StarksInTheNorth

I actually am really liking Aemond in this? Definitely more than in canon, for sure. I think aging up his nephews / de-aging him has really helped, because it’s more fair then when the fight starts with him slapping a 3-year-old who I think just lost his father? He also obviously possesses the only Green Targaryen brain cell that the boys were given, since Helaena is a dreamer and got double the brain cells. That’s strongly implied in the books, but shown more here since he understands duty and not to blame his mother for calling them strongs, etc. Like the greens may have actually won if they crowned Aemond instead.

I just checked the so spake Martin search engine and couldn’t find anything either. I think I remember an interview when GRRM said he was surprised people hated them as viscerally as they do. But he’s also said Daemon is his favorite Targaryen which makes it hard to think he’s not at least a little biased for team Black (even though the ultimate thesis seems to be everyone sucks when the thrones involved and the innocents and children suffer)

I’ve really liked how the show has done most things at this point, although I wish they were a little more ambiguous with Alicent’s ambition or fear for her kids. It would’ve made it more even before this episode broke the camel’s back. Like, have Larys feed the seeds Otto planted, with rumors that Baela has already been promised to be a queen, or describing the fight from the training yard as more violent than it was. But if Alicent avoids telling Aegon he must be king until this episode, and then finally everything happens and she says “you have to be king or else we’re all as dead as your brothers eye,” then it makes it more believable in her build towards fully hating Rhaenyra, rather than just considering her a hypocrite It would balance the books, which really don’t make Rhaenyra and co. look awful until Blood and Cheese happens. Rhaenyra’s crimes pre-Dance are: - Being born a girl - Potential inappropriate relations between Rhaenyra and Daemon - An unclear affair or sexual involvement with Harwin or Criston - Giving birth to bastards - Luke taking Aemond’s eye in a fight when Luke is significantly younger - Marrying Daemon - Being jealous about Alicent being prettier than her because she put on a little weight The entire basis of bad feelings really comes from Daemon and all the murders he maybe caused - Rhea, Harwin, Laenor, etc. Hes also uncommitted to ruling or helping on the Small Council, he hangs out with the commons and whores, and made the goldcloaks violent, but those are acceptable in other princes so none are fatal flaws, unlike the seduction and murder. Meanwhile during all of this, Otto and Alicent are actively conspiring to make Aegon king in front of the world, which Rhaenyra pretty much just puts up with?

@Ran now that we're all caught up with you, can you please confirm who you meant when you said the following: "we think there’s maybe a risk that this particular character will come off in a too-positive light compared to Fire and Blood’s duelling accounts, and consequently place her opposite number in too-negative a light for some in the audience. We’ll have to say how that plays out." "Not all the changes can be explained as purely a matter of getting the material translated to the screen, of course, and one in particular regarding a male character feels so oddly unnecessary that we wonder if there were external reasons for the change (i.e. the writers did it for fear of criticism, because of something similar Game of Thrones did with one of its secondary characters)." And also, if you don't mind extrapolating, what details of the history of the Targaryens have been adjusted to minimize the knock-on effect of the Velaryons being black? I haven't been able to notice anything, afaik.

I heard that comment / viewed the scene as it became more real for him that she was into it, not unappealing. Like, oh I'm trying to seduce my niece to screw with my brother, but this might actually really hurt her too and I love her a lot.

I wholly disagree with this. As a generalization, men are more likely to be stimulated by straight-forward visuals (body parts) but women prefer more emotional connections. We got that throughout the entire scene, especially with the gentle, close focus on their intimate touches as she removed his armor

Can someone please explain why there were a bunch of river lords in the Storm Lands?

^^^ all of this. It will also potentially add some more flavor to the “should we tell Rhaenyra” scene. Maybe Beesbury vote yes first, and then instead of anyone else voting, the Defenestration of Prague is brought into the real world.

Well luckily I never said only! Again, some people are capable of engaging with nuance but plenty aren’t. if someone is still hung up on the race switch over a year past the announcement, then they maybe should go touch grass.

@Corvinus85 @Mark Antony re the passing down to heirs being a can of worms - I think it depends how much they lean into the secret and how much they just let it be subtle in the background. Hopefully we don’t get Rhaenyra saying “but I know this big secret they need to make me queen to save the world!” Every other scene. But I also kind of want her to tell Jacaerys because we could get a great scene between him and Cregan Stark talking about the threat beyond the wall. It would make total sense if there was a “you can tell your sister-wife or brother-husband” caveat to the rule. Aegon would almost certainly have told Visenya and Rhaenys, since they sat the Iron Throne in judgement in a way other queens did not. Aegon told Aenys who told Aegon the Uncrowned, Visenya told Maegor and went to get him as a stronger contender to lead the realm (there’s a solid chance that year was Winter, so it makes Visenya more justified). Young Aegon tells Rhaena while debating if he should rebel, Rhaena tells Jaehaerys who tells Alysanne. Jaehaerys tells his many heirs, Viserys waits to tell Daemon because he’s not at risk of dying and it’s peace time. Rhaenyra is also more justified in her urgency because the Dance is during / prior to Winter so she could think the Long Night is nearing.

I’m really curious if the decide to have Alicent be ambitious or if it’s really just Otto. It didn’t feel like she was on screen enough to tell yet. It did feel like her projecting onto Rhaenyra, who mostly seemed worried for her mother. The trailers show her believing Rhaenyra is devious or ruthless, but Rhaenyra here seems like she’s more interested in living her life and having fun. She wants to fly her dragon and go on adventures, much like Young Arya. But getting invited to the table of power seems like it might change Rhaenyra, which will also change the dynamic of their friendship as well I’m sure. With Alicent’s crush - I felt that she was crushing on Daemon more than Viserys. After Daemon beat her brother and asked for Alicent’s favor, she glanced at Otto and he was obviously displeased with her giving it to Dameon. In comparison, she started getting anxious and biting her nails when her dad sent her to Viserys. In that interaction, I read it as Alicent being a kind person and offering empathy because she knows that everyone is trying to politic Viserys. What he needs is someone to care for him, and she was that supportive shoulder when no one else was there for him.

I started to write a whole explanation of why the race thing doesn’t actually matter and why white portryals in media is different from black portrayals but I’m not interested in engaging trolls or racists so I’m ignoring. The reason I’m writing any comment at all is @Ran is there anyway we could get a rule against discussing this topic? You and Linda tried to engage the topic with nuance but we’ve already had over a year of racist complaints and it’s all repetitive and tired.

In-universe, he was a popular, well-liked king during his time. It makes sense that they would try and soften some of his character to make viewers feel that way as well even if their opinion may be different upon reflection, with more context. Besides that, my main takeaway is that I LOATHE the way they pronounce Aemma as regular Emma. I’ve assumed it was a Valyrian name, since I believe Princess Daella chose it? It makes no sense that Aemma would not be Aye-ma, like other similar Valyrian names: Aye-gon and Aye-mom. Now making me question my sanity. Is Aelor actually El-Or? I was very excited for Aemma and loved her moments with Rhaenyra. I would’ve loved a conversation between Aemma and Rhaenys though, since this is the first time we’ve ever seen multiple Targaryen women interact, but it would probably be repetitive of the conversation Rhaenys will have soon with Rhaenyra. I was surprised by how well they handled the connection to GOT with the mention of the Long Night. I don’t love the concept, and I hope they don’t mention it too much moving forward, but it worked surprisingly well. Also appreciated how they mentioned Rhea Royce, though part of me doubts we see her on screen. I’ve got some questions about how they handle the Alicent / Viserys build up because he very clearly loved Aemma until the end and seems quite heartbroken. There’s got to be some drama with that pairing to make Alicent believe that Rhaenyra will be ruthless and kill Alicent’s kids, since we’ve seen part of the scene with Alicent and Helaena. They’ve teed it the marriage up nicely with Otto gently pushing the idea of Alicent visiting Viserys, so no one should be shocked, but there’s hopefully some closeness and / or drama there to come.

Have they released a reason why the dragon logo has hands and feet in HOTD? I know they said we'd learn at one point, but I'm really desperate to know this minuscule detail.

It could also make the Jacaerys plotline in the North more interesting. As the heir, his mother may have told him the truth of the matter. So when he goes to appeal to Cregan Stark, there's further reason to make the Pact of Ice and Fire. It's not just about protecting the throne for Rhaenyra, but about protecting the North when the Others come. This is mostly speculation, of course, but it's interesting to think on,.