian version. Trying to erase history is the work of fascists.
But again, your support for blind evil doesn't come from malice, just propaganda, same as everyone.
War has a long history, and everyone since the beginning of time believed their side is good and the others were satanic. You are no different Scot, you are the same as everyone else.
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31 minutes ago, A True Kaniggit said:
True or false. Russia should immediately withdraw from Ukrainian territory to end the war.
No, that would lead to the collapse of the Russian state, as I have explained many times.
The powers in Kiev aren't peaceful liberals, they want Russia removed from the Slavic world, they want to cleanse any religious/political/cultural supporters from their land, and they want to shift the center of economic gravity from Moscow to Kiev like during Kievan Rus.
It's western backers want the arrest of Moscow's political leaders, the seizure of the black sea fleet, and to turn this continent spanning empire into an impotent backwater.
What happens when Moscow loses its geopolitical independence? the break up of the country as a whole and the end of a unified RUSsian state as we know it.
So no, giving up isn't an option for them.
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45 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:
That’s not what ethnic cleansing means chief.
It is when all Ukrainians who follow the Moscow orthodoxy, speak Russian, promote Russian culture, politically support closer ties with Russia, etc. are given a choice to have a change of opinion.
Or else be cleansed. What do you think is going to happen when Ukrainian nationalists (the government) occupy Crimea or Donetsk city? They are all going to bask in liberal democracy and have a debate of opinion? Or are they forcibly going to change the demographics?
That is what your military aim doesn't consider.
You support genocidal rhetoric, condone ethnic cleansing, then want those same powers to dominate territory where people might not agree.
Actually, that is the same position as China via Taiwan, only more extreme because unlike the CCP, Banderites think Ukraine is racially superior to the 'fake' slavs.
45 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:Which elites?
All the ones that matter. Once you arrest them who is going to be in charge of this new transition government? Nalvany? No, it's going to be a western backed transition government like in Kiev circa 2014.
The difference is a unified Russian state can't exist without geopolitical independence, hence it will break up.
45 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:It’s fine to call Russian soldiers who murder and rape orks. If you don’t want to be called orks don’t act like fantasy villains.
That's not the stipulation. They call all Russian soldiers orcs and make fun of them when they die no matter who.
And that is just the first step in genocidal rhetoric which Banderites are promoting in the west. Then they start making fun of Russian citizens who get eaten by sharks on vacation, they normalizing the banning of Russian culture, sports teams, etc.
Even one of my favorite youtube channels delisted a video just for complementing the Moscow metro system (!!)
Ask yourself, did this happen with any of the other western foes? Cuba? Iran?
No, Persian culture (I have normal Persian-Azerbaijani blood) is endlessly celebrated in the west, same with Cuba and Cuban dissidents.
Russian liberals (anti-Putin) aren't celebrated, nor is their culture, because genocidal goals have reshaped the dialogue.
Which you support.
45 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:Also it’s usually used in trying to nullify the point of Russia having a blood right to Ukraine.
No, listen to what the Bandera supporters say, not what you want them to say.
They and government officals in Kiev discredit claims that the Russian state has anything to do with Kievan Rus, that they are illegitimate slavs who are actually from the golden hoard, that pure slav culture needs to remove the Russian taint.
What does that mean when being a Russian just means a Ukrainian who identifies with the Russian world? Ethnic cleansing, which is what your policies are leading towards.
45 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:Honestly don’t like it since in the end Russia doesn’t have the right to rape and plunder and annex their neighbors because of past relationships with them.
No, and their goal isn't to rape and plunder, but to remove western military and security interests entangled with this new government, a government dedicated to the destruction of the Russian state (listen to Budanov some time, not just Girkin).
Obviously this is very important for Russian imperial interests, and imperialism is their state. Yet western imperialists are so power hungry they want to force themselves into every place even if that means arming Nazis and sacrificing an entire population to break the backs of a political enemy.
45 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:The only way Ukraine becomes a democracy is when it’s free of Russia.
'Democracy' in this case is just a term for a western dominated liberal democracy, which means a country with no military or financial (or diplomatic) independence.
45 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:It is.
Russia could have not invaded. Russia can simply leave Ukraine and try investing internally to fix its domestic problems.
It cannot just leave. The west is clear it wants to remove the government in Moscow, destroy the black sea fleet, and turn Russia into an impotent backwater dominated by competing interests.
If it backs out know, it is over. That arrest warrant for Putin was crafted alongside the US state department, and the Banderites in Kiev want the economic power of the slavic world to shift from Moscow to Kiev, these are there plans and they don't hide them either.
45 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:
So long as it keeps acting like an asshole Sure.
Your government doesn't plan to forgive and forget, they want to use this opportunity to finish the Russian state once and for all.
45 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:So who got punished for Butcha?
Because they haven't lost yet. But if they do, then Bucha will only be the tip of the iceberg.
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12 minutes ago, Celestial said:
.
I would also add something: debating with the troll is not as pointless as you think. Of course, he'll never acknowledge any fact, but other people can get better informed on different aspects of the conflict from your rebuttals.
Wtf, I’m not a troll.
A person you disagree with isn’t a troll. Actually these rebuttals don’t do anything.
I say Ukraine’s aim at de-Russifying the country amounts to ethnic cleansing when Ukrainians who identify with the Russian world refuse.
I say the western aim of militarily occupying the Black Sea and having the Russian elite arrested will lead to two things:
1. De-facto occupation of a new government
2. the collapse of a unified Russian state
I say the government in Kiev displays genocidal rhetoric by claiming (like Bandera) that Ukraine is older than Russia and that their enemies are orcs.
And I question why western liberals repeat this rhetoric verbatim if the Bandera ideology was relegated to a few far right militias.None of this is conducive of a democratic environment, hence I question the war aims of western leaders and the destruction of Russia, not just as a country but as a culture and its religious organs.
People here respond with saying: it’s black and white, Russia is evil, Russia must be punished.
They hand wave genocidal rhetoric by trying to attribute the rape of children as part and parcel of being a Russian soldier and baseless claim these acts are (for all intent and purpose) sanctioned by Moscow.
All to make the goal of destroying all of Russia seem moderate and reasonable.
So yeah, I think these people, just like Russians, are subsiding off of propaganda, hence the total unanimity and cult like following in pursuit of Ukrainian victory’.
To you that means I’m either serious in which case I’m a genocidal fascist or I lie in which case I’m a troll.
Not surprising then that I think your the ones who have fallen victim to propaganda.
Ukraine: Breakthroughs… the vast majority of us hope…
in General Chatter
Posted · Edited by butterweedstrover
Think like god would for a second and you'll get your answer.
It's about the video, not the user handle.
I hope your dad finds what he needs, just know god is our creation. We created him, we decided he is real, and his power is derived from us. If ever you feel too weak or helpless to make a difference, know that he and you are not so far apart.