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Oana_Mika

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  1. Althogh I don't agree with your statements (Daenerys being an imperialist,having a cult of personality,imposing foreign customs) I want to apologise for that comment.I let the bitter taste that the show and the fandom in general (I lurked perviously through this site as well as in other places and I also had another account) to colour the way I interpreted your response.
  2. imperialism /ɪmˈpɪərɪəlɪz(ə)m/ noun noun: imperialism a policy of extending a country's power and influence through colonization, use of military force, or other means. "the struggle against imperialism" historical rule by an emperor. "in Russia, imperialism had developed alongside a semi-feudal agrarian structure" Daenerys is neither an emperor,nor has an empire and she isn't exploiting Essos' resources to found her campaign.She is just protecting those who can't protect themselves.That's why she stayed to rule Meereen.To ensure the freedom of those she freed and to create a new economic structure not based on slavery. As I said : the fandom sees this as an imperialist move,but they will also crucify her for "abandoning" Essos even though we don't know yet in what manner.
  3. I beg to differ : "what makes her an imperialist. We overlook it because she’s freeing slaves, but the idea that someone is able to invade a place they’ve never been unprovoked, kill their leaders and install themselves as the head of state is textbook imperialism. ", "I expect that Dany’s time in Meereen will end the same way that most regime-change missions end in the Middle East," ---> implied US/Iraq/Afganistan parallel.
  4. From where do you get this idea that she wants to whipe out the Tully, Arryn, Lannister, and Stark houses?
  5. The only people she wanted revenge from are Robert,Tywin,Jaime and Ned and of all those,only Jaime remains alive (at least for now).
  6. Of course she isn't native to every place in the vast continent of Essos.She grew there,not been born there and yes,she is seen as Westerosi and foreigner in Slaver's Bay by the masters despite her valyrian ancestry but that does not mean it's immoral for her to free slaves. GRRM : “My own heroes are the dreamers, those men and women who tried to make the world a better place than when they found it, whether in small ways or great ones. Some succeeded, some failed, most had mixed results… but it is the effort that’s heroic, as I see it. Win or lose, I admire those who fight the good fight.” Unless you are a foreigner.Then you can't do anything to make the world a better place because you are imposing different values onto foreign peope I guess.
  7. I also have been in fandom for some time and yes,I've seen many implying that Dany being "foreign" to Essos and Westeros basically doesn't give her the "morality" to end slavery (bc she "is imposing foreign customs on essosi" ---> "I expect that Dany’s time in Meereen will end the same way that most regime-change missions end in the Middle East, with her accepting that she can’t force a foreign people to change their ways and leaving" + "The reason why people take issue with Dany’s foreignness is because that’s part of what makes her an imperialist. We overlook it because she’s freeing slaves, but the idea that someone is able to invade a place they’ve never been unprovoked, kill their leaders and install themselves as the head of state is textbook imperialism" and I've seen many making this false equivalecy of US in Iraq/Afganistan thogh Martin refuted the allegory and imperialism implies having an actuall Empire to fund with the resources of the place you take and Dany literally grew in Essos) and neither the right to retake the throne in the name of her family (bc she was raised in Essos)[email protected] Bard of Banefort might have used the word "horde" to say "a large number of people",but she definitely implied Dany's followers are brainwashed : "she has a cult of personality" (and we know the cult of personality is tied most with fascism,an anachronic term to use in ASoIaF and whoever read Daenerys' chapters in a non biased manner can see she is not a tyrant).And I've also seen people discussing her conquest for the throne (her invasion) in a more negative way than other struggles for said throne bc she comes with dothrakis and unsullied and imagining them wreaking havoc in Westeros (as if it wasn't already wrecked).
  8. I agree that Martin did not flesh out the essosi characters as much as the wildlings but still he showed us that they are not just brainwashed people,who have no iniciative.We see the slaves inside those cities helping with Dany's attack in Yunkai and taking Meereen.Also,the Unsullied showting "Dracarys" in Astapor and then chosing their leader,longing for human affection (going to brothels to be held) or just going drinking.We can see them ploting revolts,wanting Dany to help them and so on.They don't just follow Dany because of her carisma.Her only speech is before entering the pyre,liberating those who remaind after Drogo's khalassar left them.Plus,before the birth of the dragons,they were reluctant to follow her and the freedmen followed her bc well,she freed them.They thought they were better with her and she gives her best to protect them.
  9. A cult of personality, or a cult of the leader,is the result of an effort which is made to create an idealized and heroic image of a leader by a government, often through unquestioning flattery and praise.. Historically, it has developed through techniques of mass media, propaganda, the big lie, fake news, spectacle, the arts, patriotism, and government-organized demonstrations and rallies. A cult of personality is similar to apotheosis, except that it is established by modern social engineering techniques, usually by the state or the party in one-party states and dominant-party states. I must have missed the part where Daenerys doesn't like to be quoestioned,that she only wants to hear flattery and praise and her spreading propaganda.
  10. I never implied the westerosi are not capable of individual thinking.I used the quotes for barbarian horde not as quoting you.That was my mistake.It was me saying that was the impresison your comment left me.You could have simply said that Daenerys has a large number of followers,whom she leads.But insead you phrase it as she having a mass of people whom she controls,meaning those who follow her are incapable to make their own decision,that they are brainwashed.Also,let's not pretend that in the fandom,the fact that she and her followers are foreigners is not used in a negative way.
  11. I know that in the books the wildlings are also considered savages.I ment that the fans refer to them only as "wildlings" not "barbaric" or "savages" or incapable of individual thinking,as the person who I was discussing thinks of the ones that follow Daenerys.
  12. And I know that in the books,the term is used to define a vast group of people but I've usually seen people using it to emphasize how uncivilised and savage and uncapable of thinking are those who follow Daenerys.
  13. I don't remember in the books the wildlings being referd to as "hordes".I know in the books they are not apreciated by westerosi but I have never seen fans refering to them as such,or "barbaric" (as they also do with the people who follow Dany),only just wildlings.
  14. Interesting how the term "horde" is only applied to the barbaric dothrakis (by fans and in the books too as a pejorative). Oh, I also forgot to add FOREIGNER.
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