EggBlue

2 hours ago, Prince Rhaegar Targareyen said:

I do think some of it is based in truth but I think some of it is exaggerated or misapplied to Maegor.

I mean, the guy killed 2 of his nephews, raped his niece and two other ladies in a "marriage", and killed 2 of his wives.

10 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

But… if Dance is your fave, doesn’t that mean it ranks #1? So how could it rank higher?  

lol! I mean in general. not just in the series

1 hour ago, King Jaehaerys II said:

What do you guys think ? Is Aegon a Targaryen or a Blackfyre ?

I think he's a Targaryen.

mind you, there are hints that he may be a Blackfyre . but recently, I've realized Blackfyre "clue"s aren't more than Dance , Dunk and Egg , Baelor the Blessed or the Young Dragon's namedrops. I think he is the mummer's dragon and the mummer is Vary. 

then there's the fact that I like him to be the real deal! and that's because if Varys turns out to be a Blackfyre with a long-term plan, it'll ruin the character of Varys for me. also, there's the possibility of Dany/Aegon conflict, and I think it's about time Dany's not in the righteous place or at least faces a dilemma. frankly, there won't be much of a dilemma for her if it's a "fake" dragon she is fighting. 

another argument is that Aegon has no royal background at all. a theory I rather like. but as much as some people seem to think being Valyrian means everyone's alike, it is not! people of the same heritage can have some similar features such as bone structure or hair color, but that does not mean there aren't distinguishing features in different families. Aegon looks enough like Rhaegar (and surely, to some extent Elia) for Jon Con , who knew them both.

1 hour ago, King Jaehaerys II said:

And finally are you rooting for him ?

yes!

I don't think he'll survive the series, but I kinda hope he at least leaves behind offspring and wins the throne through them.

now that I've written so much , I might as well say why I root for him ! well, after Dance I wasn't so sure because of Tyrion's comment and the cyvasse match. but later, I re-read AGOT, where Jon pulls the same thing on Tyrion when he is mad, and then YG's rationale for naming Duck his kingsgaurd in Winds gladdens my peasant heart!

Dance is my favorite followed closely by Storm. I would have liked Dance even more if it didn't feel unfinished. it's a great read chapter by chapter. 

1. Daeron II

2. Aegon I

3. Aegon III

4. Aegon V

5. Maekar

6. Jaeherys I (I think he's overrated! and I think he is responsible for the Dance)

7. Viserys II ( his problem was that he became king, destroyed his mother's legacy and put Aegon first in line! all the while he could groom either Daena or Elaena(if the former's bastard was such a big deal) to be a great queen)

8. Aerys I

9. Rhaenyra (yes, I'm counting her . for all her faults , she was the kind of queen who listened to her advisors. if she didn't have to deal with her brother, she would have made a fine enough queen)

10. Viserys I

11. Daeron I

12. Baelor

13. Jaeherys II

14. Aenys

15. Aerys II (he had some good 20 yrs)

16. Maegor (the guy raped his own niece and killed his nephews . but you gotta give him a point for destroying faith militant!)

17. Aegon IV 

18. Aegon II

1 hour ago, Ser Arthurs Dawn said:

Yronwoods maybe? They have mines! I almost picked House Dayne, and tbh I kind of wish I had. I chose money and trade over a beautifully ancient historical house *weeps*. They're one of the oldest houses in Westeros and carry an ancestral sword that was made from a literal star. Their coat of arms is beautiful, and I might be biased as lavender is my favorite color.

I searched and Starfall is basically in Torrentine's plain. geographically speaking, Daynes must have some of the richest lands in Dorne for agriculture. so, they've got the pretty castle, the rich lands , the history, the reputation and , unlike Yornwoods, they are friends of the Martells(who I like a lot!)! Soooo, obviously, after much thought and consideration, I should like to be born a Dayne

On 1/28/2023 at 11:14 AM, Aebram said:

We already had one of those with Pate the novice in the prologue to AFFC.  I wouldn't mind seeing more. It would be an interesting twist if some barefoot orphan from Flea Bottom turned out to be Azor Ahai reborn.

it would have . unfortunately, this story isn't like that . it's about blood magic and genetic abilities and restoring some lord in their rightful place (Winterfell) . 

actually, there is more than one common folk POV in the books. the guy in AGOT prologue, Melisandre, Areo Hottah, and Davos are all commoners. but they can never be more than sidekicks or focus on their backgrounds and goals because the story is mostly about high lords . 

46 minutes ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

Mance is slightly older than Ned.  He could have been at the tournament.  

are you sure? Jon thought he was a young man when he had seen him in Winterfell and children usually don't count their parents as young.

I don't know what GRRM is planning about the house with the Red Door and its Lemon Tree. And I certainly do not know how significant it'll be with regards to Bravos's weather. But it is doubtful that the Lemon Tree is a leftover of the first draft. because both a good chunk of Lemon Tree's memories and Bravos's lack of tree are in the same book: Feast/Dance. 

I do not believe in GRAND CONSPIRACY THEORIES of Dany changeling , R+L=D, and so on.  GRRM is pretty good at writing dreams, memories, thoughts, and how the brain works them together. as far as I'm concerned, childhood memories can be mixed together when you remember them later, especially for a child with an unstable life who's been constantly traveling. it is more than possible that the Red Door and ser Willem were in Bravos and the Lemon Tree and the Room with the Window were in Tyrosh. as for why Tyrosh might have had a lasting effect in her memories or why her accent is Tyroshi, well, we do not know how long she's spent in each of the free cities. but we do know that Doran and Archon had an agreement that Viserys, Daenerys, and Arianne stay in Tyrosh. so. it's not far-fetched to think Tyrosh had been one of the most stable places for Targlings, thanks to Doran. though it appears that for whatever reason, that agreement fell apart, and Targlings were sent to the streets. 

Hightower seems quite popular, ha?! well, I'm a woman and Hightowers seem religious! that doesn't end well! also, I hate the cold! so, somewhere in Dorne I guess. maybe Dayne? which dronish house is the richest?

first of all, I think Mance might be younger than Lyanna, and she was 14 in Harrenhal. However, I don't deny the possibility of Mance being Jon's father until the books come out. Like always, I believe Jon Snow's father doesn't matter unless he gets something in his arc out of it. up until now, it's only his Stark side that matters.

as for the music, with hindsight thanks to ADWD, Lyanna crying over Rhaegar's song isn't all that special. it only shows how good of a musician Rhaegar is that even people like Lyanna (and Cersei) weep over his songs. 

I'm ranking by wealth, military and political influence and between every house that's not one of the big 6 :

1. Hightower 

2.Velaryon

3.Redwyne

4.Yornwood

5.Mandely

I'm gonna talk about the current story, not the historical members. 

Stark: Ned . what can I say ? the guy is my Westerosi moral compass! though I like Robb, Sansa, and Bran in that order as well. 

Lannister: Jaimie . to be clear, despite his arc, I still don't count him as one of the protagonists. but I enjoy his chapters very much.  

Targaryen : I must say Rhaegar. despite all of his flaws, I am always curious to know more about this mysterious character, his motives, his personality, plans, etc. 

Martell: Oberyn. although, with the little we know about Elia, I think she potentially must have been a very interesting character. 

Baratheon: I guess Shireen. I just want her to survive. B brothers can go to hell for all I care.

Tully: Cat. I liked her since the moment she took the dagger with her bare hands. she's got flaws, but that move was badass!

Greyjoy : none

Arryn : none

Tyrell: Garlan because he is so Galant

I also like Jon Snow, and I don't care which house he fits into.

14 hours ago, Prince Rhaegar Targareyen said:

 And Tywin tragically lost his wife, the only person he probably truly loved. And again, he is still a terrible human being.

You know, Tywin's love for his wife is overrated. For one, the two people telling us he loved her are Cersei and Pycile, both of whom like to idolize Tywin. but looking at his actions, Tywin didn't seem to love his wife: firstly, he made a tunnel from the tower of the hand to a brothel. Then, after his wife died, his first act was to disregard her wishes about their children's future and disrespect her oldest friend. And through his treatment of Tyrion , he insulted his wife's memory and virtue by believing that because Tyrion is a little imp, he must be a bastard. 

absolutely not . 

Blackfyre rebellions ended in his reign but the praise for ending Blackfyre line goes to Maelys himself. if I recall correctly, he killed his cousin and the rest of the family before styling himself king. and crushing the ninepenny kings wasn't more difficult than any other Blackfyre rebellion . probably even easier, as it is likely that the Crown had foreign alliances . 

then , there's the issue of the Tarbeck-Rein rebellion. he was far too lenient with Tywin imo . yes Tywin was collecting debt and he was crushing his enemies but he went beyond the king's justice and should have been punished for it . 

lastly , let's not forget the heir he groomed was Aerys and that he forced his own children into a marriage that was far from ideal for either of them. 

9 hours ago, KingStoneheart said:

But preferably, I would not live anywhere near a city. I want a peaceful castle surrounded by loyal guards and to stay well out of the wars.

are we assuming we're rich? 

9 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

except maybe the Eyrie but I don’t like stairs or the idea of being trapped up there; it’s so impregnable you can’t get out either depending on conditions. 

and don't forget the mountain clans ... 

Pentos. 

It's not damp like Bravos. It's not primitive like Westeros . I won't end up a slave if I turn in the wrong ally.

though, it might be chilly up there ... so, on second thoughts , Shadow city? it's got good food... 

2 minutes ago, King Robb of Winterfell said:

Honestly, I think Tyrion or Tywin would’ve had Joff killed eventually.

I don't disagree. especially Tywin. he had experienced one Aerys already! 

He's got a few real crimes, in my opinion ... as terrible as his thoughts regarding the innkeeper's death, lusting over 12 yr old Sansa, and raping his own sister are, he does not act on them.

murdering Shae, murdering the singer, feeding his corpse to the poor, and raping the Sunset girl are his actual crimes. 

oh , and killing Tywin? I consider that a service to humanity. 

I agree about Andrew but I also felt sorry for Rhaena Targaryen . she had terrible luck with parents , siblings , uncle , great aunt and lovers ! 

6 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

She's stuck between a rock and a hard place the whole time. If she refuses Tyrion, she's in trouble. If she refuses Tywin, she's in trouble. I think Tyrion either didn't understand the duress she was under, didn't care, or expected her to die/put herself in harm's way for him.

Tyrion is not stupid . he didn't care. if there's one thing the Lannister siblings have in common, they don't try to put themselves in other people's shoes. especially if they are lowborn. 

I think Tywin is just as villainous as Euron or Aerys. Possibly more so, because he can fit himself into society and pretend he is not the misogynistic monstrous fuck that he is. 

as for the question in the OP because :

1. Targaryen villains are all historical members and for every villainous Targ in history, there are two good ones. 

2. Greyjoys are not as important as Lannisters in the story, so people don't pay that much attention to them. otherwise, characters like Ramsay, Roose, or Euron are far worse than the Lannister siblings.

3 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

I know others disagree, but I really can't see anything in the main series, or in F&B either, which would indicate Aegon knew of this prophecy. Yes, there are some unsolved mysteries, but I don't think the prophecy is one of the answers, because to my mind Aegon and some other Targaryens knowing about the Others conflicts with what we actually read about them doing, which is killing Dornish peasants, huge dynastic struggles, and most importantly, the Watch loses >90% of its men under the Targaryens who are supposedly concerned about the Others. If it is added in the next book I will feel like it was a retroactive change and I don't think it would be great writing.

seems to me the prophecy is considered far too straightforward in the fandom. I don't think there's any indication that the Targs had connected their prophecy with the Northern threat from the beginning. if anything the only thing we get from the Targs is the three-headed dragon that eventually becomes their sigil. something that stayed the case up until Rhaegar , Aemon and their three heads of the dragon. it seems somewhere along the way Aemon had seen the three-headed dragon , prince that was promised and battle for the dawn connected, but he was a maester at the wall . 

in short (!), I agree that there is nothing to suggest Aegon knew about the Others specifically. but I don't think Martin will include it in its full popular form in the next book .the man loves his mysteries! 

42 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

I have no idea how we as readers are supposed to perceive Doran. For the most part, he comes across as incompetent, but other characters in the story and GRRM himself have described him as someone who plays to win. I know that this has been repeatedly discussed in the fandom, but I have not seen a consensus being reached.

There is no reason to believe he's been an incompetent ruler in Dorne. it seems to me Doran had not granted Jon Areyn an agreement all that easily and it had been as much of a fair compromise as the Dornish people could hope for. unlike Storm lands or Riverlands (and probably Reach) , there is absolutely no Dornish lands or Dornish rights taken away . and despite Robert/Cersei marriage , at least in the beginning, Robert did not grant Tywin all that he desired... no chain of the Hand , no council seat, and no releasing his golden boy from kingsgaurd vows . sure , Lannisters took power year by year , but that's on Robert and Jon. 

granted, though, Doran is as much a bad father as Ned in preparing his children for their future; which speaks volumes considering, unlike Ned, he is not naive. and he is even worse at planning revenge. however, in the last case, one has to ask which one is more important for a ruler to do .. taking revenge or ensuring peace for his people ? !

said that , I do think that GRRM has somewhat dropped the ball with the Dornish . they are as many as Starks but they are introduced to the story far too late . I do not see their characters as stupid or as unrealistic, but they have to be fleshed out in a small number of pages when all the other characters(namely Starks) have passed from their "stupidity" phase and have depth . perhaps, it would have been better if GRRM had cut some characters or reduced their roles to namedrops. in the first Aereo chapter for instance , we see Doran , Arianne , Areo himself and three sand snakes all in the same time ! in that chapter Hottah has to tell us who he is , who Doran is , what's the sand snakes backstory and so on , all of which fall short.... imagine if that chapter was focused on Arianne , Doran, and one Sand Snake representing the rest , with no Areo Hottah . 

6 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Anne Boleyn was accused with incest IIRC so spending too much time with your brother must’ve been suspicious behaviour in medieval times.

very different situation! it wasn't about the amount of time the Boleyns spent together, it was about how badly Henry wanted to get rid of them in a way that no one protested and guess what? people are disgusted by incestual infidelity! Boelyns also didn't bring anything to the table for Henry VIII and he didn't like them anymore. so, they were basically under a microscope the way Jaimie and Cersei never were. on the other hand , Robert liked and trusted Jaimie and he never had the option of setting aside the daughter of one of his greatest allies.