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Everything posted by CamiloRP

  1. Woah. Thanks a lot!
  2. thanks! Yeah, the stories omitted from it are really weird to omit too
  3. CamiloRP


    Hi! does anyone know which GRRM works are and aren't in Dreamsongs? I googled, but I'm lousy at it. Thanks!
  4. Yes, I agree with this. This tho... she can use it as a prop sometimes, but it comes from a fundamental belief in her. own superiority, and sometimes she uses it plainly as a show of superiority. "I am khaleesi, heir to the Seven Kingdoms, the blood of the dragon," Dany reminded him. "It is not for you to tell me what I cannot do."
  5. One of the reasons I said, is it the biggest one? not by a long shot, but it's an argument she uses. And yes, she is better than Viserys, because she changes over her journey, she adapts and she learns, she still has a lot of learning to do tho, that's why I think that in the end she will not go for the throne, because she will in time learn how that's another tool of oppression. First of all, the Starks doing it doesn't mean Dany is right to do it, just that both are wrong, there's a phrase in my country 'the wrongness of many is the comfort of the fool'. And as I said before, yes, all houses feel superior to others based on their blood, Ned even ties this to morality, and feels that Starks are in general morally superior to the Lannisters, as I write about in War Won't Save The World, but even then you where able to provide me with 10 examples over 53 chapters in one book, while there is 17 examples in Dany's 10 chapters in the same book, because she thinks about it more. All nobles feel superior to the smallfolk, yes, and even some houses feel superior to some other houses the Starks based on their First Men blood, the Arryns based on being the purest of Andals and the Tyrells based on descending from Garth Greendhand, and every house feels superior to the Freys, but there's no house or no individual who feels superior to all other houses based purely on their blood. Tywin thinks he's above everyone, but that's based on his money and him thinking he's smarter than he is, not on blood. Of all the houses only the Targaryens think blood makes them better than absolutely anyone else, a lesson Dany has internalized. Also, I want to clarify that some of your examples don't count in my opinion, as they are threats, Arya and Bran, for example, Arya isn't being let in into KL, and Bran is near to be killed, they are saying 'this is who I am, so you better don't fuck with me cause I can fuck with you back' is the medieval version of 'my father is a lawyer' which, yes, is prickly and entitled, but I don't think it counts as a show of them thinking they are better (tho they definitely do), in those situations you use the tools you have. Before she meets him, Dany thinks Drogo is a savage barbarian, she then meets him and realices he's not... because that's how prejudice works, humans can't be savages, so to destroy prejudice the only thing you need is to know intimately someone whom you are prejudiced against, most people aren't willing to, but Dany had no choice. Yes, I never said they never married outside their family, but they don't get points for that, the norm for Targs was marrying family members, they are by much the most inbred family in fiction or real life, and just because they wanted to keep their blood pure. Nah, I showed instances of her using her blood to put herself above people, and this is not the same as Bran or Arya doing it, because Bran and Arya can back up their claim with armies, Dany only has her blood. When Bran says 'Im Bran Stark of Winterfell, touch me and I'll fuck you up.' the first part lets the person he's speaking to know that he can indeed fuck them up, because he can command armies. When Dany says "I'm the blood of the dragon, do as I say" she's just sayin 'my blood makes me better than you. It's not my idea, George talks a lot about deconstruction and subverting expectations, most stories he's written deconstruct the ideas presented in ASOIAF, and ASOIAF itself mentions this issues, like blood meaning nothing to the Freefolk or every time they question someone ruling over land based on inheritance and blood, like Nettles being able to ride a dragon despite not having any Targaryen blood, like Varys 'power is a shadow on the wall' speech. Who is the one character more obsessed with bloodlines than Dany? Melissandre, a woman who serves a religion so awful that they burn people alive because they think differently, a woman who's basically the same character as the villain in GRRM's best book, and even her wants Mance's blood as king's blood, even tho he has no royal ascendance. Stories aren't just plot, they also have themes and subtext, and in ASOIAF, these deconstruct the story itself. Martin is a very political writer, he has spent most of his career writing about the evils of war, exploitation and othering, he wouldn't change that in his magnus opus, would he? And here is an inteerview that refutes your statement that she sees herself above others: “On the ADWD cover for Brazil, I put Daenerys at the top of the stairs of the meereenese pyramid. I had undoubtedly been, unconsciously, influenced by the series. And George told me that Daenerys wants equality for everyone, she wants to be at the same level as her people, so I had her climb down to keep it consistent” - Marc Simonetti https://www.lagardedenuit.com/interview-de-marc-simonetti-2018/ Yes, she grows, she wants equality, and she will realice more and more how much she needs to change to achieve it, in the world and herself, but now, she still envisions herself in the top.
  6. Yes, but this story deconstructs those notions. None of them as much as Dany tho, and still, two wrongs don't make a right. In her treatment of the smallfolk she's better, and yes, Dany is one of the coolest, most progressive characters in the stoyr, but she also sees other nobles as beneath her based on her blood.
  7. By this he means the Halfhand and literally no one else. Danerys says/thinks the phrases Blood of the Dragon and Blood of Valyria around forty times while having a third of the chapters the Starks have, and that's without counting the times others saying this about her.
  8. As I said, Viserys raised her thinking that, and she believes him, she doesn't disagree with him in that part, in fact, she agrees with this, while disagreeing to marry Drogo, partially based on this. And the following quotes support her being obsessed with her bloodline. The wolf's blood is not used by the Starks, its used somewhat pejoratively to paint them as savages. and the phrase "Blood of Winterfell" is used only four times in the entire story, twice by Jon, once by Sansa and once by the Halfhand, the Starks collectively have 106 chapters, compared to Dany's 31 chapters. So the Phrase 'Blood of Winterfell" is used by Starks 0,028 times per Stark chapter, while 'Blood of the Dragon" is used by Dany 17 times in AGOT alone, averaging 1,7 times per chapter, because Dany is obsessed with her bloodline and the superiority of her blood. No other character talks about their bloodline as much as Dany. Why i it her duty to do that? the Targaryens were kicked out of Westeros, with help from the smallfolk, people didn't want them there. Is it her duty because the Targaryen are special? Why would having the blood of the dragon make her strenght? is it because the blood of the dragon is superior? This is her claiming that, because of her blood, Jorah can't limit her, because her blood makes her superior to him. Why is she not nothing? does her blood make her special? Again, why would her blood give her courage? does her blood make her better? Again, why does her blood make her not nothing? No, what I showed is that she was raised with the notion that her blood makes her superior to everyone else, that her blood is 'golden' that her bloodline must be kept pure and that the rest of men are less than her, because of her blood. She comes from a family that embodies this notions, that practiced incest regularly based on this notions. I showed that Daenerys thinks about her bloodline much, much more than any other character in the story, and that she uses her blood to signify that she's someone to take seriously, meaning that people without her special blood shouldn't be taken seriously, and to give her courage, because Dragons don't fear, fear is for lesser creatures, like non-Targaryens. But even ignoring all this, based on her upbringing and the history of her family, we should assume she thinks her blood makes her better than anyone else until proven differently. If we talk about a white man from the 1700s we would all assume he thinks he's better than black people, and we would need evidence of the contrary to think otherwise, especially if this man was raised by massive racist who thought him that having sex with non-white people was wrong, and even more so if this man talked about how he was 'the blood of Europe' as a reason to be respected, claim that people who aren't the 'blood of Europe' can't tell him what to do and to give himself courage. Yet, despite all this, you think Dany doesn't think she's special based on her blood, why is that? what leads you to think in that way?
  9. The line must be kept pure, Viserys had told her a thousand times; theirs was the kingsblood, the golden blood of old Valyria, the blood of the dragon. Dragons did not mate with the beasts of the field, and Targaryens did not mingle their blood with that of lesser men. Yet now Viserys schemed to sell her to a stranger, a barbarian. So she sat in her wedding silks, nursing a cup of honeyed wine, afraid to eat, talking silently to herself. I am blood of the dragon, she told herself. I am Daenerys Stormborn, Princess of Dragonstone, of the blood and seed of Aegon the Conqueror. I am the blood of the dragon, she told herself again. "I am the blood of the dragon," she whispered aloud as she followed, trying to keep her courage up. "I am the blood of the dragon. I am the blood of the dragon." The dragon was never afraid. They were both blood of the dragon. "You are the dragon," Dany whispered to him, "the true dragon. I know it. I know it." And she smiled, and went to sleep dreaming of home. I am the blood of the dragon, she told herself as she took the stallion's heart in both hands, lifted it to her mouth, and plunged her teeth into the tough, stringy flesh. If I were not the blood of the dragon, she thought wistfully, this could be my home. Dany stroked the swell of her belly gently, wishing she could reach him, touch him, soothe him. "You are the blood of the dragon, little one," she whispered as her litter swayed along, curtains drawn tight. "You are the blood of the dragon, and the dragon does not fear." I am the blood of the dragon, Daenerys Targaryen reminded herself as she turned her face away. She pressed her lips together and hardened her heart and rode on toward the gate. "I am khaleesi, heir to the Seven Kingdoms, the blood of the dragon," Dany reminded him. "It is not for you to tell me what I cannot do." Dany felt a tightness inside her. "Before I was khaleesi, I was the blood of the dragon. Ser Jorah, summon my khas." "Do it," Dany blurted. She must not be afraid; she was the blood of the dragon. "Save him." "Death?" Dany wrapped her arms around herself protectively, rocked back and forth on her heels. "My death?" She told herself she would die for him, if she must. She was the blood of the dragon, she would not be afraid. Her brother Rhaegar had died for the woman he loved. She lifted her head. "And I am Daenerys Stormborn, Daenerys of House Targaryen, of the blood of Aegon the Conqueror and Maegor the Cruel and old Valyria before them. I am the dragon's daughter, and I swear to you, these men will die screaming. Now bring me to Khal Drogo." "Viserys is dead. I am his heir, the last blood of House Targaryen. Whatever was his is mine now." The heat beat at the air with great red wings, driving the Dothraki back, driving off even Mormont, but Dany stood her ground. She was the blood of the dragon, and the fire was in her. And that's just for AGOT, you are free to use A Search Of Ice And Fire to see way more examples, and yes, I know in the first example she's quoting Viserys, but that's how she was raised, and how she thinks, as I believ I showed.
  10. I couldn't possibly agree more. this is saving the world tho, she can do it without the throne, and is separate from the conquest.
  11. The Targaryen claim to power was always doused with blood superiority, Valiryans always saw themselves as superior, and Dany's story follows that too 'blood of the dragon', she and a lot of people around her think she's special because of her blood. Everyone in the series believes in birthright, yes, but they also believe in right of conquest. Dany has no claim to the IT based on blood, her dynasty was ended by Robert's Rebelion, the only one who has a claim through blood is Stannis, and he would be a shit king. The Starks waged war for the sake of Ned, which was debatable, and then for their freedom, which is the oposite of conquest. In the future someone would wage war for conquest in the name of the Starks, yes, but this is mostly due to the fact that the Boltons are shit rulers and the Starks were not, if the Boltons were better rulers than the Starks there would be less support for the Stark cause. There is no support for the Targaryen cause, except for Dorne, which I don't buy.
  12. I don't think the others get scot free, throughout the story every war waging character is seen as a villain in a way, the Lannisters are vilains, Stannis is a vilain, the Iron Born are villains, and, while their cause was a bit more just (freeing themselves from foreign rule) the Riverlands' smallfolk think the Northerners are almost as bad as the Lannisters. Also, Dany doesn't want what was of her family back, she wants to rule over Westeros because she feels she deserves it, she feels it's her right, because she thinks she has special blood and is superior to everyone, and that's villanous. But Dany is battling that form of thinking too tho, she fights the slavers, who think they are superior to the slaves, and Dany knows it to be false, so she will eventually know she has no right to rule and that her blood doesn't make her special, at least that's what I hope.
  13. The story is about that tho, it highlights the moral failings of the period and the horror of war, as I said above: So I don't think it's unfair to point out these things, and I do think Dany would either realice conquering Westeros would be wrong, or conquer it anyway and be framed as a villain (or at least wrong in doing so)
  14. Yeah, Westeros won't turn into a giant hippy commune by story's end, but it can certainly improve, Dornish Law seems to contain a lot of social justice in it, and the Night' Watch, Iron Born and even Freefolk all have kinda-democracies, this influences can bring some positive change.
  15. The thing is that the Starks living in the North thousands of years after it was taken from the COTF is not the same as, or even similar to, Dany bringing war to Westeros to take her 'birthright', that's actually more comparable to the COTF invading the North and killing all the lords. Let me be clear, Dany conquering Westeros would be bad, in the same way Aegon doing it was bad, or Renly trying to, or Stannis trying to, or Baelon and Joffrey trying to conquer the North, all they are or would be doing is causing a large amount of death and suffering for their pride.
  16. yeah, absolutely, tho I think that part fo what Martin tries to question is the glorification of medieval times, and in that sense, something that is wrong now, was equally wrong then.
  17. Hey, you are the one who asked a question who had nothing to do with anything completely out of nowhere. Some of those questions are posed by the story tho. Ygritte talks to Jon about how the land is everyone's land, that Westerosi just stole it by putting a Wall in the middle of it, and the solution we are reaching with the Freefolk? they are allowed in, but the people who stole their lands aren't kicked out, kind of exactly what I said, no? The story also questions the morality of war for war's sake, we see how terrible war is for people, how people suffer and die in war, yet some wars are remembered better than others, Robert's Rebellion, for exampled, is looked upon more kindly than, let's say, the Dance of the Dragons, that is because Robert's cause was a just one, ending the rule of a tyrant, and the Dance was just about twats wanting to rule because they felt entitled to it, the WOT5K is similar to the Dance, and thus is looked down upon very poorly. Dany has no claim to Mereen, yet she battled, took it, and now is the best ruler Mereen ever had, her war is more than justified. But wanting to bring destruction to Westeros just based on her blood, isn't good or just, and the story poses this, I think Dany will come to that realization tho, she clearly cares for the people, and bringing more war to Westeros won't do any good.
  18. oh, I agree with you fully, by their standards, Dany, Ned, hell, even Robert are pretty great guys, but given the question (if the Starks should give their land back to the COTF) I decided to answer based on my opinion rather than the story, as that question, I think, goes above the story. I do hope for Dany to realize conquering Westeros wont be a good thing to do, since she conquered Slaver's Bay without having any sense of a claim to it, and she's by far the best ruler the region ever had, and I think these themes are part of the story, so not just my personal opinion.
  19. I didn't say that. I said that taking someone's land is not, in my eyes, a good enough justification for war. Ending slavery, or a madman's rule or any sort of unjust system is, at least in my opinion, a good reason to go to war. Dany murdering the slavers was a good thing to do, one of the better acts of the series (again, in my opinion). But Dany waging war on Westeros just because she feels entitled to rule because on her bloodline? That's plainly evil (imo). And to answer your question: The Starks (and any ruling lord) should renounce their lands, after all, they have no more right to it than any other man and ruling based on blood is an inherently unjust system (which if Dany where to end by war, I would support) and its imposible to separate from eugenic notions and supremacist ideals. That being said, I don't think the humans should leave Westeros to the COTF and find somewhere else, based on the same logic too, the land should have no owners, and the humans have been living in Westeros for thousands of years, no one has the right to kick them out. No one had the right to kick the COTF either, mind you, and they should be allowed to live in Westeros or wherever they please actually, but that doesn't mean they have to kick whoever already lives there. Think about the native rights movements in any former colony, none of them ask to get rid of the descendants of the colonizers, they want to share the land (and reparations too, usually, but that's another subject) you can't forbid natives from living in their native land, but the descendants of colonizers are natives too and have nowhere else to go. Or else, where would you send the Northerners?
  20. *sigh* that was never the point of those posts, also, it was a pretty extensive post with a long list of points, you may not agree with it, but I don't think you can call it baseless
  21. who, that would be cool AF too, the only problem is that the IB heard it and nothing happened to them (yet), I suppose they could make horns with different functions tho
  22. but that's not what I said tho, and I'm the one who brought it up.
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