EggBlue

On 1/23/2023 at 9:24 PM, Corvo the Crow said:

Cersei as a medieval highborn lady,  really should have ladies-in-waiting constantly orbiting(She is the sun ) her and as queen, even more so than any other ladies. Ladies who were chosen by the king himself or at least by Cersei herself but approved, and preferrably from among relatives. Elia had Ashara, among others, Rhaella had many that she sent away because of the Aerys, but Cersei has no one and what's even more strange is that we know she had companions as the daughter of the Tywin goldshitting Lannister. With her ladies-in-wait constantly around her, she really should've struggled to even get one bastard out of Jaime, let alone three but somehow she does.

For comparison, sweet, innocent lady Margaery that has her name slandered has many companions that are constantly around her, foremost being her grandmother, so really it shouldn't have been so easy to besmirch her honor.

I mean, Jaimie was both a kingsgaurd AND her brother. who could possibly think that the queen might have an affair with her celibate twin brother?!!! who would want to offend the Lannisters by denying the queen's brother of a private audience?!!! besides, most likely , Robert had liked Cersei spending time with her brother. it's evident that he trusted Jaimie, even liked him (unlike in the show) . early in their marriage, Robert was clearly trying to make her happy or find common ground by inviting her to hunt and stuff. instead, she made a habit of spending time with her brother and letting Robert have his own fun in the hunt ; and when he came back she would have been in a better mood that when he left ! heck , Robert might have encouraged it even . which means over the years the fact that the queen spends alone time with her chaste twin a routine at court.. 

2 hours ago, Raven Princling said:

Tywin's influence and Cersei's acting, I assume.

As for whether she killed Melara or not, it is heavily implied that she did kill her or, at the very least, not help her. It is not directly spelled out, but I assume we will have more conclusive evidence in the future books. It is possible she did not directly kill Melara (or it was an accident), of course, but the hints are suggesting otherwise. The only thing I do not understand about this though: why would Cersei kill Melara and deliberately fulfil the prophecy she wanted to believe was fake? I know the whole thing is supposed to be self-fulfilling (the more Cersei tries to avoid it, the more it comes true), but, as dumb as this is about to sound, I think she would wait at least some time before doing anything. To make sure the prophecy is not fulfilled and Melara lives that night. Unless the girls had a fight or argument that escalated, of course.

Cersei believes if they don't talk about the prophecy it won't come true .

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She could still hear Melara Hetherspoon insisting that if they never spoke about the prophecies, they would not come true. She was not so silent in the well, though. She screamed and shouted. 

so , she shuts Melara up , but she doesn't shut up as she should . Cersei is also stupid and extremely self-centered . it wouldn't be out of character if in an effort to avoid her own prophecy , she totally forgets about Melara's and make it come true.

Cersei's story in the Feast is about how she creates her own problems. it's evident in her problems with the High Sparrow , Margery and Aurone Waters . the prophecy seems to be just another manifestation of this theme in another (spicier) form. funny thing both her little brothers are demons of her own creation too . one was imitating fools to get a laugh from her as children and the other had been her foolish golden boy for years . yet , one is planning to rape and kill her , the other ignores her pleas. and same goes for every other possible valnquers ; be it Aegon , Jon , Tommen , .... 

for those who think Cersei is innocent in Melara's death : people, just look at the pattern. Cersei does not think straight of killing Melara . but Cersei's good at being in denial. her thoughts about Sansa's betrayal and Margery's supposed treason in Blue Bard's fate show clearly that she likes to believe her own lies . the woman genuinely starts believing Margery's infidelity after she fabricates Margery's high treason on her own! that doesn't show she was born evil , but it certainly shows that she had an evil strike at that age. 

why doesn't anyone care about Arryns of Gultown ?

@sweetsunray say , sweet Robin , Harry the Heir and half of Vale's nobles die in the tourney . if the rest , including Royce, have the option between the clansman Timmet who might be an Arryn (and through rape at that) and Gultown Arryns , what makes you think they'll choose Timmet ? ! merchants are easier to deal with, and closer to the noble class than clansmen who are seen as savages and Vale's enemies rather than Vale's people. 

my impression (from Cersei's memories on the Rock , Tyrion's memories and opinion about slaves and Casterly Rock) is that Tywin had a "quiet people, quiet land" policy in the Rock. I mean , Cersei could sell Robert's mistress and children to slavery and no one, not even Robert, said anything. I know Robert is not a model dad , but the fact that Tywin had such a grip on the West and its people that half-royal children could be sold by his daughter says something! 

On 1/21/2023 at 4:30 PM, Craving Peaches said:

I would like it if Harry turned out to actually be a nice man who cared for Sansa and respected her. And that the prior rudeness was just him having a bad day. Sansa deserves someone who is nice and can make her feel happy. Then they can bring down Littlefinger's scheming and live happily ever after. There has been too much 'subverting expectations' just to make everyone miserable.

Harry is not that person . as mentioned above, Harry is basically a Robert 2.0 . even if he does fall for the Stark lady, he'd likely be more than willing to detour in brothels on his way heading towards her. 

if it were up to me , at the end of the series Sansa would end up with someone like Ned Dayne , beginning a new chapter in life after she has come back to Winterfell, reunited with her siblings, and done her part in Stark policy plans. somewhat like Elaena Targaryen .  but as it is up to George , probably the best Sansa can hope for is to have the Hound as her lover . it won't be all that bad , knowing Sandor might just turn out to be a perfect not-knight who has been in rage rehab in the Quiet Isle ! but it's still got a too toxic base for my liking .

Tywin Lannister , Gregor Clegane , Kevan to a certain extent , Pycelle , Qybern , Roose Bolton , Cersei 

2 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

Rondo, I really missed you. Please don't go away again. I don't want to see Rosetta Stone's or Darth Sideous' or Finley McLeod's or Damsel in Distress' or James West's or The Lord of the Crossing's or James Fenimore Cooper XXII's or anyone else's comments on how bad the Starks are anymore. Only yours.

Peaches! I think you came on too strong. poor Rondo left... 

I doubt it.

the first two were respectively the result of his survival instincts and his innocent wishes to walk again. but the third abomination... Bran is 8-9 and far from puberty. he likely won't hit puberty at all with the pacing of the books. and even if he does , I can't see his boyhood desires translating into wolf mating or wolf-human rape (if that's what you're implying ) in any way. 

11 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

I think his PR or whomever in America can't be as good as the British ones because there's some stuff in the book that I reckon he would have been told not to publish if he was still here. Like the Taliban comments.

what was his Taliban comments ?

Renly was a big boy . he made his own decisions. besides, I got the impression that Renly convinced the Tyrells to support him, not the other way around.

9 minutes ago, Adelstein said:

The age gap isn't that great. At the time of their elopement (if such it was) Lyanna was sixteen(ish) and Rhaegar was about 23. While that's still a bit of a gap, it's much closer to being age-appropriate than it might be, and Lyanna was by IC standards (and modern RL standards in most countries) old enough to know what she was doing, rather than a child incapable of consent.

But yeah, the rest of your point stands.

well , she was 14ish when they first met and their love story supposedly began . however , there are two confusing points here imo. firstly, in book 1, from what Cersei says , it'slike Lyanna was 16 when she ran off, rather 16 when she died a year later . which could frankly be just George's lack of sense of timing! then , I personally don't know how to see this world's attitude towards maturity age!on one hand, Sansa at 12-13 is acting and is treated as if she is at least 16. and on the other 14yr old Jeyne Pool is a girl in Theon's mind rather than a grown woman. it is worth noting that the age gap between Theon and Jeyne is smaller than that between Rhaegar and Lyanna.

Joffrey , Vargo Hoat , some Freys , Tywin Lannsiters (especially the stinking part) , Aerys , the three bloody mummers Brienne killed , Biter and his friend , Raff the sweetling , the slavers Dany burned , Janos Slynt 

3 minutes ago, Alex13 said:

I think this is how you end up with kings being deposed and decapitated, at the end of rebellions

naah . they only end up like that if they burn high-profile people alive in public.

I don't get it ...

are you suggesting "Dareon" may come back, knowing his boots remember? 

1 hour ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Maesters will be on Jon’s side. Dragons are too dangerous to let live, Jon will promise to destroy them and get support.

from F&B and the world book we know that maesters aren't a fan of Northmen either , calling them savages , unwashed and such.  if it's up to maesters , they poison both dragons and be done with it . 

somewhere like Summerhall belongs to the Crown from the get go . meaning that Summerhall does not pay taxes to the lord paramount and is not considered a bannerman anyway . so if the King were to establish a new branch of house Targaryen there, the princely family would be directly under the Crown . meaning that neither the lord Paramount nor the royal family would be affected . it would be more difficult with vacant lands or properties earned by marriage (for example how Daemon's family with Rhea Royce would have been) . if the Crown did not want to interfere with RL's governance , then the new royal cadet branch would be bannermen to the Lord paramount which might not be an ideal situation and the King would have to negotiate with lord paramount or be ready to make him pissed by taking away a part of his income . in a war though , this kind of thing would be a LOT easier . so if AegonVI/DaenerysI come back to Westeros , they can easily grant lands and castles to the remaining family member to create a new line . they could name them wardens or lord/lady paramount and no one would bat an eye . 

the bottom line is , the King can do whatever he wants !

10 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

What would happen when Daenerys eventually learns that Jon is his precious brother Rhaegar the Rapist's son? 

I think it would be something along these lines

 

 

- It's over Danykin, I have the high claim

+You underestimate my powa(dragonz)

- Don't try it

+ Draca... *Valyrian steel slashing sounds*

- You were the chosen one, it was said you will destroy the White Walkers not join them. Save humanity not leave it in darkness

+ I hate yaah

- You were my aunt Danykin, I loved you.

 

Of course it is preceeded by five minutes of Jon, greatest swordsman to have ever walked the snowy north cutting through Dany's minions while being on constant retreat throughout the mazes of Maegor's keep because he don't wanna be no kinslayer.

 

 "come on! I just got rid of a nephew ... at least he looked the part! what does this Northerner wildling have to recommend him?"

.

..

not that a better claim actually matters when someone has dragons, but who's to say Jon has a better claim?

assuming RLJ, assuming Rhaegar and Lyanna were married, assuming Jon can prove those two facts, his claim can still be disputed. first, you've got to convince everyone that the prince's second marriage is indeed valid which could be a headache. one party was married, and the other was committed to a betrothal contract. then, you've got to check if the former heir's children come before the former king's children, something that had been disputed over before. and finally, you've got to prove that Jon's Night's Watch vows are over and done with and that is by assuming Jon will actually die in the next book! 

the problem is not that the sword doesn't have a hilt , it's that it shouldn't be a sword in the first place and if it is you've gotta use it with open eyes.

the way I see it , the magic in itself is not alien to this world ,rather its exploitation by humans is ; which we had seen with Valyria for example.  magic is a disrupter to the system that this world functions in. however , all we see of this system throughout the story is corruption and disfunction . maesters try to craft a scholarly world without magic , but the result is their ignorance of a huge element of this world which is somewhat equivalent of the disregard and fear of medieval era for new scientific discoveries. so , by the end of the story , I don't expect the death of the Old Gods or the death of magic . I'm expecting something like freeing these forces .lol . meaning dragons and the Others will go back to their natural habitat

1 hour ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Or… it could be that Starks are against marrying their own sisters/brothers. I think they actually want Jon to marry Dany but know he won’t marry her because a) she’s his aunt and b) she’s stark raving mad. So they hate Jon. Add the JonSa foreshadowings and possibility of that marriage happening since they are cousins and arises Sansa hate also. These two and a few other things combined result in a hate of Starks in general.

I've gotta say, for someone so fiercely against incest, you are awfully pro step-siblings marriage.

honestly, Sansa should end up with someone like Ned Dayne, you know?  someone sane (unlike Joffrey), age-appropriate (unlike Tyrion), non-pervert (unlike LF), nontoxic (unlike Hound), nonrelated (unlike Jon), and with a similar worldview (unlike Harry). 

1 hour ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Beauty and attractiveness aren’t the same though, nor is love. I had plenty of friends that I found as at least somewhat beautiful but weren’t in the least bit attracted to any of them, neither did I have any love for any of them beyond friendship. On the other hand I am myself not a very handsome guy yet found to be quite attractive, and even told this to my face many times. Girls who wouldn’t even respond to advances of guys far more handsome than me would chase after me and in a few instances in the literal sense.

Ashara and Catelyn may not have been attractive to all but they are both beautiful women, Ashara possibly more so than Cat.

naah, you're right. aesthetic beauty is not necessarily subjective. of course, its rules differ quite a bit for different cultures and time periods. but all we have to measure these characters' beauties and compare them is other characters' subjective views, all of whom have biased opinions and different tastes. so we cannot know if the women described in the books are actually beautiful or if other attractions such as emotional response have influenced our POV characters' judgment. 

p.s. they literally chased you ?!

Tommen has the lowest kill number, but he's been on the throne for like 5 minutes and he's not even ruling. then, technically, Viserys and Renly have a low kill bar, but they never ruled! 

 Doran Martell has a pretty low kill bar and in all seriousness, he's the best ruler of the series with genuine care for his people. (Lysa Arryn also saved the Vale from war but the point is her decision wasn't out of care for her people)

too much time passes and people decide they hate the protagonists because they are bored 

14 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

I can't take Targaryen 'looks' seriously because they just sound like anime characters. And even if they did look nice their attitude is a complete turn off. Now, the Baratheons on the other hand...

and we are talking about Renly Baratehon I presume? 

14 hours ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

In any case, it is curious that Ashara was admired for her purple eyes when Westeros has had several generations of Targaryen rulers, who also had purple eyes.

most likely the shape of her eyes and her gaze was beautiful. 

come to think of it , Targaryens are never described as the most beautiful people or the most beautiful Valyrians . in fact , in Dance era , Laena nd Laenor Velaryons are described as unbelievably beautiful and they are mixed with Baratheons and Velaryons . then in Blackfyre era Shiera Seastar who is not your typical Valyrian looking woman is supposed to be super hot . and then there's Ashara and finally, Arianne Martell who seems to be George's fantacy. sure , Targs are good looking but they're also rich and powerful which attributes to "beauty" if you ask me! 

1 minute ago, Corvo the Crow said:

That, was the kind of thing some esteemed members of our community root for.

funnily enough, those esteemed members root for this kinda thing in the blondies of the story and condemn it with dark-haired Northeners