Khloey

How could he ever be ruined as long as his brother lives ? He's a Targaryen prince. Everytime he was exiled, he managed to get back into his brother's good graces. They could have taken the risk of killing Daemon before Visery's death, but it's also a big gamble to take. You gotta be sure your target will effectively get killed, otherwise you face his vengeance. And Viserys could have punished them if he ever found out. Or Rhaenyra herself. I doubt she would have left the murder of her husband go unpunished. In the end, taking a shot at Daemon after the King's death and after splitting the realm's loyalties in half was the better option.

I never said Doran was a genius, but still, in the show, he's really weak and dumb.. I disagree about Sansa, it does not go that way in the books at all.

Damn, I hated Show Sansa.. she just becomes a cold arrogant entitled bi***. Kind of like Cersei. She didn't strike me as smarter at all. But then all the smarts characters on the show became really dumb. First Littlefinger in season 4, then Varys and Tyrion, Doran, Olenna... to the point that "show viewers only" think Cersei is one of the smartest characters ever The only thing I liked better on the show were the Tywin/Arya scenes and Margaery. And Olenna was phenomenal in season 3 and 4. Oberyn was very well portrayed as well, better than his book counterpart. Hated what they did to smart characters in general, like I said before. Also hated what they did to Loras' character, (and Renly by extensions), turning them into effeminate guys, which just strikes me as homophobic. And I hated the fact that they've shown female developpment/empowerment (according to them) through rape (Dany, Cersei, Sansa). All 3 characters becoming somewhat the same once they come into power. The lack of subtility in general of the latter seasons really bugs me. I think GOT just became too popular for its own good.

Currently in my "antiquity period" ^^ I read Damalis by Marie Berthelet, it's a historical novel about a young thrace whose village is slaughtered, the novel follows his journey as a slave who ends up in a wealthy greek family. Read it in 2 days, I really liked it. I'm currently reading SPQR by Mary Beard and Bisexuality in the ancient world by Eva Cantarella. Both very good so far, very interesting.

I think most people underestimate what rape is and its consequences on the victim psychologically. To me, it's just as bad as murder. By making Aegon a rapist, the showrunners knew what they were doing, especially by showing the girl with Alicent afterwards. As others have said, I wish they had included at list one Aegon-Rhaenyra scene before the war. I also wished we'd had the conversation between Aegon and Criston Cole, it would have underlined his motives a bit better. That being said, I think the actor portraying him did a lot of good work with what he had.

AGREED ! Just discovered this show and "Becoming Elizabeth", such great shows combining superb acting and brilliant writing. Can't understand why those shows aren't more popular.. Especially the second one, the name Tudor always brings attention.

Favorites : Aemond (surprisingly so might I add, I hated him in the books, I think adding the fact that he was bullied as a kid made him a lot more sympathetic to me), Alicent, Otto, Lyonel Strong, Viserys, Helaena I'm very surprised about how much I like the Greens characters ^^ Least favorites : Daemon and Criston, I just want to punch their faces most of the time, Larys too, I wish Alicent would feed him to crocodiles (I had a dream about it). Oh God, and Jasper Wylde is insufferable (chop off his balls already). As is Rhaenys.

I agree completely. That people might think Alicent had sex with old and sick Jaeherys who confused her with his daughter is laughable. Regarding the female reaction to one of their child's death, I find odd that GRRM spends so much time on the mothers' reaction and not so much on the father's.. It's something recurrent in his books, how even dark characters like Cersei still finds redemptive qualities through motherhood. Though he's not the only author doing that, lots of them are doing it. Mrs Coulter is another example. Must be another trope ^^

Sorry I meant lady Caswell, not lady Fell

Alys River, Addam&Alyn, Nettles, Jeyne Arryn, Daeron, the Shepard, Lady Fell Not excited about Cregan, but that's only because I can't stand the character. Dragons : Sunfyre (we barely got a glimpse of him), the Cannibal, Tessarion

At the dinner scene, she tells Lucerys that he'll be great as lord of the tides. But I think that's it..

Re : Blood & Cheese Doesn't Blood tries to go back with Jaehearys's head to get Daemon's reward ? I think you @Lord Varys make very good points, but in the end, I really think Daemon will contact Mysaria and ask her to do his dirty deed. I like your argument about Mysaria wanting to show that even her can get to royal children as a revenge for what Larys did. Daemon and Mysaria might have a scene together in season 2 and plot it together. I don't know, but if they make Blood & Cheese as another misunderstanding/accident (after Alicent/Viserys, Aemond/Lucerys), it would be too much.

It's a bit weird but I completely understand their decision. I saw some many comments about : - "How great is Daemon! - Yes he's bad but he owns it, he's not a hypocrite. - This guys doesn't give a shit about anything, he's an absolut badass and I love it.."" Blablabla, Sara Hess got a lot of hate on the internet, some even calling her names because Daemon strangling Rhaenyra was out of character for Daemon. Show viewers can be so dump..

No, I think Daemon will have the bigger role in Blood& Cheese. Given how Mysaria was portrayed in the show, and that line to Otto about wanting to protect the children in the streets, it would make no sense to have her giving orders to target the kids of Helaena. I think having Daemon strangling Rhaenyra is a way to prepare the audience of what he'll be willing to do. Don't forget, it's Daemon who writes "eye for eye, son for son". I would be really pissed if they didn't show him being the backer of this plan. It's just how he sees justice being done, one son of Aegon for a son of Rhaenyra.

Yep, If we start making assumptions on how good a king or queen would be based on their sexual behaviour and proclivities, we won't get out of the woods until a Republican party emerges in Westeros.

I don't think so, I think that will still be mainly Daemon.. Probably also why they kept cutting some scenes (with his daughters, his grieving on the beach) and showed him almost strangling Rhaenyra to remind the audience that, despite his badassness, he's still a violent and vengeful person. But I think Rhaenyra will have a stern reaction to Blood & Cheese, she won't burst in outrage, she won't be pleased with it, but accept it as war casualty.

It felt quite clear to me that little Aemond understood he needed to let it go at that moment to protect his mother. Even Otto told her to drop the blade. It doesn't mean that he would forgive the person responsible for taking his eye out. I certainly wouldn't.

One thing I would like your opinions is Jace's statement that dragons are faster than ravens.. I don't recall that particular line from the books, but from F&B as well as ASOIAF, it seemed to me that ravens are faster than dragons actually. No ?

I don't think Daemon's character was ruined either. I felt pretty neutral toward Daemon in the book, he didn't stir up my emotions or imagination compared to other characters. But I really dislike him on the show. Maybe I hate Daemon's stans more than anything ^^ No, I think it's because I didn't care much for Viserys in the books whereas I really love his character on the show. Having a sibling myself, I could not imagine said sibling being seriously ill and just walking away. Agreed. I read on this thread somewhere that dragons were not horses, but being a horserider myself, I can think of at least 10 occasions where I almost shitted in my pants when ridding the horse. Or not even ridding actually, once I got bitten pretty badly because the horse got himself bitten by a horsefly and I just happened to be in the way at that moment.. Another time the pony I was riding didn't want to do anything that day and i got thrown off 3 times in an hour.. whereas the last time I had ridden him, it went well. They're animals, they have senses and a will of their own. They get scared, angry or bored. It is no coincidence that horseriding is the most dangerous sport in the world (both in terms of number and gravity of injuries)

Why would they do that ? Of course modern viewers wouldn't see her as a whore. Maybe a little stupid not to take a lover with silver hair like her to father her kids but definitly not a whore. Otherwise every male character in Westeros is also a whore. I never though once she was a whore reading the book.

Both can't be compared. The first one is an obvious mistake. The second is very plausible. It could have been intentionnel or it could have been accidental. They decided to go for the last one. It's a choice but it's a perfectly plausible choice. Rather than Dany being in a war and forgetting about the ennemy's fleet. You can desagree with that choice, but don't compare it to a stupid scene, that wasn't stupid (Unlike their take on Laenor's fate).

Then I won't start coming up with arguments. Clearly, it's wasted energy. But really, if the show makes you feel so negative about it, you should just stop watching it.

I really think Arrax fired out of fear and thenn fleed as fast as he could to an area (above the clouds where the winds wouldn't be as strong) that he felt was safer. Bad idea because then he was just out in the open, but no human nor animal think clearly when thy're freaked out. No, I think he just wanted to scare the hell out of Luke. And succeedeed to the point Arrax freaked out and lash out first.

I find it very plausible that Arrax, out of fear would strike the first blow, little animal can panick quite easily under stress. It doesn't make Aemond stupid, It just means that emotions of dragons and their riders are interconnected and Vhagar wanted revenge from Luke through Aemond. Vhagar also wanted to protect her rider against the fire, it pulled the string and Aemond lost control of her. If we can assume dragonriders really control their dragons at all. I'm a horse rider, and I quite agree with Viserys'statement, while we can think of ourself as having great control over much stronger animals, it's quite often an illusion. I can name at leats 10 different examples when my horse did something that I didn't planned, and things he did while I tried to stop him. But I'm on the fence whether I like that decision or not.. Between that and Alicent's misundertanding, the war seems like it results mostly from accidents.

The problem is also that the character didn't age at all, and they didn't even made an effort for it, he looks the same age as Aegon and Aemond, when he needs to be 20 years older. You'll say Daemon too, but Matt Smith at least looks in his early 40's. Fabien looks like a 25 years old. He still looks like a bitter college guy who holds a grudge against his first girlfriend. And he doesn't have that much lines either to make the character speaks about anything else. So it's difficult for him to appear with a kind of stern charisma.