EggBlue

1 hour ago, Lord Edmure of Riverrun said:

Jyanna Reed is Lyanna!

obviously ... Jon is Craster's son, so Lyanna after feeling all the guilt knowing her family and her savior(aka. Rhaegar Targaryen) had died wished to die on her bed of blood... only... she didn't! she was reunited with her secret crush, Howland Reed, took a new name and extracted two promises from Ned: a/leave her alone b/take away Craster's demon child away...... 

it all makes so much sense!! 

3 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

How come no one ever thinks Howland Reed is Jon's father?  This is the ONE GUY we KNOW Lyanna was actually really friendly to.  

I know! right?!

honestly, if there wasn't the logical reason that Howland would raise his son on his own, I would have loved this theory so much, because it would be the exact subversion of "the knight getting the girl after defending her honor" trope!  cute! 

2 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

Disclaimer: I would LOOOOOOOVE for Mance to be Jon's father. That said, there's sadly zero support for this idea.

me too!  it's such a shame that most likely even the ages do not fit! 

2 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

Care to share *any* support from the text to back this up?

No? Didn't think so. 

 not much... well not any that shows connections between L and A , but another theory that I personally just like so much! BECAUSE imagine Jon leads the battle for the Dawn with Dawn in hand.... cool, ha?! 

2 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

Jon is Jesus/Anakin. There was no father. Jon was conceived by the powers that be in response to the reawakening of magic. It is Jon's destiny to save the world.

yep! this is known....

1 hour ago, Lord Edmure of Riverrun said:

And it made me laugh. It’s baseless and disgusting, and seems to come from Targ-fanatics that want to make the Starks look as bad as the Targs

yeah ! and might I add it's pretty hypocritical?! like, let's praise Targaryens for incest but the Starks are filthy monsters for incest?! 

I mean, yeah, I agree that Jon is a bastard no matter who his parents are (Not Ned I presume!), so what?!... 

no matter whether he'll be the Last Hero of the series or the Night's King or both (like I suspect), it does not matter whether his parents had sex in or out of wedlock! 

I've heard some fans say Jon should be revealed to be a legitimate son because he has so much trouble with his bastardy. no matter the parentage, Jon is Ned's son and any secret that's revealed will only matter for the character in light of his relationship with Ned. Jon has issues with his bastardy due to his relationship with Ned. now if it's revealed that Ned is actually his uncle who hasn't talked to him about his mother/father for perfectly good reasons and that he has sacrificed his honor and risked his marriage just to keep Jon safe, then Jon's issues with his "father" will eventually be pretty much resolved.

10 minutes ago, Nathan Stark said:

No, it's not delusional or selfish to want to see an end to the fighting. Ellaria Sand makes a very similar argument in AFfC. Ultimately, Catelyn is right that defeating the Lannisters won't bring Ned or Rickard Karstark's sons or anybody else back. The problem with Cat's argument for peace is not that she is selfish or delusional, but that there are multiple claimants to the Iron Throne, so who do you make peace with? Joffrey can be ruled out for obvious reasons, but first Renly, then Stannis, declare their intent to take the Iron Throne. To make peace with one of them is to make an enemy of the other. There were reasons why suing for peace was impractical at the end of A Game of Thromes, but it is not because Catelyn was selfish or delusional.

to be clear, the desire for peace is not what sounds selfish or delusional to me. but to think in that particular situation it was an option to make peace with Joffrey of all people was indeed delusional. and her proposal lacking any plan beyond saving her daughters sounded selfish which makes it completely understandable for Karstark to call her out on that. at that point Tywin and Jaimie had broken the King's peace, Joffrey supported them and executed Ned, warden of the North, with a very Aerys-like rationale. they had already fought a war and lost even more people. and what was Cat's proposal? let's trade one of the guys who has created this mess with my daughters and go home! if they made peace with Joffrey at that point, they got no justice and could have been easily undermined again considering what Joffrey could pull with their overlord and get away with it, and to think they could trade hostages with Joffrey and swear fealty to another king was something Joffrey would've never allowed which was easy to see. 

I agree with @Many-Faced Votary that Robb's coronation was a tragedy and doomed him from the beginning. what with his crown, he lost the option of an easy alliance with Stannis or Renly. 

but I absolutely do not agree that Ellaria's argument is similar to Cat's . simply because the situation differs by a mile. Martells and Sand Snakes are looking for revenge for something that happened 20 years ago and something that happened during a legal trial and the murderers are already dead. moreover, Ellaria's speech happens during a time of peace where Tommen Baratheon is the only king with any power (Stan had fled at that point) , and Tommen Baratheon has not done any injustice, unlike Joff. meanwhile, Northern houses were looking for justice, and that only turned into revenge when Karstark killed the Lannister boys. 

3 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

He could smash the hell out of it but not bring it to its knees. Perhaps, if he'd tried harder to save Sansa his mother wouldn't have cost him a bargaining chip by freeing Jaime.

honestly, his mother was being unreasonable from the beginning. after Jaimie's capture and Ned's death, before Robb was named king , she thought it was a good idea to trade Jaimie with her daughters although at that point other houses had lost sons and men trying to save their lord who had died regardless! I mean, isn't that seriously delusional and selfish thinking?  that must be why Robb stopped listening to her even though he so desperately needed an adult's counsel who was without a doubt on his side.

4 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

I'd say another one is that Robb never tried to rescue Sansa; it should have been on his mind that Joffrey having Ned executed against all advice meant that she was in danger at any given moment.

I agree with this. (though I still wouldn't call it "sin") . I think Robb found himself in an impossible situation in which his only option was to win the war to rescue his sisters and being so young and inexperienced didn't help him at all. none of his advisors seemed to be useful; Cat just wanted her children back which was kind of selfish to abandon the cause when the others had lost their kids in an attempt to rescue her husband and now wanted justice and revenge. and Robb was trying his best to compromise. I guess he thought having Jaimie and keeping him alive equals fair enough treatment from Lannisters. after all, being Ned's son I doubt he could ever bring himself to threaten anyone with torture.  though, after they married Sansa to Tyrion (something Robb couldn't pay off with anything to Jaimie), he became completely desperate which led to his famous will. 

Robb is sinless. 

58 minutes ago, Many-Faced Votary said:

Honestly, there is any number of nonsensical theories, or wishful thinking masquerading as theories, or extreme reaches to try fitting headcanon; but I think the worst theories are those insidiously accepted as canon by a large portion of readers, despite the text not actually supporting them meaningfully or even contradicting them.

I won't name the offenders in my eyes so as not to derail the topic, but I can't help but be reminded of similar popular theories that were thoroughly dismantled when the next book was published, back when new books were actually released.

cool!  ... what theories?!*

*some of us have never experienced a new book release. so please do elaborate! 

Just now, Prince Rhaegar Targareyen said:

I got another bad one!

That Bran will warg into Hodor and SA Meera. 

congrats! that's a close one to Sarella=Shae theory! 

I think Stoneheart's fate will be at the hands of Arya or that her story will eventually be linked closely to Arya's since Arya's wolf found her corpse. specifically for Arya to see the very end of a revenge-filled life and give her mother the gift of mercy. that'd be a messed up closure, but a closure Arya needs nonetheless. 

p.s. when I read the title I thought "we are not done with ______ , the ____heart theories?!" ..... 

well, to this day, the most disgusting, disturbing, wired, laughable, and fucked up theory I've seen is Sarella=Shae theory; which does not end there! this theory claims that the Red Viper has raped and groomed his own daughter to be a whore to eventually send her to Tywin Lannister when some war someday happens so she can poison Tywin at the end and avenge his sister who was raped and murdered! I mean, COME ON! 

and a lot of these weird theories are also laughable:

one of the best qualities of Oberyn Martell is his loyalty and love for his family. yet, if we were to blame one person for their tragedies, we reach Oberyn who fucks them all up with two simple acts: mocking Baelor Hightower and killing lord Yornwood!

see..

•  After she doesn't marry Baelor, Elia marries Rhaegar , leading to her death. 
• Doran has to promise his son to Yornwoods in exchange for Oberyn's action, destroying his relationship with Mellario. 
• Arianne and Quentyn have a nonexistent relationship because he had to be sent to Yornwood.
• Arianne's relationship with both Doran and Quentyn is affected because Doran cooked up a super secret plan in order to avenge Elia who wouldn't have been dead if she was married to Baelor Hightower!
• Arianne might screw Dorne up because she apparently lacks the proper education to rule over Dorne since Doran had prepared her to be Queen of 7k instead of the princess of Dorne. 

if only our favorite rogue prince was more cautious! 

does the champion of the melee gets a laurel for QoLaB in the tourneys or is it just the jouster? 

3 hours ago, LynnS said:

It was interesting to see video footage inside Gibralter.  It gives me a better idea of how GRRM imagines the inside of Casterly Rock.  You have to wonder how the Eyrie was built and if it was carved out of the mountain ,which seems easier than hawling up blocks of stone, to the pinnacle.  Same with Dragonstone.  It seems to be carved from the volcano with the main residence inside the volcano.

that's definitely the way the show's Eyrie seems to be built and it's one of the best castle designs in the show imo. my head canon for Dragonstone and Valyria is that they manipulated lava with fire magic to shape their dragons and such. Dragonstone hardly seems carved out of stone.  

1 hour ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I think the problem is that every character was so uniformly serious. We keep hearing about how this is “the age of decadence,” yet no one seems to ever be enjoying themselves. (And that includes Daemon. He’s the most miserable troublemaker I’ve ever seen). The only exception was teenage Aegon, and he only lasted two episodes.

yes, but that's not something they can so easily fix in season two because by now, every major character is pretty much established. they can't give over-serious Jace funny lines for example. which leaves new characters, most of whom , again, are people without a sense of humor. granted though, they can make an Olenna out of Jeyne(which I wouldn't appreciate) and Daemon can be in a better mood in chaos.

guys! you NEED to see this! lol.... especially the ending: "actually all you really need is a Stark with two working hands"

On 2/9/2023 at 11:42 PM, Lord Varys said:

I was wondering whether George's recent longer NAB post about Casterly Rock might not necessarily signify he has written (much) material set at Casterly Rock for TWoW or ADoS but rather reflect talks and info dumps he gave the producers of HotD.

I doubt they change the castle completely. Most likely, they will only add a few details. otherwise, if retconning castles is an option, I'm all for a new Winterfell  

anyways, it'll be nice to see lady Joanna and lady Sam from earlier in the series, especially since lady Sam is in a terrible situation, being married to the enemies of her house. And later, she singlehandedly stopped the war( the Hightower boy wanted to continue, didn't he?) 

Tywin and Walder Frey are on the same level occupying #1. Joffrey, Aerys, and Ramsay , and other members of the crazy bunch, come next. and afterward I'd say Ironborn(especially Balon) , Lysa Arryn, and LittleFinger (his cruelty comes from his pettiness). 

I find Jon Snow is Arthur Dayne's son and will be the next Sword of the Morning intriguing and I like it a lot. but in all honesty, I don't have much hope!

my other favorite theories, regardless of evidence: 

1. Dragons and the Others will survive the conflict and human exploitation and will live in the wild by the end!

2. Seasons will become normal after the Long Night

3. Jon Snow will become a Night King figure who is a tragic hero who will be remembered as a villain. 

4. Aegon is Aegon and Lemore is Ashara . (I like the Ashara=Jyanna Reed theory but when I think Ned and Howland killed Arthur I cannot imagine how Ashara might want to have anything to do with either of them...)

5. Lem is Richard and Jaimie will reveal it 

6. Tommen is the Valanquer and he'll mercy kill his mother . dark . I know . but it's GRRM. 

On 2/4/2023 at 7:30 PM, Melifeather said:

I think Alayne is viewed with much disdain since Petyr is also viewed with contempt. We're familiar with up-jumped knights, but Petyr is an up-jumped Lord. When the marriage was proposed to Harry the Heir, he pretty much thought Alayne was beneath his station which I think is a nod towards what Ashara thought about her marriage prospects after giving birth. She didn't want to marry beneath her station. She found it as distasteful as Harry did of his match with Alayne.

On 2/4/2023 at 7:30 PM, Melifeather said:

Circling back to how the Daynes would feel about Ned...who exactly was left at Starfall after the Rebellion? I suspect that it was only Ashara and the household guards and servants. 

The problems with this scenario are Ned Dayne's age, the Dornish culture being more open to an inheriting lady who's just given birth to a bastard if she is indeed the last person in Starfall, and the situation between Ashara and Ned being too rocky at that point for her to be grateful. 

On 2/4/2023 at 7:30 PM, Melifeather said:

Lady Lenore is more likely Rhaella Targaryen. There isn't a description of what Rhaella looked like, but you have to remember that her grandmother was Bella Blackwood, aka Black Betha due to her black hair and eyes. Who better to care for baby Aegon than his own grandmother? After successive miscarriages, Aegon became suspicious of Rhaella and she spent much of her time with septas. It would be easy for her to assume the identity of a septa since she spent so much time with them.

I'm afraid I have to disagree with Rhaella=Septa Lemore theory. and it has nothing to do with looks which is hardly the thing one can get from a book's pages. I believe in figuring out Lemore's identity , we must pay close attention to Jon Con's chapters. Jon is everything you expect from an arrogant, proud nobleman and a Targaryen loyalist. men like Jon care about the class system A LOT. he cares about hierarchy whether in the Red Keep or on a small boat on the other side of the world. this guy respects Lemore like almost an equal. but it ends there. he doesn't see a reason to listen to Lemore's council after hearing it , despite his fondness and respect for the woman. this is not the treatment Jon Con would give his queen. whether he likes it or not Rhaella Targaryen would be above him , not an equal. he would have to convince her of his plans and wouldn't dismiss her worries in an order. no. Lemore is a Westerosi Lady. 

7 hours ago, Melifeather said:

I believe that Wylla is Ashara Dayne living in her father's home at Starfall under an assumed identity much like Alayne is actually Sansa, pretending to be Littlefinger's daughter living in his household. 

The Dayne family tree is sparse. Edric Dayne is supposedly the son of an unnamed brother of Ashara and named after Ned Stark. Why is he not worthy of the sword Dawn? If his age wasn't inconveniently a year younger than Sansa's I'd be tempted to believe he's Ned's son.

Edric told Arya that when he was born his mother wasn't able to produce enough milk to nurse him so Wylla became his milk-mother. The thing is, women don't produce milk indefinitely. Jon Snow was born in 283 and the wiki estimates that Edric was born 4 years later in 287, so how did Wylla continue to lactate? Unless Edric is older and closer to Jon in age. Alternately, Wylla would need to give birth to another child between Jon and Edric to keep the milk supply going or be a continual wetnurse.

If my suspicions that Jon Snow is Ashara and Ned's son, then he could claim the sword Dawn.

I do like Sansa/Ashara parallel. but, Wylla/Alayne doesn't align at all. Wylla is a servant, Alayne is a bastard lady. their roles, purpose and connection to the family are different. then of course there's the logistics part that should be considered to a degree. if Wylla is indeed Ashara, then Daynes have turned their daughter/sister into a servant . not to mention, this situation doesn't explain a Ned Stark involvement at all... if anything, it would make Daynes hate Ned even more. what with Knocking up their sister, leaving her to be a servant, and killing Arthur who was doing his job. the fact that Wylla was both Ned's and Jon's wet nurse simply means that she has at least 2 children: one is 15 , the other is 12. 

I still tend to stick to my theory that Ashara is Lemore and that Ned has covered for her and house Dayne.

7 hours ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

Yes, but it still doesn't make sense for him to be the only Dayne to ever join the Kingsguard.

he clearly fucked up there! maybe that's why he always has a "sad smile" in memories! he was the perfect knight and had to stop being the perfect knight to be the perfect Kingsgaurd. likely, by the end he was neither.

one could say Arthur made the choice that Jon's friends stopped him to do. Arthur chose to be a kingsgaurd to be by his brother's(Rhaegar's) side, while Jon was persuaded not to follow his brother(Robb) . 

2 hours ago, Sly Wren said:

If that holds, and if Jon is the next Sword of the Morning, his daddy's a Dayne.

aaand ... another cover up by Ned Stark for Daynes. I mean, what did Robert do to Rhaegar's family when he thought Rhaegar has hooked up with Lyanna?! 

2 hours ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

Even so, 12 years old is too young to become Sword of the Morning, he is still just a squire at this point. Which is probably why GRRM created Darkstar. 

totally plausible. but what a disappointing development! a man of the night instead of the knight in shining armor

4 hours ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

It's commonly accepted in the fandom that the original plan was for Edric Dayne to have Dawn, so I wonder what kind of character he would have become in that scenario. Heroic or villainous?

i'm pretty sure his involvement with Beric was to make him people's champion.  I still don't put it past him to eventually wield Dawn.  he is 14 which is the same age as Jon when he got Longclaw.  though,  I personally like for Jon to wield Dawn, if it's going to be important.  it would have to go against some popular theories,  but then it'll respect #1 fantasy rule:  the hero gets the shining blade

4 hours ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

Only a Dayne who is deemed worthy can legally claim it, but it doesn’t mean that someone else can’t steal it. 

please! Dawn wouldn't work for someone unworthy, it'll be just like an ordinary sword.. say, like the elder wand!