Sotan

On 7/12/2023 at 2:14 PM, Hippocras said:

I personally tend to think that a daughter of Baela's married into House Blackwood.

I've been speculating on this same thing for a while now. 

10 minutes ago, RumHam said:

We used to debate this quite a bit but it's been so long I can't remember all the details. You may well be right. I wonder does the king control family marriages other than his children? 

This is from the worldbook:

It seems like odd phrasing if anyone can have more than one wife. Or even if it's standard that Targaryens can. Why say "he was convinced he could" if it should be clear that polygamy isn't an issue? 

I always thought members of the royal family required the monarch's permission to marry, which is why Daemon and Laena ran off to Essos because they married without Viserys' leave. I think the same rule would apply to Daemon Blackfyre.

It's unfortunate there isn't an example in the books like Show Daemon/Rhaenyra. I'm really curious to see what the reaction is if Laenor comes back.

6 minutes ago, RumHam said:

That and all the Targaryen princes who ask about taking multiple wives and are denied leads me to suspect that when unifying and codifying the laws Jaehaerys sided with the kingdoms that considered it illegal. 

That's an interesting interpretation, I always took it as the King allowing polygamy in his family would cause unnecessary political headaches, and since members of the royal family couldn't marry without the King's permission, that door was closed. 

Can anyone confirm if The Doctrine of Exceptionalism covered polygamy? I always thought it prohibited incest for everyone except the Targaryens, but it never touched on polygamy. I ask this because to me it looks like Daemon and Rhaenyra's marriage is legal since they married in a Valyrian ceremony and the Faith of the Seven has no standing to invalidate it. Unless the DoE specifically prohibits polygamy. 

4 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Sotan, where have you been all this time?!

Olivia said that that was how the showrunners described Alicent to her. Which is silly on its own, since Trump’s biggest female supporters were never debutantes.

It's been a weird time, everything's ok tho. Been catching up on the show and the discussions here. 

You're right about the showrunners and Olivia. 

59 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

When an American showrunner describes a character as “women for Trump,”

I thought it was Olivia Cook who described Alicent as a "woman for Trump"?

4 hours ago, EggBlue said:

I hope they make Aemond competent and sympathetic to balance the Dance a bit .

Competent sure, sympathetic? That's a lot of work. He's a mass murdering sociopath. 

On 10/3/2022 at 2:03 AM, BlackLightning said:

And the way that Alicent publicly insulted Laenor for his sexuality behind his back. Classy. Corlys was upset by it, but I'm surprised that that didn't cause more of an issue

I'm not sure if someone said this, but it read like Alicent was desperately trying to change the subject of who told Aemond that Rhaenyra's sons were bastards. If Corlys/Rhaenys tried to say something to Alicent about her jibe at Laenor it would've derailed Viserys' interrogation of Aemond. 

14 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Maurice Druon shows that pretty well, with Mahaut actually being a peer of France and she and Philippe ignoring all that just so they can put him on the throne...

And George pretty much mimics all this 'come up with a pretext when it's convenient' with all the precendents for the Targaryen succession. Maegor says the strongest shall rule, Rogar that a man must rule until he doesn't like him anymore and wants the daughter of the elder line, Jaehaerys is so obsessed with his sons that he wants Vaegon as his heir, the lords like their men and the adult party prince ... and Viserys is gets pissed by Daemon, dotes on his only child, and finds Otto's arguments convincing.

Not to mention all the ridiculous arguments the regency council brings up. 'That princess was a dragonrider.' 'But the other one has a living dragon.' 'Rhaena is more tractable.' 'Baela is stronger.' 'We need a male heir from the male line despite the fact that neither exists anymore.'

And so on.

It could have come up, at least, and there could have been an attack which left the curtain wall and/or the big tower intact. Rhaenyra had a lot of dragons, but Balerion and Meraxes were long dead, and she didn't control Vhagar. There could have been an attack involving some of the younger dragons whose fires were no hot enough to melt stone.

The wooden structures of Storm's End could have burned with the wall and the big tower suffering little to no lasting damage. Think how Winterfell burns in ACoK without actually looking like a ruin when Bran looks back. Something like that would have also been possible for Storm's End.

And of course George could have included such a destruction into TWoIaF. He wrote the Dance material back when that book was made. In the main books no POV was actually inside Storm's End so far, nor did we get a detailed description or history of the place.

Thank You! Certain people act like the council of 101 set an ironclad precedent that females cannot succeed to the IT. And that all monarchs after Jaehaerys I were bound by it. 

8 hours ago, The Young Maester said:

I agree, If I remember correctly the Valois were descendants of the capets through the female line which makes their claim much weaker than the Plantagenets. But since the french nobility didnt want an English king they ensured the Valois took it.

I think it's the reverse. The Valois were the descendants of Philip IV's brother and the Plantagenets Philip IV's daughter Isabella. I could be wrong tho.  

12 hours ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

I'm thinking, if GoT was a moderate success, (S1/S2/Westworld-level) maybe we would have had Winds by now. I know it's not a given, but still.

Eh, what could have been... 

I know. I'm resigned to the possibility we won't get another book. 

8 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

'm still trying to wrap my mind around that. Personally, I can't even imagine sitting on one of the greatest fantasy sagas of all time and putting it aside to work on spinoffs and write lore for video games. But then again, I'm not a not a massively successful author.  

Seems like he's facing some kind of fundamental writing problem, or he's bored with the main story. Either way it's a gut punch. In his blog, he seems almost giddy about HOTD and these other shows. Ryan Condal on a podcast said GRRM "helped him break in the pilot" and then they pitched it to HBO together. GRRM even admits he's heavily involved with the show. It seems like F&B and these shows has his interest/heart. 

2 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

FnB made Rhaenyra more sympathetic than the novellas did. There was less talk about her being spoiled and more instances of her being manipulated (like when Mysaria convinced her that Nettles betrayed her).

You're right. I just think we're culturally primed to dislike women who seek power for themselves. Dany had the whole great emancipator thing going for her, Rhaenyra doesn't even have that.  Now that I think about it, you're probably right they might soften her up in the show. 

1 minute ago, The Young Maester said:

Thats very true. Later we will see how people react to corlys. 

Especially if Rhaenys becomes a fan favorite and we're hit with his secret bastards after her death. Curious to audience reaction to that. 

3 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

To be fair, the book scene was weird as well. At least I didn't understand it at all when I read it.

They made it super clear in the show with Cersei resisting saying, "No, its not right, STOP!" and Jamie proceeding to rape her. It's disturbing that they didn't think that was rape. 

4 minutes ago, The Young Maester said:

Or he might just be seen as the opportunistic schemer that he was. But I agree they will make him a hero because of the spin off series. Plus he is black and they  don’t need that criticism atm.

I don't think his race will have anything to do with it. Corlys being an opportunistic schemer who cheats on his wife is still light years better than Daemon and Rhaenyra. In another show Corlys would come off terrible, compared to his former son and daughter in law he's a saint. 

5 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Yeah, apparently the Battle of the Blackwater director was told to add more nudity to the episode (which George wrote, as it would happen).

I feel like if they make both sides evil the show will end up going full-nihilist. I expect Corlys to be the hero of the show since he “wins” (i.e. survives the war) and since they want to make a prequel about him.

I hope they stay true to the leaders of the factions Alicent/Aegon and Daemon/Rhaenyra being terrible people. It's the supporting cast especially on team Black that is awesome and the audience will root for. I don't remember thinking Corlys was a main character when I read F&B, but he was listed as one of the five leads way back in Dec 2020 when the casting was announced. So you may be on to something about his characterization.  

3 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

I trust that Heller can make the show interesting ... although it might still be weird. I'm watching his Pennyworth right now, and I really cannot wrap my head around what this show is supposed to be. It isn't bad, but weird on so many levels.

Pennyworth is weird! I get the sense it's unintentional. Unlike Raised by Wolves which has taken the WTF Is This? Flag and run with it. 

4 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Especially the Corlys show has little actual potential for normal story-telling, being basically the story of a guy making nine journeys to the far ends of the world, meaning the core cast can reasonably only Corlys himself and his crew, with family members at home or folks based at places he visits repeatedly (Qarth, say, although I don't want to see the GoT Qarth ever again as I notice while writing this) as recurring or guest characters.

What's crazy is that Bruno Heller the creator of HBO's Rome is heading up that show. Really curious to see what he does with it. 

14 minutes ago, The Young Maester said:

Yes that show was a bit too much on the sexual content part. I had a work colleague that hadnt watch the show nor read the books and he told me a friend said that a brother rapes his sister in a church. Lol what a way to scare people off.

I heard a rumour that one of the producers was the creep that loved to add these scenes.

D&D were genuinely surprised the audience correctly identified it as a rape scene. The writing was on the wall with those two for years and we just ignored it. At least I did. 

11 minutes ago, The Dragon Demands said:

Three Body Problem is on hold due to one of the Chinese executives on it literally murdering his superior.

I know that this actually happened, but every time I read it, it will never not be a shocking.

A couple of years from now there's a possibility that 3 GOT shows will be on at the same time. It seems like HBO is flailing since HBO Max isn't doing well compared to Netflix, Disney+, Amazon Prime. Moves made in desperation usually don't turn out well. As much as I'd love to see Dunk & Egg brought to the screen, I prefer GRRM finish them first before we have a reply of GOT.