Odej

I just don't like her, it's hard to explain. Pointing out her hatred for the Starks and this leading her to ally with the Boltons could be a reason. But being honest, I like several character who hate the Starks, so her hate for them isn't really a big deal now I think about it. The woman lost her lover, potential husbands (Brandon and Ned), her actual husband, a sister, a nephew. She went through a lot, but I can't stand her. I just want her dead, I don't know why she pisses me off so much. I recognized that doesn't match well with this thread goal. In my case Barbrey belongs more to 'characters you hate for no particular reason but you can't help yourself' thread.

Everybody hates Ramsey, she more than anyone because of Domeric and she definitely despises Roose as well, but don't like her. I don't think she plays double, but even if she does, I don't feel anything good for her.

I really liked him during most of my time with this universe, this reflection on him came to my mind recently and I can no longer see him in the same way. Negligence can also cause a lot of damage. That would be nice!

Ok, that's probably controversial: Maester Aemon. I think the all the excuses he gives to stay way from power aren't a sign of a honorable heart, but of someone running away from responsibility. He defends the throne belongs to Aegon, his little brother. Really? A guy who spent most of his life wandering around Westeros with a hedge knight and who had little contact with the political game would be a better king that Aemon, a highly capable maester? He himself recognized that Aegon was in many ways still a boy and Aemon still left the seven kingdoms in Aegon hands with a kiss and a advice when he was by far the best option for the throne between his brothers. That whole little speech he gives to Jon Snow about love and duty sounds pretty hypocritical to me.

Barbrey Dustin. Do I understand the reasons why she hates the Starks? Yes. Do I want Manderly and Stannis to display her head on the walls of Winterfell alongside the Boltons and Freys? YES.

Cersei. Lysa. Theon. Tyrion.

I mean, by the time Rhaegar was 10 years old even if queen Rhaella had gave him a living sister it will would be many years before she could married him. During Aerys's reign the targareyns could be counted on one hand, they really need expand their numbers and Rhaegar got married late by targaryen's standard. No other lord had the same idea as Tywin in offering a daughter, niece, granddaughter, whatever as a wife to the prince? I wonder if this could be a Maester's conspiration thing (if there is one) and that somehow the lords were manipulated by their maesters into marrying their daugthers among other noble houses rather than seeking a royal marriage. Or Martin could have just been lazy when he wrote the matter of Rhaegar's bride.

Perhaps this is exactly why Stannis is unloved. Most of the nobles known and loved by the people and the nobility are those who participate in events such as tournaments, banquets, balls and have the flair and charm necessary to arouse people's affection at these events. Sociable people with some charisma, which is not the case with Stannis. He was probably not a regular at these events and when he did go he behaved like... Stannis. He is a competent military man and he apparently manages his domains well, but most of the people who follow him seem to do so driven above all by duty, not by affection. And since none of his brothers, who were loved by the crowd, liked him it's natural that people jumped on the bandwagon. A golden opportunity for Stannis to gain people's heart was during Balon's Rebellion. The guy commanded thousands of soldiers and ships and simply defeated the ironborn at sea. It would fill anyone who was part of such a victory with pride and a sense of devotion if their commander had any tact. I think Stannis is in some ways similar to Aegon III. From what we know, Aegon was a competent ruler, but was cold and distant. He never worried about winning the love of his subjects and it was this detail that made all the difference in the people's feelings towards him. Aegon is not remembered fondly, however good and peaceful his reign was. In the end, people don't just want bread, they want circuses too.

Well, this make things even more complicated. She simultaneously desires to be Oberyn's daugther and fantasizes about a lover who looks like him... Littlefinger feelings for Sansa are quite similiar. Who would you said are the most handsome targaryen men? Martin spend more time describing the beauty of the tagaryen females, so I don't really think about the guys. I waiting to see Arianne description of Aegon.

I would say she is. Gerold Dayne description match with the valyrian look: handsome, with purple eyes and silver hair. She didn't like Lysono Maar, who had the same eyes and hair color, but it seems he had a more exotic appearance and looked like a woman. I imagine that even the famous blood of Valyria had its bad apples I really didn't remember this quote. How old was she then?

1. Arianne is described as a beautiful young woman, so yes, Viserys would get hot for her. That fact she is Quentyn's sister and Quentyn wasn't a hot boy is irrelevant, siblings not always look alike. 2. Arianne wasn't into incest, she fantasizes about being Oberyn's daughter, not his mistress. She desires the freedom Oberyn gave to his bastards daughters, a life Arianne could never had since she is the heir of Dorne. She also had a temper more like Oberyn's, so it's fair to think she had more in common with her uncle than with her father. 3. Viserys would probably like Arianne's impulsiveness and taste for sex, but I doubt she would like him. He was a mean, weak, dumb, skinny little brat. Not the princess of dorne type.

I don't think the guy is gonna take this as a argument. He said in another post anything Martin says out of the book is not canon.

Catelyn remembers sometimes she would go to Sansa's room a night and brushed her hair instead let the job to Sansa's handmaid. This is a big thing for that society and is really cute too. Bran also remembers Ned telling him and his siblings stories.

Thank you. @Lee-Sensei If I can give you a advise, I believe you are loosing your time with this.

I'm still waiting for the answer to this question. I think that all this discussion has no point if one of the parts don't take as true what the writer says about his own characters.

I think since by the time Martin wrote the first book his intention was to write a trilogy and only when he was writing ACOK he realised the story was going to get more complex, those flaws are kind of understandable. The whole Daenerys/Viserys/Aegon/Varys&Illyrio's thing is another of them.

I've been following the discussion and I really need to talk about this. How can be irrelevant the writer's words about his own character? Martin gives many information about asoiaf universe in interviews and on his blog, not only in the books. And since we don't have Robert's POV (same case to many other characters) this is a good way to get his feelings about things that weren't shown in the books, whatever was the reason for Martin didn't do it. Aren't these informations canon to you because they aren't in the books even though the owner of the story had said it?

Forgive them Naerys and Rhaella. They don't know what they are saying.

It's really necessary to argue why someone who: Used her baby brother as scapegoat when she heard a tale she didn't like; Killed a child when she herserf was a child and stay close enough to hear Melara cry for help; Murdered babies; Gave Falyse as a guinea pig to Qyburn; Forges a whole story to torture Margaery's singer; Thinks septans pray to be raped; (And the list goes on) Is a monster?

Although I agree that the rebellion was more to blame for Aerys and Rhaegar than anyone else, Brandon's attitude is something I find very stupid. His request for an explanation for his sister's apparent abduction is perfectly understandable. But arriving at RedKeep with half a dozen guys threatening to kill the crown prince, son of a wisely crazy king known for burning people alive is not the wisest of ideas. Even though he was absolutely right. It's something that makes me roll my eyes as much as Ned did telling Cersei he knows about her and Jaime in the first book. Did they have good reasons? Absolutely! Were they smart? No. This is a recurring problem with the Starks, having good intentions but executing them foolishly.

He didn't. He was supposed to do what he was told, to send Ned to the Wall. Cersei complains about it to Tyrion when he arrives in King's Landing, that Janos Slynt and whoever else grabbed Ned after Joffrey's order did so without waiting for her command.

I never imagined it would be necessary to explain to someone why Joffrey Baratheon is a monster. Much less why anyone with half a brain would do anything not to trap a beloved family member to him by a marriage.

No, he didn't. Next.

Maybe he didn't have any great love on his youth. Barristan appears to be one of the that knights who live for their sword and it's more interesting for the story that he had fell in love for a woman when a relationship between them were nearly impossible. Add some tragedy to the already tragic story of Ashara Dayne. The only thing the bothers me it's not knowing how old was Ashara at the time. Her and her brother's age is something I really would like Martin reveals.

Tyrion was thirteen so Jaime was nineteen-twenty.