EggBlue

well , it would have made Quentyn more of a plot device than a character. in an interview Martin said he regrets not writing another Arys Oakheart POV to show his perspective when he .. um...ran into his death. with his POVs , readers know what Quentyn was thinking when he did what he did...they know who Quentyn is and they can feel for him . I for one, welcome the theories that suggest Quent's survival or second life . but not because his story would be pointless otherwise. it's not pointless. but it'll be fun to see our decent frog again.. having said that, the Q=A theory is a bit far fetched. Quentyn Martell could be a head of the dragon in the sense you said without making him Aegon. if there is the need to bring Rhaegar's promised son back to make him a head, it might as well be Young Griff and the second head. Aegon was a second born and the second head in Rhaegar's mind anyways and right after a half Martell princess at that.

@AlaskanSandman , the idea of Tywin orchestrating the rebellion is one of my favorite theories. although I have problems with figuring out how Ned doesn't seem to know a thing. and how had Kevan seen Lyanna to comment on her looks? .. did Rhaegar rescue her and took her somewhere else? did she get pregnant then or was she already pregnant.. perhaps at Harrenhal explaining why "bastards grow faster"? .... it makes it like a detective novel where the one who had stayed behind and seems the most innocent is behind the murder. and it's not a far cry from the mystery of Jon Arryn's murder where supposedly Lannisters and Pycell are to be blamed while Lysa and Petyr are the murderers Yandel is an unreliable narrator but Jaimie is a whole other deal ... Jaimie was in a vulnerable state when he told Brienne all those things , so I can't see why we can't trust him. and Cat's version isn't necessarily a wrong version. if you think about it (and I warn you, you better don't) , it makes sense that Brandon dies before his father: Rickard was burning and screaming and Brandon was reaching for his sword and strangling in the process...further he tries , more tight the rope gets. if his father's screams stop (meaning he has burned to death), he would lose hope and fall with grief instead of reaching forward for the sword. this stops the strangling business. meanwhile Rickard watches his son dying as he tries . it's a two way torture for both of them . and finally since burning takes longer to kill someone , Brandon dies first. it's only logical that Aerys orders cutting Rickard , giving him a "gracious kingly mercy" . so you see? Cat's version works. Rickard did see Brandon strangling himself to death before he was killed.

well, Jon is already riding the ice dragon if we consider the Wall to be that dragon; isn't he?! there is already some sort of symmetry between Jon in the Wall (ice element) and Dany with her dragons (fire elements) .. does it make any sense? :/ the problem with RLJ theory (other than some irrational out of character actions) is that it puts Jon in the middle of the story .. it represents him as a sort of balance between fire end and ice end... something he currently is not.

Ramsay to (f)Arya Alyn of Hull (started a bastard) to Baela Targaryen the second son Corbray to Rhaena Targaryen Betha Blackwood to unlikely future King Alys Rivers to Aemond you cannot be serious that one was an up jump for the both of them:)

my bad then. I read your theory and I think you mentioned Mance jousting instead of Rhaegar at Harrenhal and crowning Lyanna , whilst being glamoured to look like Rhaegar. but that doesn't make sense to me due to the reasons I mentioned before. though , if you'd be willing to go with the theory of Lyanna being the knight of the laughing tree ,then Rhaegar crowing her could simply be a gesture of respect rather than love or affection. this narrative could even work with your theory about Mance and Lyanna with Lyanna's sigil being a nod to her beloved's birthplace.

that's a bit different with Quent and Dany : though he is a prince , she is a queen in possession of dragons; therefore, Quentyn would do anything to get those dragons and forge an alliance with the dragon queen. having said that, it is possible that Rhaegar and Elia had seen a third party/paramour/surrogate mother/ whatever else OK in their marriage .. after all , they were thinking of battle for the Dawn , prophecies and relating comets to their sex life. I could accept Mance being Jon's dad... the blue bard story is the first thing that makes one think of an alternative to R+L theory that comes to mind in the first book. Mance and Rhaegar's acquaintance isn't impossible too. we do know that Rhaegar and Aemon were connected and I find it hard to believe they had never met in person. due to Aemon's age though , Rhaegar probably had to visit him at the wall (from Eastwatch instead of Kingsroad and Winterfell) ; so , Mance and Rhaegar could have met in the Wall. Mance's singing skills and his amiable personality makes him a good candidate for speaking of night's Watch gallantry in a big tournament ( a parallel to Jon sending Dareon to southron castles to recruit) . ... BUT here's the problem :Mance cannot be glamoured into looking like Rhaegar to win a tourney first of all , he said he was skeptical of Glamour magic before Mel did her trick which suggests he had never seen that magic before ,let alone using it. though Mance is a great swordsman , there is no indication that he had training with lance and jousting especially that he was trained at the Wall where you don't need lance to fight wildlings. we know people can be good at single combat and not jousting . an example of this is Robert who is skilled in the Melee and not in jousting. Rhaegar was much younger and less experienced when he lost to Selmy . unlike Mance , the knight of the laughing tree had small features. Rhaegar does sound like a cult leader . still , I haven't read those stories but wouldn't it take some time for the girl to finally be sucked into that cult? for example if she was more around that guy she would come to share his beliefs little by little but we can be sure Lyanna wasn't around Rhaegar or his friends/supporters after Harrenhal. talking about tDwD reminded me of something : in Clash Dany has a vision of Rhaegar's death with murmuring a woman's name with his last breath which suggests Rhaegar was either in love with that woman or cared about her a lot as a prophecy tool! we don't know the woman's name but Dany does, otherwise it would have been worded " he died murmuring something".. the only women in Rhaegar's life Dany is aware of are Elia and Lyanna; so, if the woman's name was X , Dany would be wondering and/or asking who X is. Therefore, we can be almost sure that Rhaegar and Ashara didn't have a thing . ... later in Dance Dany asks Barristan if Rhaegar loved his wife. she also thinks that Rhaegar abducted the woman he loved to save her from her forced marriage , something she wished Dario did for her. clearly Dany has heard Lyanna's name ... so, perhaps we should just accept the story of the lovestruck prince and the rebellious girl!... still, if I wanna push it, I'd say there's a chance of misinterpretation on Dany's part. after all , Elia and Lya (we know Ned used the short form of Lyanna ) sound a lot alike... everything can always be debatable

no , we haven't. but ,fortunately, we'll finally see Westerlands in tWoW

I agree that the whole story of Lyanna and Rhaegar doesn't make sense at some levels and honestly I personally don't like the ship:) though , it's not far fetched that a young woman who is stuck in a betrothal to a guy she sure knows will cheat on her constantly in the future , would be desperate enough to be happy with a mutual love with a married guy who might even keep to one bed rather than two for her sake since he is generally decent in nature and was married out of politics.... now, everything we know about Rhaegar suggest that he is far from a cheater... a statement you say you agree with...so , how come you think he had a paramour in his wife's companion, Ashara Dayne? and how is that not cheating? the dornish are ok with sex out of wedlock and a lot else. but having lovers other than one's spouse is not something we are sure of among the dornish...

@Julia H. is right. Lyanna's problem with Robert goes further than a one time romance out of wedlock , a paramour or one single bastard. not to mention, comparing Rhaegar and Robert in regards of affairs is a bit problematic. the issue with R+L theory is not Lyanna's character in my view, rather it's Rhaegar's alongside the three kingsgaurds. Rhaegar's been painted as a pretty responsible guy who probably wouldn't follow his heart for months all while his country bleeds and his children -one of whom is prince that was promised- could be in danger from every corner including from grandpa king. some would suggest Rhaegar was trying to make the third head of the dragon and thus was doing what was the best for the realm during that time . but that would mean Lyanna either entered Rhaegar's plan to take up the role of lady baby maker willingly which doesn't fit her character or was deceived and seduced by an eager Rhaegar which doesn't fit the decent personality of him. and Rhaegar's "coming back from Dorne" -where his brother in law's territory is- doesn't make sense if he was with Lyanna. how could he be secretive and careful enough not to be seen in Dorne when he couldn't in Riverland where he supposedly abduct Lyanna? on the other hand , the three kingsgaurds seemed to be working for Rhaegar and Aerys , explaining why they felt they were doing their full duty to their king and prince. my guess is whatever they were doing was related to Rhaegar's journey. I think Rhaegar and his six companions were searching for something or doing something related to the prophecy... why else would the crown prince take only six companions with him and all confidants and close friends at that AND so soon after the birth of his promised prince? ... now whether every thing happened after was related to that or whether Lyanna's disappearance was related is questionable. as for Jon , I believe Lyanna is the mother and that will be the important part of Jon's parentage. but I can't quite say who might be the father. it might as well be Rhaegar , after all one single passionate night is more than enough to make baby Jon! not a prophetical scheme or an epic love that stupifies people! yet , if we don't rely on the show's plot , with the books' information other candidates for Jon's dad ( Mance , Aerys , Arthur ,even Ned and Brandon in the case Lyanna's not the mother) shouldn't be ruled out.

I always imagined Willas to be the marriage material one! M: Bloodraven B: Daemon T K: Eyron( who is this? do you mean Euron?)

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come on now! be fair... how should poor Doran have known Oberyn who was going to a WEDDING CERMONY ends up voluntarily dueling the Mountain?!!! and as for Quentyn...sigh... your absolutely right.. Doran did send the poor boy all alone into the Dragon's pit, though he never suggested taming actual dragons... you know... I think Doran's stupid move of sending Quentyn himself and without a sufficient number of companions might come from his misjudgment of his son's character on top of his too much caution... Quentyn was terrible in bringing Dany the marriage proposal. since he had only two knights with him there was no presentation of Dorne's power and since Q was awkward there was no way of some good seduction or persuasion... I think Doran looked at himself with Melario and Oberyan with his ladies and thought Quentyn would be as successful!!

truely

I suppose you should imagine all these characters in their adult stage in this game . so you could think Rhaenys lives to grow up and then all will be well marry part is easy.. marry Egg bang fAegon kill the Conqueror latest Tyrell boys: Loras Garlan Willas

she probably "kinda forgets" who is in her list

why Martells?

yeah I agree, but actually I'm not even sure if there's anything to forgive. Ami didn't pick up a knife at the Red Wedding killing people nor made an alliance with the Lannisters . even her father wasn't one of the orchestrators of the Red Wedding. poor Ami's only sinful act was being a bit horny and sleeping with some knights which is of course not acceptable in Westeros but it's perfectly fine in 21st century mindset.

M: Brienne B: Asha K: Dacey (honestly because I don't remember this one) Daerons: Daeron the Young Dragon, Daeron the Good , Daeron the Daring

that was meant to be sarcasm. of course a person who's called GATEHOUSE AMI isn't going to be respected. (I am seriously starting to think my english is terrible ) but Ami ( if she doesn't have brothers) is her mother's heir who herself is the oldest Darry sister left and therefore legitimate Lady Darry. so Ami could end up inheriting Darry lands.

Ami gatehouse Frey could change her name to her mother's and be lady Darry and rules Riverrun wisely

Tommen and Myrcella still have Baratheon name so they slipped my mind...... but doesn't matter since unfortunately we know they'll die before Cersei

no let's not... yeah Targs are almost done ( to 1, 2 , 3 or even more considering all the hidden Targaryen Theories!) and it seems by the end of the story they'll be completely gone:( yet Martells seem more tragic...sigh...and I personally have a soft spot for Darrys and Whents. the only family I wish get a tragic ending as in the line dies completely are the Lannisters

well I did write its summary. I'll write something more appropriate later if you like. honestly I'm not in the mood just now.

his whole story is that he cannot not be part of his family bastard or nephew or whatever...after all he didn't grow from the ground like a bush! (I wish this sentence is as compelling as it is in persian!) the boy who didn't know he'll be left alone to rule so soon and had to wear the Lord face way too early, who had to grow up too fast to go to war in order to save his father and sisters , lost his castle and his younger brothers to a close brother-like friend , was betrayed by his own mother and lost his best leverage , finally found solace in the arms of a woman in an opposing castle just to lose his life and his whole army by a bannerman and an ally's betrayal. you are right indeed. he is not that tragic! no the tragedy itself is not funny at all.

well duh! in fact all the Stark siblings' lives are tragic stories including the ones you missed out here( Robb , Jon and Rickon) and the generation before( Ned, Benjen , Lyanna and Brandon)