EggBlue

12 minutes ago, LynnS said:

 didn't he also say that someone who is not a Dayne could claim the sword?

he said that? in the world book specifically says a knight of house Dayne and any doubt I had was gone with this line : " There are boys who secretly dream of being a son of Starfall so they might claim that storied sword and its title"

17 minutes ago, alienarea said:

Dawn seems to be missing.

Ned claims he returned it to House Dayne, but is this true?

If Dawn is the sword of the Night King, maybe Ned picking it up after defeating Arthur Dayne triggered the rise of the White Walkers?

And that is what Mance will do in the crypts - remove Dawn from the Night's King buried there and thus ending the White Walkers?

 

Daynes already have more than enough reasons to hate Ned. If he'd taken Dawn too, I can't imagine what makes them name their heir after him.

I'm ranking by wealth, military and political influence and between every house that's not one of the big 6 :

1. Hightower 

2.Velaryon

3.Redwyne

4.Yornwood

5.Mandely

absolutely not . 

Blackfyre rebellions ended in his reign but the praise for ending Blackfyre line goes to Maelys himself. if I recall correctly, he killed his cousin and the rest of the family before styling himself king. and crushing the ninepenny kings wasn't more difficult than any other Blackfyre rebellion . probably even easier, as it is likely that the Crown had foreign alliances . 

then , there's the issue of the Tarbeck-Rein rebellion. he was far too lenient with Tywin imo . yes Tywin was collecting debt and he was crushing his enemies but he went beyond the king's justice and should have been punished for it . 

lastly , let's not forget the heir he groomed was Aerys and that he forced his own children into a marriage that was far from ideal for either of them. 

Tywin Lannister , Gregor Clegane , Kevan to a certain extent , Pycelle , Qybern , Roose Bolton , Cersei 

the problem is not that the sword doesn't have a hilt , it's that it shouldn't be a sword in the first place and if it is you've gotta use it with open eyes.

the way I see it , the magic in itself is not alien to this world ,rather its exploitation by humans is ; which we had seen with Valyria for example.  magic is a disrupter to the system that this world functions in. however , all we see of this system throughout the story is corruption and disfunction . maesters try to craft a scholarly world without magic , but the result is their ignorance of a huge element of this world which is somewhat equivalent of the disregard and fear of medieval era for new scientific discoveries. so , by the end of the story , I don't expect the death of the Old Gods or the death of magic . I'm expecting something like freeing these forces .lol . meaning dragons and the Others will go back to their natural habitat

1 hour ago, Phylum of Alexandria said:

1. The Mastiff reveals himself to Dany as her family's maester from the Dragonstone days

who is Mastiff? 

this is refreshing! 

predictions:

1. Daenerys will go to Westeros in the last chapter

2. Barristan Selmy betrays his queen !

3. Sansa will take down little finger by the end of the book

4. Aegon takes kingslanding  and Cersei flees

5. Jon is not dead . he'll be warging Ghost and will be guided by Bran until he wakes up halfway through the book and in a very Night's King manner realizes that in order to keep the watch in order and save everyone, he has to be some sort of tyrant commander!

hopes:

1. we'll find out what is up with crypts

2.Starks take Winterfell

3.Ramsay and Roose die

4. SH and Arya meet up

5.Victarion dies

wishfull thinking : 

1. we'll get to see what is up with Varys 

2. Jon Con won't go mad and survives the book 

3. Aegon DOES NOT kill Tommen, instead, he names him lord of Stormsend to make Tyrells happy and keeps him as his hostage.

4. Cersei won't survive the book

5. Gregor dies .

4 hours ago, sifth said:

If this happens, I hope Ser. Barristan isn't around to see it. The poor guy just wants to serve a king or queen that's a good person and devote the rest of his life to their service. It's such an unselfish request, I'd honestly feel bad, if he lived long enough to see Dany go mad. He truly believes in her.

I don't think Daenerys would go mad. but it'll be kinda poetic if Barry contributes to her madness path. she is going to see three treasons and the only one whose loyalty she does not doubt is Barry. now, imagine Barry goes over to Aegon's side for whatever reason ... Dany would totally go mad! 

4 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

This is an interesting view. I don't think Barristan was that good either. He stood by and watched as Rhaella was abused and raped, along with the rest of Aerys' Kingsguard. Not even a word spoken for her. Jaime seemed to care the most out of all of them. 

most of them had worked for Aerys for years, way before he became the rapist we know and hate. that probably affected their judgment. however, I think it's more than possible that the younger ones, namely Arthur Dayne and Oswell Whent, had the same experience as Jaimie. meaning they were shocked by Aerys's actions, only to be shut down by the elder members of the Kingsgaurd. that could explain why they were seemingly prince's men rather than kingsmen . 

2 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

He was in Dorne in the end. Remember Jon Arryn had to go to Doran. Mace immediately dipped banners but no such thing is told for Doran. Ned may have fought some in Dorne.

totally possible ... I'm gonna cling on my theory anyway 

3 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Allyria may know. 
 

 

No we don’t know how things were before or even after. He may have done many things before, during or after the war. Things being good between them doesn’t necessarily involve things related to Jon. From what Cersei tells there was fighting in the Dorne as well which makes sense. Perhaps Ned prevented the ruin and destruction of Dayne lands. 

that's possible . though , he was nowhere near Dorne .

No . she won't . she'll be ruthless against her enemies , she's the mother of freaking dragons after all ! but she won't be mad . 

39 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

For Arthur’s death to mean something, for them to aid Jon when the time comes(after all, he was the kwisatz haderach) and in worst case scenario reveal to him his identity if something happens to Ned and Howland or if they decide not to tell him and prevent him from becoming who he was born to be.

obviously that's not the case . Ned Dayne is completely clueless about who Jon is . his story about Wylla , Jon and Ned sounds like something they have told him when he was 7 in a way to stop his questions . but , apparently they have wanted him to know Jon and Ned as friends of house Dayne ... so , maybe they were planning on explaining the thing later . only , lord Dayne had died . 

39 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Yes obviously there’s more to the whole thing, there was affection to begin with, the sword just added on top of that but it is by no means trivial. As for Tyrion, I’m not so sure. He had the beginnings of a good relationship with befriending Jon and aiding Bran. If he kept on doing good, we could see one  named after him

I somehow doubt that . besides , like you say Tyrion would have had to keep going like that so maybe the Starks name the next heir after him . Ned had done nothing for the Daynes before the sword thing . unless , they see impregnating their sister and leaving her behind is a blessing ... or maybe they were thrilled to see Sword of the Morning dead! you see what I mean ? turning back Dawn on its own is not enough for such regard . 

3 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

I think since the Daynelings too think Jon is Ned’s, he may have lied to them as well. That is, if they didn’t know about Lyanna pregnancy. Why would you not let  your next generation in on this secret?  
 

maybe , Ned extracted a promise from the Daynes too . what good does it make to tell those secrets to children ? 

3 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Also Martin has made a poor job of portraying it but Daynes owned  Ned big time for bringing the sword back.
 

Evidence is all there but subtle. Tywin isn’t the first to steal an ancestral sword and we know that 500 year old Valyrian swords are so important to families ,even impoverished ones would not part with it but they are willing to part with daughters, family members. Daynes don’t have a 500 year old Valyrian sword, which has hundreds like it in the continent, they own a 10.000 year old one of a kind meteorite sword, there are none like it, Valyrian swords can not even hope to match it.
 

yes Dawn is very important . but think about it this way : if Tyrion had sent out Ice back to Starks as well as Ned's body , Starks would still not name the next lord Stark Tyrion . doesn't matter that Tyrion has sent them back their sword quite honorably . these kinds of families see the honorable thing as the right thing to do . something that does make them respect the person but not so much that they feel they owe them . because after all doing the right thing is simply a duty . 

1 hour ago, KingEuronGreyjoy said:

Perhaps he still respected what Ned did. Remember the situation he was put in. Nobody expected Rhaegar to do what he did. Nobody expected the Rebellion to happen the way it did. Ned married Catelyn because he had to defend himself and his family. He killed Arthur Dayne because he had to save his sister. And he didn’t disrespect Arthur at all, he honored what Arthur did, and showed respect to the Daynes with bringing Dawn back. He probably concocted the plan in Starfall. While it may have been bitter, it was truly the best of a shitty situation. I would have respect for a young man like that. Hard as it may be.

still in that situation Ned would owe the Daynes more than they owe him . I mean , he is concealing a Targling's existence with their help. ... no , no , no ,... doesn't matter if you respect a young man for how honorable he is ; you just don't name your first born after him to remember that honorable man killed your brother and caused your sister's suicide because of his honor ! 

it must be that Daynes owe Ned , big time . for example , Lyanna may have been in Starfall . Or , my pet theory ,that I hardly have proof for , goes like this :

a) Ashara takes Aegon away from Kingslanding with Varys's help .  

b) the Kingsgaurd try to distract Ned and co. who are actually tracing Lyanna because she too is in Starfall .

c) Art in the last moment decides for some reason that he can trust Ned and tells him Lyanna's whereabouts .

d) poor Ned arrives in Starfall only to see his sister dies and leaves a baby .

e) Ned seeks out Ashara because he loves her and wants to say farewell . he somehow realizes what's going on with Aegon (maybe Art had told him that too) .

f) Ned convinces Ashara that the best way is for her to take Aegon to Essos instead of Sunspear where it'll ensure more war and bloodshed .

g) Ned gives some promises. to keep the bastard prince safe as his own , to keep Ashara's secret and let her and Aegon go , and to never mention the Daynes' close involvement with Lyanna situation and Aegon's escape which could end in their ruin and to keep Arthur Dayne's legacy intact as the honorable knight instead of the jailor! ....

oh , and this theory totally works without the Ashara/Aegon part , so omit it if you like . but I somehow doubt that lord Dayne would like Ned so much if he was the reason for the death of both his siblings.

18 minutes ago, Gilbert Green said:

Only time will tell.  But a thought that crossed my mind is that if HotD makes a ton of money and is a huge success, HBO and his publisher both are going to want him to finish F&B part 2.

you're probably right .... but hopefully, they push him to finish Winds first and then move on to FnB2 . winds could be a huge publicity... . they already have enough material for 3-4 seasons after all and even if they wish to continue , Regency could be 2 more seasons . 

I'm hoping that HoTD's Golden Globe would be such a positive development that George enjoys Winds more and finishes it faster... is it false hope?

13 hours ago, ATaleofSalt&Onions said:

I don't think being protective of Lyanna is mutually exclusive with sleeping with a girl his brother liked, and he seems like a bit of a fuckboy based on how Barbrey describes him, but that's not my main reason for why I think it's probable he did. I don't think it's at all clear that Ned did have a crush on her, so there's not necessarily any sort of brotherly betrayal at play here.

yes , he is a fuckboy and no his protectiveness on its own doesn't say anything about Ned/Ashara situation . but the combination of what we've heard of him suggests that he's the guy who cares for his siblings deeply to the point of being a total moron . his ridings with Lyanna ( not all that lady like) and his general attitude around Barbrey and other lovers suggests that he may encourage a bit of rebellious behavior in his siblings , likely he'd be the guy to encourage Ned to go for it when he's got a crush and even help him by asking for a dance for his brother . as for Ned's crush , I think Howland's tale and Allyria's account are acceptable enough .

34 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Think again  We are never given her age but hints are there that shows us Allyria is around the right age to be Ashara's daughter.

Most highborn flower at 12-13, most, but not all.

Alys is almost of an age with Jon. Alys is born in 284 or 285 war starts in 298. She was 13-14 when the war started and Robb doesn't immediately call his banners as soon as the war starts with Tywin attacking Riverlands. So I think we can say Alys still hadn't flowered at 14.

 

Beric was betrothed to Allyria but hadn't married. Why? Only possible reason is that she hadn't flowered yet, for they were betrothed for what? 4 years already at the start of the series. Beric was likely going to marry her upon his return from the tourney, but not marrying before seems to show like Alys, at the start of the war she still hadn't flowered. Since Edric, 13, learns stories of their family from his aunt we can think that there's considerable age difference between the two. GRRM also notes that many husbands would wait till the bride is 15-16. So an Allyria turning 16 around the time of the Hand's tourney would fit to be Ashara's child and also considerably older than Ned to be able to tell her these stories.

The Citadel: So Spake Martin - Age of Sexual Relations in Westeros

I might have had this conversation with you before (or maybe it was someone else ) ... all that is fair and well but Allyria's young age does not prove anything . this world is full of huge age differences between siblings ... Baratheon brother , Targaryen siblings , Jaeherys I's children , Martels, Aegon IV's kids are all but a few examples of this and Daynes could just be another one .  besides, it is not given that Allyria and Beric had not married yet because she hadn't had her period yet . we don't know if Dornish marriage age range is the same as the rest of Westeros . Sylva , Ashara and Elia were still single after the age of 20 . and Arianne , the one who complained about it , complained that her father wasn't trying to arrange useful alliances for her rather than the fact that she should be married because she is old . it could easily be the norm in Dorne that women marry in an older age . and that's not just that . Cat and Brandon were also betrothed ever since she was 12 . yet they only arranged the wedding when she was 18. Lyanna too was betrothed to Robert for years and we know that they did not arrange the wedding right after she got her period .  finally, last but not least , if the author wanted to hint that Ashara's daughter survived and lived on as Ashara's sister , he would have had to leave  better clues that do not involve remembering ages and dates . especially that he is not particularly good at dates , timelines or ages . 

34 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

I think Ned killing Arthur didn't have much to do with it as Daynes seem to be quite cool with it, and it's not a story that they tell, however the story of Ned breaking Ashara's heart is told.

yeah , I kinda think killing her brother totally kills it for her . that's why I'm completely against the Ashara+Howlad theory. lol. 

34 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

My take is Ned, may or may not know it but impregnated Ashara, they were going to marry but Brandon died and war broke so he took Brandon's cup that he didn't want. War ends and Ned tells Ashara that he can't marry her because he is now a married man. Ashara probably doesn't tell him about the baby or else, knowing Ned, he would have wanted to take it's responsibility.Ashara, heartbtoken, suicides.

Daynes' respect for Ned is curious . I don't buy it that they named their heir after him and told him enough stories about Ned that he'd be interested in speaking with him , just because he dropped down a sword after killing their brother and breaking the heart of their sister who later killed herself ! that's just ... unbelievable ! 

my take is that Ned did not know that she was pregnant and by the time she know and wanted to tell Ned , they were already at war and she decided to wait it out a bit . only to later realize he had married his brother's betrothed . however , there will still be the question of why Daynes have such regard for Ned . I could only imagine he might have had something on them that they could end up like Conningtons losing everything but he let them off the hook and never spoke of it again . I've got some pet theories  

34 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Also how funny it is that Ned appoints, unkowingly, his son in law to be as the head of the task force . 

yeah that would have been funny indeed 

46 minutes ago, 1000th Lord Commander said:

I do. Brandon and Ned were raised in two separate locations, by two different people. While Ned acknowledges Brandon as his brother, he probably feels closer kinship with Robert, since they were raised together.

so what ? Brandon is the brother who has a routine of riding with his rebellious sister , he's the guy who is ready to duel the crown prince if he thinks the man is hurting his sister . he's the guy who instead of making japes of his younger brother's shyness , steps up to ask for a dance for him himself . this guy doesn't come off as the guy who sleeps with his shy brother's crush just because he wants a good night . 

Ned and Ashara liked each other , slept together , maybe fell in love and corresponded .  she realized she is pregnant , war happened , he got married , her baby died , anything they once felt for each other likely was overshadowed by the fact that he killed her brother . ... that's all we can almost with certainty get from the text . everything else will go in the category of theories and speculations ... which I'm kinda tired to discuss right now

also , why do people think Brandon had slept with his brother's crush ? honestly, if we can get anything from 2 out of 4 times we hear of Brandon's actions , it's that he was a good brother . 

Tywin , Roose , Euron 

poor George , he seems a bit frustrated ! I kinda feel sorry for him ..

I did take a few days off for the holidays, I confess.   Shame on me, I guess.   But now I am back in the salt mine, working… working on so many bloody things, my head may soon explode.   Yes, WINDS OF WINTER, yes, yes. .....  Oh, and did I forget WINDS OF WINTER?  No, of course I didn’t.   But if I ever did, I know you folks will remind me....... well, this past week the G-Men lost a heartbreaker to the Vikings, and the Jets failed to turn up for their game against the Jags.  (Please, Mike White, get well soon).   Life is meaningless and full of pain.   Clearly, the Football Gods hate me.   Maybe they are pissed off about WINDS being so late too…...... WHITE LOTUS 2 on HBO made me want to go visit Sicily… but I won’t, not until WINDS is done and delivered, I promised...... 

(it was also somewhat funny , the way he kept writing ok ok I'm working on Winds!)

1 hour ago, LynnS said:

I got an iPad and ear buds for Xmas.  My sister and brother-in-law think I should join the 21st century.  Geez! audiobooks sound great now!  I won't let them replace my flip-phone though.  Because that's, well, Star Trek and that's 24th century.

a fan of flip-phone, ha? 

https://www.tomsguide.com/features/what-to-expect-from-foldable-phones-in-2023-galaxy-z-fold-5-pixel-fold-and-more

I hope George finishes winds this year . just to be rid of back and forth threads arguing Starks are the monsters or Targaryens , if nothing else .

in terms of cinematography , production , music and acting , I rate House of the Dragons higher than GoT season 1 . A LOT HIGHER . although I believe this might not be all that fair due to the huge difference between HOTD s01 budget and GOT s01 budget .

in terms of narrative and character writing , I think GoT season 01 did a much much better job . again this might not be a fair comparison since HOTD had to cover a big timespan with numerous characters coming and going, which wasn't the case for GOT that had a clear narrative with scenes already written in the books only in need of complements in the show. however , I can't help but feel this was basically a hole that the showrunners threw themselves into . F&B is just outlines with too many blanks to fill which could be an amazing opportunity for a writer to delve into the story and figure out everything that leads to plot points .

in comparison , I think HOTD is closer to GOT season 6 but a lot better when it comes to characters .