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Mourning Star

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  1. I like Forley Prester to be the PoV, the knight given charge of escorting Jeyne and Edmure West.
  2. I agree it’s an important chapter, but I don’t agree with all of the interpretation above. I think the red door is both literal, and represents her past. For instance, the op notes Dany is hurtling down the hallway towards the red door, “home”, Westeros. I think this is a direct reference to Dany’s first chapter: In the wake the dragon dream chapter: “Banners of Lords” are, of course, also called “Arms”. So what are the “Arms to keep her warm”? Dragons don’t howl. Not ever in the series, not once. But you know what does howl, a Direwolf. And what do we know about the Direwolf? It is the sigil (arms) of House Stark: The lone wolf dies, alone and howling in the darkness, the pack survives with arms to keep them warm. I agree with this as well, although again with a different interpretation. For one, Dany is running away from the cold darkness, Bran is falling towards it. I think there is also a literary (almost literal interpretation of the language) way to read Bran’s dream, like I tried to show with Dany above. I think Bran has seen the blue-white spires in the waking world already: And beneath the hollow hill, impaled on the roots of the frozen trees are the bones of a thousand dreamers: I think both Dany and Bran are on for a big surprise when they realize the meaning of their prophetic dreams!
  3. I agree with the yes and no. A trial can be meaningful and part of a tradition without everyone "passing", and without being lethal. For instance, the "drowned men" were very briefly drowned and resuscitated, fulfilling the "trial". But we also read of Patchface, who much more literally drowned but lived again. I'd also point to the Maester tradition of spending a night trying to light a glass candle. Survival and entry into the order aren't at stake, but one still has to imagine it comes from a tradition of testing who could use the candle. Just my thoughts!
  4. Since it seems that all we can do is speculate, I will do so wildly. This section of the world book may provide inspiration for outrageous predictions. Seven times the Andals charged, and were defeated. The last of these was led by Torgold Tollett (Dolorous Ted!). Then it was on the eight charge that the real Artys Arryn revealed himself and his knights attacked from the rear, having used a secret trail and a body double. The old families mentioned here are g00d candidates for having modern members being named winged knights. As is, in my opinion, some trickery involving the "false" death of Sweetrobin.
  5. Now this is the Law of the Jungle — as old and as true as the sky; And the Wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the Wolf that shall break it must die. As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk the Law runneth forward and back — For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.
  6. The Mother marked Lord Rivers on the day that he was born, and Bittersteel marked him once again upon the Redgrass Field. I would point out that for a literary parallel, Bloodraven has his wine colored raven birth mark, and lost his eye to the sword Blackfyre. The rebellion ended at the Redgrass Field, nigh on a year later. Some have written of the boldness of the men who fought with Daemon, and others of their treason. But for all their valor in the field and their enmity against Daeron, theirs was a lost cause. Daemon and his eldest sons, Aegon and Aemon, were brought down beneath the withering fall of arrows sent by Brynden Rivers and his private guards, the Raven's Teeth. This was followed by Bittersteel's mad charge, with Blackfyre in his hand, as he attempted to rally Daemon's forces. Meeting with Bloodraven in the midst of the charge, a mighty duel ensued, which left Bloodraven blinded in one eye and sent Bittersteel fleeing. Jon meanwhile was also marked once by a bird: Faint scars still marked Jon's cheek, where an eagle had once tried to rip his eye out. And once by fire: He had burned himself more badly than he knew throwing the flaming drapes, and his right hand was swathed in silk halfway to the elbow. At the time he'd felt nothing; the agony had come after. His cracked red skin oozed fluid, and fearsome blood blisters rose between his fingers, big as roaches. "The maester says I'll have scars, but otherwise the hand should be as good as it was before." "A scarred hand is nothing. On the Wall, you'll be wearing gloves often as not." I would also point out that when we are speculating about the burned men and the priests of R'hloo, it may be that the burning is a test, and while being scarred might show bravery, it may not be passing the test. He was no dragon, Dany thought, curiously calm. Fire cannot kill a dragon.
  7. I’m still a believer that Jaquen was Syrio, and that he was in the black cells because Ned was supposed to be sent to the Wall with Yoren, not beheaded.
  8. The series begins with the prologue, in a dark wood where the easy way was lost. This is how Dante's Divine Comedy begins, which is also what inspired Frost's poem, Fire and Ice, from which the A Song of Ice and Fire series get's its name. I would be shocked if the series didn't end with some play on, "By the Love that moves the sun and the other stars."
  9. I would suggest that the faith of the seven is a religion that has evolved from the memory of a time worshipping the Old Gods. The Old Gods are the Weirwoods. The faith of the seven comes from Andalos, in Essos, where we see evidence that at least once upon a time (I would suggest before the long night and the breaking of the arm of Dorne). The Ifequevron may have been the children of the forest. The God-Kings of Ib, before their fall, did succeed in conquering and colonizing a huge swathe of northern Essos immediately south of Ib itself, a densely wooded region that had formerly been the home of a small, shy forest folk. Some say that the Ibbenese extinguished this gentle race, whilst others believe they went into hiding in the deeper woods or fled to other lands. The Dothraki still call the great forest along the northern coast the Kingdom of the Ifequevron, the name by which they knew the vanished forest-dwellers. The fabled Sea Snake, Corlys Velaryon, Lord of the Tides, was the first Westerosi to visit these woods. After his return from the Thousand Islands, he wrote of carved trees, haunted grottoes, and strange silences. A later traveler, the merchant-adventurer Bryan of Oldtown, captain of the cog Spearshaker, provided an account of his own journey across the Shivering Sea. He reported that the Dothraki name for the lost people meant "those who walk in the woods." None of the Ibbenese that Bryan of Oldtown met could say they had ever seen a woods walker, but claimed that the little people blessed a household that left offerings of leaf and stone and water overnight. Above are mentioned the sacrificing by the Andals off the Swan Maidens, which sound to me like green seers. I would go so far as to say the trees of the undying are corrupted Weirwoods. I'm not the first to suggest that Naga's ribs are a grove of petrified Weirwoods. We see the skinshifters take on aspects of their animals, and I don't think its a stretch to see a connection between this magic and all legends of half human creatures on Planetos. Targaryens say they have the blood of the dragon, and the story of the nights king has him giving his seed to his corpse queen. In fact wouldn't be surprised to find all the religions and all the magic rooted in the Weirwoods. But back to Westeros. The souls of men go down into the earth and into the trees. This makes the Old Gods not just a form of nature worship, but ancestor worship. And this is where we can really see a reflection in the faith of the seven. She found the High Septon waiting for her in a small seven-sided audience chamber. The room was sparse and plain, with bare stone walls, a rough-hewn table, three chairs, and a prayer bench. The faces of the Seven had been carved into the walls. Cersei thought the carvings crude and ugly, but there was a certain power to them, especially about the eyes, orbs of onyx, malachite, and yellow moonstone that somehow made the faces come alive. Crude carved faces, reminiscent of the faces carved into the Weirwoods. And finally, even the song of the seven tells us... think of the children! The Father's face is stern and strong, he sits and judges right from wrong. He weighs our lives, the short and long, and loves the little children. The Mother gives the gift of life, and watches over every wife. Her gentle smile ends all strife, and she loves her little children. The Warrior stands before the foe, protecting us where e'er we go. With sword and shield and spear and bow, he guards the little children. The Crone is very wise and old, and sees our fates as they unfold. She lifts her lamp of shining gold to lead the little children. The Smith, he labors day and night, to put the world of men to right. With hammer, plow, and fire bright, he builds for little children. The Maiden dances through the sky, she lives in every lover's sigh. Her smiles teach the birds to fly, and gives dreams to little children. The Seven Gods who made us all, are listening if we should call. So close your eyes, you shall not fall, they see you, little children. Just close your eyes, you shall not fall, they see you, little children.
  10. Depends what you mean by added later. It would have to be confirmed later since mystery is the point, but I think it was the plan from the very start, and the clues are there. I don't claim to be the first to suggest this, at first I scoffed, but the more you think about it the more it makes sense. Old Nan is the three eyed crow. Hair and eye color? Her voice and her needles fell silent, and she glanced up at Bran with pale, filmy eyes and asked, "So, child. This is the sort of story you like?" She was a very ugly old woman, Bran thought spitefully; shrunken and wrinkled, almost blind, too weak to climb stairs, with only a few wisps of white hair left to cover a mottled pink scalp. This nice bit: "Dragons," she said, lifting her head and sniffing. She was near blind and could not see the comet, yet she claimed she could smell it. "It be dragons, boy," she insisted. Bran got no princes from Nan, no more than he ever had. Nan doesn't call Bran a prince. And she smells dragons in the red comet. Which is even better next to this: "I see them in my dreams, Sam. I see a red star bleeding in the sky. I still remember red. I see their shadows on the snow, hear the crack of leathern wings, feel their hot breath. My brothers dreamed of dragons too, and the dreams killed them, every one. Sam, we tremble on the cusp of half-remembered prophecies, of wonders and terrors that no man now living could hope to comprehend . . . or . . ." Aemon sees dragons (and the red comet), he hears them, he feels them, so it's fitting that a Targaryen could smell them too. Aemon mentions his brothers, and how they all dreamed of dragons, but what about his sisters? Tears ran from his blind white eyes at that admission. "Death should hold no fear for a man as old as me, but it does. Isn't that silly? It is always dark where I am, so why should I fear the darkness? Yet I cannot help but wonder what will follow, when the last warmth leaves my body. Will I feast forever in the Father's golden hall as the septons say? Will I talk with Egg again, find Dareon whole and happy, hear my sisters singing to their children? Fear is for the long night! I would bet that Old Nan is non other than Egg and Aemon's sister, making her a Targaryen by birth. Her voice and her needles fell silent, and she glanced up at Bran with pale, filmy eyes and asked, "So, child. This is the sort of story you like?" "Well," Bran said reluctantly, "yes, only …" Old Nan nodded. "In that darkness, the Others came for the first time," she said as her needles went click click click. Nan clicks her needles as she speaks, and we see "needle" used as a euphemism for a sword, by Arya in particular. It was looking at him with its deep red eyes, calling to him with its twisted wooden mouth, and from its pale branches the three-eyed crow came flapping, pecking at his face and crying his name in a voice as sharp as swords. Click click click! And of course, a needle has an eye. It's actually pretty straight forward, unlike trying to explain away Bloodraven not understanding a simple question. "Are you really a crow?" Bran asked. Are you really falling? the crow asked back. "It's just a dream," Bran said. Is it? asked the crow. "I'll wake up when I hit the ground," Bran told the bird. You'll die when you hit the ground, the crow said. It went back to eating corn. Bran looked down. He could see mountains now, their peaks white with snow, and the silver thread of rivers in dark woods. He closed his eyes and began to cry. That won't do any good, the crow said. I told you, the answer is flying, not crying. How hard can it be. I'm doing it. The crow took to the air and flapped around Bran's hand. "You have wings," Bran pointed out. Maybe you do too. Bran felt along his shoulders, groping for feathers. There are different kinds of wings, the crow said. The crow in the dream is not confused about what kind of crow Bran means. Bran asks about wings and the crow responds in a way which shows comprehension about what Bran means. "Are you the three-eyed crow?" Bran heard himself say. A three-eyed crow should have three eyes. He has only one, and that one red. Bran could feel the eye staring at him, shining like a pool of blood in the torchlight. Where his other eye should have been, a thin white root grew from an empty socket, down his cheek, and into his neck. "A … crow?" The pale lord's voice was dry. His lips moved slowly, as if they had forgotten how to form words. I think it's also telling how similar this is to Bran asking Sam the same question, and counting his eyes. Bran was suddenly uncertain. "Are you the three-eyed crow?" He can't be the three-eyed crow. "I don't think so." The fat man rolled his eyes, but there were only two of them. But, Bloodraven is a great fit for the Weirwood in Bran's dreams. I dream of a tree sometimes. A weirwood, like the one in the godswood. It calls to me. "There's different kinds," he said slowly. "There's the wolf dreams, those aren't so bad as the others. I run and hunt and kill squirrels. And there's dreams where the crow comes and tells me to fly. Sometimes the tree is in those dreams too, calling my name. That frightens me. But the worst dreams are when I fall." The eyes are wrong for a three eyed crow, but a two eyed tree is right for a one eyed man with a "third eye". "Most of him has gone into the tree," explained the singer Meera called Leaf. "He has lived beyond his mortal span, and yet he lingers. For us, for you, for the realms of men. Only a little strength remains in his flesh. He has a thousand eyes and one, but there is much to watch. One day you will know." ... At the heart of the godswood, the great white weirwood brooded over its reflection in the black pool, its leaves rustling in a chill wind. When it felt Bran watching, it lifted its eyes from the still waters and stared back at him knowingly. Finally, I think Ned's words from chapter one, are worth recalling: "Old Nan has been telling you stories again. In truth, the man was an oathbreaker, a deserter from the Night's Watch. No man is more dangerous.
  11. Fix his legs, as in fix them in place? like roots of a tree? irony? I don’t understand the question. The 3EC in Bran’s dream talks about having wings (this alone proves it knows how it appears, and if one appearing in another’s dreams couldn’t remember anything, what would be the point?) The tree and the crow are sometimes in dreams together and sometimes separate, this means they are distinct entities. Again, this does not fit with what we know. Why? People are oblivious of and believe silly things all the time… and repeat nonsense, like the idea that Bloodraven doesn’t know he’s the 3EC, when the text of the original falling dream makes clear this isn’t the case. People ignore the text where Bran says he’s pretending Bloodraven is the three eyed crow. I posted here because I hate that people still push the terrible theory that Bloodraven is the three eyed crow. Except I’m literally quoting the story and pointing out hard evidence that Bloodraven isn’t the three eyed crow. He literally says he’s pretending. Does he know deep down, or suspect, or refuse to believe, or is confused… doesn’t really matter, call it what you want, just don’t call a raven a crow. I agree that the 3EC will be of Targaryen blood, just not that this means it’s Bloodraven. But Bloodraven/Bittersteel weren’t thought of until way after the first book. The real hint in this quote, imo, is that the 3EC was a character in the story from the start. I don’t really like the idea of time traveling Bran taking to himself either.
  12. I think it’s ambiguous who the three eyed crow is still (although I have my opinions), but it’s pretty clearly not Bloodraven, and that’s why I’m always surprised and hate the theories about him being the three eyed crow. Fun fact, GRRM invented the phrase, the crow calls the raven black, and uses it in some form in every book (as well as dunk and egg). Raven’s and crows also don’t get along. When the ravens came the crows would scatter, only to return the moment the larger birds were gone. And I love this conversation between Aemon and Jon so much but this is the part to highlight here: "The crow is the raven's poor cousin. They are both beggars in black, hated and misunderstood." Jon wished he understood what they were talking about, and why. What did he care about ravens and doves? If the old man had something to say to him, why couldn't he just say it?
  13. There are many hints/reasons to believe this, yes. I disagree. Not only are they not equivalent, but right here Bran’s expectation is: “He had thought the three-eyed crow would be a sorcerer, a wise old wizard who could fix his legs, but that was some stupid child's dream, he realized now.” And, Bloodraven is a wise old wizard! And the three eyed crow was from a child’s dream… this line screams irony! It doesn’t explain Bran asking Bloodraven point blank and BR not even understanding the question. This hand waving away all the little details and ignoring the complete story is exactly what I mean when I say I’m shocked that it isn’t accepted by the fandom that BR is not the 3EC. Fair enough. Hard disagree, in fact Bloodraven never claims to have spoken to Bran in his dreams, and the crow is not the only being who appears in Bran’s dreams. Now I am as you see me, and now you will understand why I could not come to you … except in dreams. I have watched you for a long time, watched you with a thousand eyes and one. I saw your birth, and that of your lord father before you. I saw your first step, heard your first word, was part of your first dream. I was watching when you fell. And now you are come to me at last, Brandon Stark, though the hour is late." BR watches, he saw, was part of, was watching… never claims that he spoke to Bran. BR was probably the brooding Weirwood, who appeared in Bran’s falling dream and again later in his dreams, and was clearly distinct from the crow. Melisandre’s vision of Bran and BR also aligns with this image of him. From the first falling dream: At the heart of the godswood, the great white weirwood brooded over its reflection in the black pool, its leaves rustling in a chill wind. When it felt Bran watching, it lifted its eyes from the still waters and stared back at him knowingly. And, from Bran later: And there's dreams where the crow comes and tells me to fly. Sometimes the tree is in those dreams too, calling my name. That frightens me. But the worst dreams are when I fall." And from Melisandre: A wooden face, corpse white. Was this the enemy? A thousand red eyes floated in the rising flames. He sees me. Beside him, a boy with a wolf's face threw back his head and howled.
  14. I tend to think this is exactly the sort of story where the hero can become the villain, or where one man's hero can be another man's villain. The Last Hero killing Nissa Nissa to forge Lightbringer and then becoming the Night's King (Nissa Nissa being his corpse bride), makes a lot of sense to me. The road to hell is paved with good intentions and all that...
  15. A three-eyed crow should have three eyes. He has only one, and that one red. I think Bran gives the reader repeated hints that BR isn't the Three Eyed Crow. But, again this isn't crazy deep or new, plenty of people have been saying this since Dance released. I'm just always surprised that the BR=3EC theory persists. Largely I think it can be attributed to the depiction of the three eyed raven in the tv show.
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