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Mourning Star

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  1. I actually think these characteristics fit with the Targaryen family. In particular the strong jaw, thickly build, and seemingly broken nose. We see these traits in the descriptions of the brothers Maekar and Baelor: Thickly built and powerful, the prince—he was surely a prince— wore a leather brigandine covered with silver studs beneath a heavy black cloak trimmed with ermine. Pox scars marked his cheeks, only partly concealed by his silvery beard His short-cropped hair was dark and peppered with grey, his strong jaw clean-shaven. His nose looked as though it had been broken more than once.
  2. It is without a doubt possible, he certainly uses plenty of greek, Latin, and welsh roots for naming, and honestly it’s mind blowing how meaningful the names he chooses are. Lots of them are plays on how they sound, like Aerys (eris - strife) or Aemon (Amon, the hidden one) and there are biblical references like Jaime (derived from Jacob, who came into the world holding his twin’s heel, just like Jaime), or straight translations like Orell (Orel - eagle in Russian). Frankly the list goes on and on. However, especially when trying to interpret the names in parts, obviously it’s possible I’m making too much of a stretch. However, I think there are other examples to support this kind of theory. Take Moqorro for example (mock - oro, or false gold) or Luwin (lupine - wolf, and wyn - friend; wolf friend) or Jaqen H’ghar (Jaken - wise, Hagar - stranger). Some of the meanings we see in the name choices were certainly intended and others are likely us just finding unintended connections, but it’s fun to consider. Sorry if there was confusion, I thought it was clear I meant Targaryens, which means it was at least 16 years before the events of Game. I do not understand what the archmaesters had to do with it, that is what I’m saying. There is certainly no indication they ordered Aemon to the Wall, or even have ever ordered someone to the Wall. Aemon was offered the crown and turned it down because of his blood. Going south for a task with the intent of returning is not the same as a permanent post in the south, and as we see in the series ancient archmaesters don’t retire. It is just very hard to see how the Citadel was involved with what appears to be Aemon’s choice to go to the wall, and his choosing to stay there, a choosing who’s difficulty is highlighted by him on the page in his conversations with Jon. I don’t think you can ignore the preceding sentence. His blood was why. He could not be trusted. No more than I can. It’s possible, I guess, that Marwyn didn’t mean his blood was why… but that is really not how it reads and if so it’s a very peculiar way to say that, especially for someone who’s name sounds Valyrian and who’s family/parentage are not clear to us.
  3. This doesn't seem inconsistent at all, Tywin had side-whiskers, so hair.
  4. There doesn't HAVE to be... but since we are here, and this post got me thinking about Marwyn... First, GRRM takes great care with his names, so what's in this one? Mar-Wyn Mar- means "the sea" in Latin -Wyn is a suffix meaning "friend" in welsh, or possibly "wine", or from gwyn which means "white" or "blessed". So Marwyn then could mean something like, friend of the sea. And the first time he is mentioned: "Marwyn, he named himself," the woman replied in the Common Tongue. "From the sea. Beyond the sea. The Seven Lands, he said. Sunset Lands. Where men are iron and dragons rule. He taught me this speech." "A maester in Asshai," Ser Jorah mused. "Tell me, Godswife, what did this Marwyn wear about his neck?" "A chain so tight it was like to choke him, Iron Lord, with links of many metals." The other detail we can glean here is that Marwyn met Miri Maz Dur before Robert's Rebellion, since dragons still ruled the Sunset Kingdoms, and this makes sense since Marwyn's chain was so tight, he must have been relatively young. "Do you believe in ghosts, Maester?" he asked Qyburn. The man's face grew strange. "Once, at the Citadel, I came into an empty room and saw an empty chair. Yet I knew a woman had been there, only a moment before. The cushion was dented where she'd sat, the cloth was still warm, and her scent lingered in the air. If we leave our smells behind us when we leave a room, surely something of our souls must remain when we leave this life?" Qyburn spread his hands. "The archmaesters did not like my thinking, though. Well, Marwyn did, but he was the only one." Then we get Qyburn mentioning Marwyn above, and these are the only two mentions of Marwyn until Feast for Crows, when he appears on page. While the line, "the menagerie hates the mastiff", is absolutely fantastic. I keep getting stuck on this one passage: "If I tell you, they may need to kill you too." Marywn smiled a ghastly smile, the juice of the sourleaf running red between his teeth. "Who do you think killed all the dragons the last time around? Gallant dragonslayers armed with swords?" He spat. "The world the Citadel is building has no place in it for sorcery or prophecy or glass candles, much less for dragons. Ask yourself why Aemon Targaryen was allowed to waste his life upon the Wall, when by rights he should have been raised to archmaester. His blood was why. He could not be trusted. No more than I can." Because while this is a great potential insight into the designs of the archmaesters, except we heard a different explanation from Mormont as to why Aemon came to the Wall. Jon was not entirely innocent of the history of the realm; his own maester had seen to that. "That was the year of the Great Council," he said. "The lords passed over Prince Aerion's infant son and Prince Daeron's daughter and gave the crown to Aegon." "Yes and no. First they offered it, quietly, to Aemon. And quietly he refused. The gods meant for him to serve, not to rule, he told them. He had sworn a vow and would not break it, though the High Septon himself offered to absolve him. Well, no sane man wanted any blood of Aerion's on the throne, and Daeron's girl was a lackwit besides being female, so they had no choice but to turn to Aemon's younger brother—Aegon, the Fifth of His Name. Aegon the Unlikely, they called him, born the fourth son of a fourth son. Aemon knew, and rightly, that if he remained at court those who disliked his brother's rule would seek to use him, so he came to the Wall. And here he has remained, while his brother and his brother's son and his son each reigned and died in turn, until Jaime Lannister put an end to the line of the Dragonkings." Aemon's blood was literally why he choose to go to the Wall, so it doesn't seem to make much sense blaming the archmaesters. So what is with what Marwyn said to Sam? Can the citadel make an Archmaester of a brother of the Night's Watch? Does this mean they can leave the wall? Is Marwyn just making wild accusations? Who is Marwyn that his blood makes him untrustworthy? So many questions...
  5. This is an extremely childish opinion. It is tantamount to saying that just because a modern judicial system exhibits extreme miscarriages of justice this means people are entitled to take matters into their own hands. Some absolute baby anarchist nonsense. Other people being bad doesn't make it ok for you to be bad... kindergarten 101. And then on top of it you dive right back in? You are a proponent of taking innocent travelers as hostages for wars that haven't begun? You think Cat was "forced" to free Jaime? Obviously this is not worth a real discussion. I guess we just have wildly different worldviews. Have a nice weekend.
  6. And Jon is Ned's son? Jof is Robert's? The appendix is very clearly not a reliable source of information, especially when it comes to the plot. What it does do is reflect the "common perception", and in this case the characters are clearly under the impression that Bloodraven is the three eyed crow, I'm suggesting that there is ample evidence that they are wrong. Just like with Jon and Jof. Of course it's not crazy, even once you accept that Bloodraven is not the three eyed crow it is still very clearly intentional misdirection. But then, that's kind of a big part of story telling. I would say that this is one of a handful of fantastic twists which will surprise most readers. And the best twists are the ones you only see the evidence of after the reveal but which were there to be found all along. At the same time, in an unfinished story like this, one can't possibly expect proof before the reveal either. Doubt is an admirable quality, just ask Davos! Although at some point it, when faced with evidence, it becomes a flaw (if that's the case here is obviously debatable!). We all get to make up our minds for ourselves, and either way or undecided, hopefully we will all eventually get another book so we can find out I'm right!
  7. The same reason Aemon wanted to go to Dany: Worth noting that it sure sounds like Marwyn has Targaryen blood too...
  8. I have! More than once in fact! And I actually think there are several ways to reach this conclusion. I could go through all the parallels between Bran's journey north and Dany in the House of the Undying, or look at what we know about Bloodraven's past, his crimes against gods and men, behavior in Dunk and Egg, and possible motivations, or explore how a raven is not a crow. But, I think the my favorite quotes to show this relate to Bran's falling dream. In the prologue we see The Others for the first time, and Waymar Royce, say what you will about him, stands his ground against them, in that moment being a man of the watch. He shows bravery in the face of fear, uttering the fantastic, "dance with me then." Then in the first chapter, a Bran chapter, we get the lesson explicitly spelled out for us, a man can only be brave when he is afraid, from noble Ned. A beautiful example of how to show then tell in a work of literature. Later when Bran falls, he sees something very interesting, which I think often goes overlooked, bookended by the lesson on bravery and the Stark words, winter is coming: It is many books later that we finally reach what Bran is seeing above, although he hasn't yet realized it. We have the bravery lead in, even summer was afraid (winter is coming). The are surrounded by snow and cold and "they are here" refers to the dead wights... so snow, and cold and death. And lo! The weirwood grove on top of Bloodraven's hollow hill are frozen, root to "crown". You will notice lots of "king" imagery surrounds Bloodraven, but I digress... Those are the icy spires from Bran's falling dream above. The fact that GRRM used, "waiting to embrace him" to refer to them is really fantastic. The word "embrace" is only used one other time in Bran's chapters so far, when they first see Bloodraven: The throne that embraces him is made from the roots of the weirwoods above, the frozen spires of ice. Also, in the falling dream, "He saw the bones of a thousand other dreamers impaled upon their points." And lo! These are the bones of a thousand dreamers impaled on the points of the roots of the icy spire weirwoods above. So I think it's pretty clear the parallels between what Bran see's in his dream and Bloodraven's hollow hill are more than coincidence, this is the place Bran saw. So what about that original lesson from Ned? Hold up! That is the opposite of the oft repeated lesson! Not only should it be concerning that Bloodraven is trying to teach Bran something completely contrary to the original lesson in the series, it is also reflected in what Bran was told from Nan. Fear is for the Darkness. And who else didn't fear? And was made strong by the darkness? Obviously I could go on and on using other quotes and connections, like did you know Bloodraven was lord commander of the night's watch for thirteen years before he abandoned his post? But, I think this is enough for me to abandon this post confident in my original statement.
  9. You got me, the issue here is that I didn't know what a trial by combat was, and didn't realize that it was a valid way to get to the truth. Thanks for explaining it so nicely! Have a great day!
  10. All the above, but also, maybe number one for me is that when Ned arrived in King’s Landing after the Battle of the Trident, with Robert injured and Aerys dead, he didn’t claim the throne himself. "You should have taken the realm for yourself. It was there for the taking. Jaime told me how you found him on the Iron Throne the day King's Landing fell, and made him yield it up. That was your moment. All you needed to do was climb those steps, and sit. Such a sad mistake." "I have made more mistakes than you can possibly imagine," Ned said, "but that was not one of them."
  11. I don’t know how you got that from what I wrote but I think you are wildly misinterpreting me. The “abstract” notion of justice is laid out by the text itself. It’s not just a core theme of the series, it’s literally the topic of the very first chapter.
  12. I don’t agree with this at all. The plan is pretty simple and makes total sense to me. But, it’s not worth arguing about hypotheticals, or we end up in endless unsatisfying rabbit holes. Suffice it to say, abducting Tyrion was a wrong, both in practice and morally. This is like saying the assassination of the Arch Duke Ferdinand didn’t spark WWI... Nobody is saying there weren’t other things going on or deep seeded reasons for conflict. The abduction of Tyrion is what sparked the war, and it was clearly wrong of Cat to do.
  13. cat made a mistake Are you suggesting you think Tyrion’s “trial” was justice? Wtf? Lol at no point have I used or suggested using modern standards, this is a straw man used by those who can’t express their own coherent thoughts. I used the standards of the series itself, to the point of literally quoting it. So when analyzing literature a common tool is to look for meaningful comparisons and contrasts. Rob going to war over an imprisoned Ned is worth comparing to Tywin going to war over an imprisoned Tyrion. But if that’s to much to think about at once we can just stick to the obvious things Cat got wrong. Not just that… Wrong. Jaime attacks Ned, and this precipitates the assassination of Robert on his hunt. Also, sending Beric and company into the Riverlands, which if Jaime hadn’t hurt Ned would have been a trap for Ned. The abduction of Tyrion is the first open act of violence which sparks the war, there isn’t really any debate to be had about that. You are talking about motives not acts of war. Did you even read this series? Did you read what you wrote? People are not to blame for the actions of their family members. Cycles of violence are bad. One wrong does not excuse another. Jaime can be wrong for throwing Bran out a window and Cat can be wrong for abducting Tyrion at the same time. Both are acts of violence against innocents. Never used modern standards, this is silly…
  14. why do you think that? Cat isnt some oppressed peasant, she is on top of the social pyramid and seems to be a proponent of duty and honor. I’m using her standards, and the standards in the story, certainly not modern ones. no she didn’t. That’s kind of the point. She chooses to rush the judgement, and that’s on her. Obviously she shouldn’t have been there at all, but those mistakes had already been made. I’m holding her to the standards of the series. It’s hysterical to me that anyone could read this story and come away thinking she was never wrong.
  15. Ya you aren’t wrong about the battle bravery… first through the gap at Pyke and all that. coward does seem unfair. I guess lost might be better, or aimless. Lacking personal conviction and courage much in the same way as Robert. Looking for an easy out, drinking too much, etc. maybe emotional coward, as opposed to a physical one… Idk
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