Targaryeninkingslanding

"The battle screamed about Lord Robert and Prince Rhaegar both, and by the will of the gods, or by chance-or perhaps by design-they met amidst the shallows of the ford. The two knights fought valiantly upon their destriers, according to all accounts. For despite his crimes, Prince Rhaegar was no coward" They fought on horseback not on foot. I not sure their is anything but fan art to support they fought on foot.

she can probably only give brith to one baby at a time, so would take a few years, and imguessing because they are not kings, their either not strong enough to produce shadow babies, or the act would be a one for one life sacrifice, and how likely are each member of the watch to sacrifice their lives for one night when their is moles town. also they're supposed to bear no children so...

do we have any indication that Stannis knows it was little finger who came up with that rumor? alive, only Cersei and Tyrion and Varys should know besides little finger, and how likely are any of the three to tell that to stannis? and if they do, how likely is stannis to trust them?

not to be morose, because I honestly dont know what posts your talking about in particular and am too lazy to investigate, but when discussing characters and events, many readers view the stories and characters through a lens of moral relativity. right and wrong do not particularly play into it as much as what an action gains the principle actor. we dont have to agree with what a character does or how they act morally, and that act can be both "evil" and the best move a character can make. Cersei murdering Robert is "evil", but also the best way she can ensure her children inherit the crown, and to that goal is therefore the "correct" move. it is a result of her selfish affair, but also the best way to ensure her children's future. Dany crucifying the slavers is "evil", or at least very cruel, and the correct thing to do to avenge the mutually murdered slaves. while the slaves may view this a cruel, her free slaves might view it a just and right. When a character does an act like this, they do it because they think it is the right and logical thing to do, and this is sometimes best understood and explainable through a veil that seems like justification, when is is simply recognizing a person, even an "evil" person, doing what they think is right. selfishness is relative to the person, and just as the characters of asoiaf disagree on religion and therefore morality, so too do they disagree on what is right. I understand your moral objections to this, but you have to understand that the issue you seem to be raising is a debate that has gone on for all of time. you dont have to agree with a characters immoral action, are allowed to condemn it, but you are not the character, and what you believe is right and what the character believes is right is not the same, and imposing your own moral standers on a character where like moral standers are not applicable is unfair.

their are a few examples around the forum but I found this pretty quickly and its about right: essentially he's been a guiding light for stannis, and had been confined and reforged 3 times

there are some theories along the line that Davos is light bringer. if so, then its no wonder Melisandre thought his soul "Burned hot and high." suffice to say he might be a special case.

oh! haha, yeah agreed. she might have been able to get a better deal if she took advantage of that

So, I'm not going to say rob couldn't have taken the twins, but the cost would be far greater than a marriage pact. rob had maybe 22,000 men at that point, while Frey could field 4000. the problem is the crossing would be absolute hell to try and storm, where rob could easily lose a third of his forces if not (likely) more. a prolonged siege would bleed them still, and yeah it would be long. Frey can be confident that Rob would rather meet his terms than fight him, and in tern, Rob gets Freys 4000. On the second matter, I think you're right. Frey loves his family, and probably did not know what Ramsey was, or at least did not suspect he would eventually murder his half siblings, and Ramsey was not made a Bolton until after the Red Wedding, so Fat Walda's children might have stood to inherit until then. It very well might have seemed like to Frey he was getting a soft coup marrying in and maybe having family acting as regent for the new warden of the north, as he's trying currently with Rosalyn and edmure. either way he gets his bloodline continued in great houses.

Making a guess based on zero evidence, I'd like to say they are symbolic of the three heads of the dragon for the three black (Dany, Jon, third person), and one green for the last Green Seer (Bran), champions of the fire god and ice god respectively

I feel like Sansa wouldn't mind marrying handsome prince faegon though. Them already having Tyrion will make it easier to get annulled, especially if the high septon decides he likes faegon as well. I think rulership of the riverlands is just another pride thing. Lord Tully would never let him have his daughters, for his low birth, and is now ruler of the riverlands. I do agree Sansa is his doom though. Just like the robin's toy giant she defeated, the man whose sigil is a titan of bravos is similarly doomed

Wouldn't the magic of essos be incredibly weak during this time? no dragons or anything. north of the wall you still have children of the forrest, skin changers and giants. Asshai might have had magic, but bittersteel supposedly died in the disputed lands between lys, tyrosh and myr. where did Melisandre grow up? how old is she really? does magic prolong her life, or does she use a glammer like a faceless man? Lys has witches so maybe something there.

I got really into Celtic myth. the other are heavily influenced by the Aos si, faeries and elves. Lyanna stark herself is probably named after Leanan Sidhe: Faery lovers - female aos si that take human lovers who have brief, yet highly inspired lives

I think the question is, what is little finger willing to be content with? I don't think he believed Cersei would muck everything up so much. The Death of Tywin was an unexpected variable. His living would have meant a relative time of peace. A peace where little finger could: 1. Secure the north via Sansa 2. The Vale via Sansa marrying Harry the Heir 3. His own ownership as lord paramount of the Riverlands 4. Uniting these lands by impregnating Sansa with is own child, and leaving his lands to that child. (I know its disturbing, but he is attracted to her and seems likely to be planning this) From there, he very well might conspire to make his secret child the new king, but I doubt he believes he could seize the crown himself. Varys plans do not exclude his own. Maybe little finger and Varys are then more like two schemers who only haven't butt heads because their plans are for different halves of the kingdom.

I agree with Aebram that the main issue is that time was of the essence. Rob was able to split his army thanks to the Freys which led to the success at the whispering woods. Also, Frey would know Ramsey to be an elevated Bastard, so might take slight at the proposed marriage. Roose himself would be better, being unmarried and lord, any sons would be the new lord of the dread fort anyways. Ultimately, Frey wanted the marriage to a great lord/king that would honor his house. Cat couldn't betroth her captured brother, so that leaves rob. that was enough to get him and his swords. you dont get a much better deal given the circumstances. I dont see Frey and crannogmen getting along in any case though, just vaguely working together like they had. Enmity there seems long given big and little Walder's impression of Jojen and Meera.

Well... the Great Sphinx of Giza is a lion with a man's face and no nose so...

I would like to propose a series of theories that I believe are likely to be a plot points in the forthcoming novels. The result of these theories will be the amassing of an army that will fall under the command of Jon Snow. Theory aspect one: Chaos in the Crownslands - famine, revolt, war Cersei is an incompetent ruler. She is turning King's Landing against herself. She has attacked the new queen, who the people loved enough to consider loving Joffrey. Her goal is to kill this young woman, not understanding that she is the publicly untrustworthy figure, and such an attack would easily be understood for what it was. She been shamed publicly with her walk of atonement, and so no longer has the publics love (or desire), if she indeed still had it at all. She will also soon no longer have access to the breadbasket of Rosby and Stokeworth, due to enmity with Bronn and the Ward to Rosby. Furthermore, she has no fleet (because they abandoned her), and Dragonstone is in the possession of Knight of Flowers, who could effectively enforce a blockade on Blackwater Bay. Cersei is not a benign figure, like to act cautiously. She will be like Joff, militant and cruel, possibly closing herself off in a lawless city, like Queen Rhaenyra or Alicent Hightower. She might have to flee, or close off her keep, but she will not control the city. Conclusion one: King's landing is doomed to fall in on itself. This will lead to, amongst other thing, a mass exodus of civilians into the countryside and Kingswood. Theory aspect two: Brother and Sister Dragons - "Tyrion was Tywins son" Cersei and Jamie are not Tywin's, they are the children of Aerys. Aerys lusted after Joanna, and was known to have taken certain liberties during her bedding. Eventually, Joanna had to leave King's Landing due to Rhaella not being able to stand one of her ladies of the court being in an affair with her her king. This was not an likely an expression of jealousy, but but pride again the insult of such an affair between the king in one of her ladies, or dismissal to allow her lady to escape a predatory king. This did not prevent the birth of twin siblings of notable Targaryen psychology. Their mother was a Lannister, and so certain physical traits were dominant over the Targaryen traits. Blond hair, green eyes and twins. Without precedent and despite discouragement, they coupled incestiously as Targaryen's are wont to. Jamie is a peerless warrior, arguably a Targaryen trait. Cersei is a sadist and insane, mirroring her real father, Aerys, fetishizing fire. Like Tyrion once quipped, her son was not "Robert the Second, but Aerys the third." Aerys was afraid his son Rhaegar would depose (or kill) him, but it was his son Jamie that he should have feared. Cersei is afraid of the Valonqar, Tyrion, who she believes is prophesied to kill her, but perhaps that is not the twin she need fear. In addition: Jamie and Cersei even emulate the supposed relationship between Aemon the Dragonknight and Queen Naerys, possibly down to the bastard son. Conclusion two: Cersei and Jamie are Targaryens, and we should expect them to behave as such. Theory aspect three: Wildfire plot - Let her be the queen of hot embers and ashes There is a certain theory that has existed for a while. This theory stems out of a chekhov's gun situation. Old jars of Wildfire. Nasty stuff. Recently, a whole batch of it was found under the Sept of Blessed Baelor. thankfully, it was removed. probably all of it in fact. Yet, one thing that has been teased over and over, is wildfire under King's landing. Now which crazy person who is in trouble with and deeply hates the faith militant, that's headquarters contains her primary perceived queenly rival, and who has displayed a psychological disposition deeply similar to the Mad king who tried to burn down King's Landing, might be inclined to orchestrate a similar plot? Conclusion Three: The inevitable burning of Baelor's sept Theory aspect four: Harrenhal Stronghold of the Faith - Doomed Stronghold of the Faith Militant Kings Landing is a mess. The center for the faith in the Crownlands is gone. Where can the faith militant possibly regroup? Well, one devout knight and his Holy Hundred were recently put in command of Harrenhal. I can see no better place, nor place more likely able, to take in the faith militant, but also have the capacity in winter to take in and shelter a large amount of refuges. So settles the first surviving and vying faction in the War of the Crownlands. Unfortunately, this faction is ultimately doomed. No house survives Harrenhal. Not House Harren, Strong, Longston, Gregor Clagane, the slobbering goat, the manticore, Tywin, and soon, likely not even Roose who is like to die, and lets face it, so is his son (extinguishing the house?). Conclusion four: the Faith militant will move to Harrenhal, and by the nature of ownership of the fortress, the Faith Militant is then doomed. Theory aspect five: The fate of Greywind - small folk tell tales Greywind did not perish during the Red Wedding. The sewing of Greywinds head to the body of Rob Stark is a story that the Freys have chosen to relish in, amongst other lies that they have perpetuated and allowed to appear formidable. No reliable character relates witnessing this grotesque display, and it easily exists within confines of the lies small folk make up after the death of any king. Just as Sansa did not turn into a winged wolf and escape after killing Jeffrey, the proposed mocking display is simple a story. Beside the fact that a Direwolf head would be massive and incredibly difficult to sow (not mount which seems possible) but sew the wolf head atop, their is a credible reason to believe greywind escaped, and why the Freys would still think him dead. Raynald Frey tried to help Greywind escape, but was shot and fell into the Green Fork. This indicates that both squire and wolf were near the river. By the fact of falling into the river, and being shot, the Freys thought Raynald was dead. By the same logic, if a few crossbow bolts hit but did not kill greywind, and knocked him into the river, the Freys would assume Greywind dead. The reason no one has found them, and the other direwolves can't sense his location, is because they were taken to Greywater Watch, which like the wall, has mystical qualities that hides it and cuts off that ability to communicate. Furthermore, Dany's vision of the red wedding, should be further noted to be symbolic and not literal, as all her other vision were symbolic. Conclusion five: Greywind's survival is fully plausible and defendable. Theory aspect six: Merging of Kings - the soul of the King in the North Varamyr six skins has confirmed two very important facts about skin changers. 1. If the bonded animal of skin changer survives them, the skin changer will merge with that vessel, and begin a second life. (He merges with his own wolf) 2. If a skin changer in his second life exists within an animal, its soul can bond and join with other skin changer. (Inheriting the hate of Orell and his eagle for Jon Snow) 3. Jon knows both of these things. This indicates that Jon will at some point merge with someone. He may very well begin his own second life in Ghost before warging back into his own wight controlled body, but the second aspect, the merging, still remains opportune. Well, if Greywind did survive as stated in theory aspect five, Rob has undoubtedly begun a second life within him, but Greywind is likely weak from his wounds and may not last much longer. If any characters are likely to merge with eachother, if this introduced device is to be used, the most likely candidate, would be in this way. Conclusion six: Jon will merge with Rob, further solidifying him as the legitimate king in the north. Theory aspect seven: R+L=J Conclusion seven: yeah Theory aspect eight: Revelations at Greywater Watch - keys to a brotherhood Besides possibly containing Greywind and therefore, Rob, Greywater Watch is home to the one living person in all of Westeros who is sure to know what happened at the Tower of Joy. Not to mention, that it is also a place where Rob loyalists who know his last will, naming Jon his heir, might be hiding. conclusion eight: Greywater is the key to legitimacy over a the North, the Landing, and contains a soul Theory aspect nine: Skulls and Lemon kisses - lemon cloaked squires Lem Lemoncloak is Richard Lonmoth, the knight of skulls and kisses, and former squire to Rheagar Targaryen. Trust me, a woods witch told me as much. conclusion nine: A leader of the brotherhood without banners was Rheagar's squire. Theory aspect ten: Bolstering the Brotherhood - Kingsmen In the aftermath of the diaspora of King's Landing, the Brotherhood Without Banners will emerge as a major faction that people defer too as opposed to the camp of the faith militant. They have already established loyalty between them and the small folk of the Crown and Riverlands, and will likely be bolstered in both volunteers and trade networks as people try to survive. They are faithful to the red god however, which is why only some of the small folk will join their camp, and why they will remain at odds with the faith militant. Conclusion ten: The Brotherhood Without Banners will soon grow exponentially in influence and strength. Theory aspect eleven: the Death and Resurrection of Jon Snow - Azor Ahai Jon snow was stabbed in the mutiny of Castle Black under the bleeding star (Patrek of King's Mountain), his wounds smoking, and salt from the tears betrayers. Yet I doubt he will stay dead. The moment Jon told the Wildlings about Mance, there was no stopping them. the Night's watch lost at that very moment. they are outnumbered and will be slaughter. Jon's body will be resigned to a fire, with bodies of his betrayers, and unfortunately, Shireen, who Val believes is unclean. Under the bleeding star, amidst salt (tears) and smoke (again his wounds or actual pyre), by the boring of the betrayer and a burning of kings blood, Azor Ahai will be born again, in Melisandres' eyes at the very least. Conclusion eleven: Jon Snow will have the loyalty of the wildlings, surviving watchmen, and queen's men Theory aspect twelve: Successor of Stannis - Azor Ahai cont. With the death of Stannis via some northern plot, or falling in battle, and the likely burning of Shireen, it seems likely that Melisandre and surviving queens men will belong to a revived Jon Snow. She will likely recognize him as Azor Ahai. he will have the support of the red priests. Conclusion twelve: Jon gets Red Priest support and surviving queen and queen's men Theory aspect thirteen: King of the Brotherhood Without Banners - Kings Men! All leaders of the brotherhood in will have a reason to defer to Jon Snow as their Legitimate King. Harwin: Loyalty to King in the North established through robs will Lem: Loyalty to Rhaegar's son via testimony Thoros: Deference to Melisandre's chosen one Lady Stoneheart: Loyalty to the soul of her son (bringing closure with her and Jon) Added benefit of getting Gendry (who needs a king to remove bastardy) who may serve as a figurehead to get the stormlords on his side, and who's veracity of birth can be confirmed by Brienne of Tarth. Conclusion thirteen: Jon Snow has an Army Theory aspect fourteen: Wolves in droves - he also has wolves Arya and her wolf defer to Jon and Ghost. They will follow them. When the time comes, they will follow them. Conclusion fourteen: and wolves. Final Conclusion and Summery: Through the preceding events or some like course, Jon Snow will amass an army of wildlings, giants, wolves, northmen, rivermen, stormlands men, commonfolk, and the brotherhood without banners to his cause. Depending on how the Sansa story works out, he may even get the Vale lords on his side.

I think its a pretext to get Alayne Stone and Harry the Heir to meet each other and hopefully get him to agree to the betrothal. His consent is the one thing barring the match, so Alayne must try to woo him.