TrueMetis

So we've moved from "Israel didn't attack the hospital" to "it's fine Israel attacked the hospital, they did warn you." Didn't take long did it?

To give cover for all the murdered journalists.

... Yes Bird, obviously that isn't an actual NYT paper. Okay got it, from here on I'll make sure to write "THIS IS A FICTITIOUS ARTICLE USING SATIRE TO MAKE A POINT" in bold if I ever link something similar again. ETA: Though in case you think the fictitious part includes the journalists themselves. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_the_2023_Israel–Hamas_war https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/19/journalists-killed-israel-gaza-war/

Half of all journalists reporting from Gaza dead. *Half*.

Well there's a whole bunch of people held in indefinite detention without any charges, including literal children, so they could start with those. You know, hostages for hostages?

just for some context, in the 1980's the IDF created a ribbon, the Lehi Ribbon, for members of Lehi. An "award for activity in the struggle for the establishment of Israel" Lehi being the one of the two groups that carried out this massacre. Lehi also tried to ally with the Nazis against Britain. Former Israeli PM Yitzhak Shamir was a member, he planned the assassination of Lord Moyne, many members of Lehi joined the IDF, and the "oldest IDF reservist" Ezra Yachin who Israel was parading around for a while is accused of participating in this massacre. Like this attack wasn't some unexpected thing from some totally rogue element, it was planned to cause fear in the Arab population by specifically attacking a friendly Arab village and approved by the Haganah who would go on to become the IDF. Like I said last thread when I posted that video. A deeply and deliberately fucked up system.

Yeah, hence why the important thing is to look at what's being done, not who's doing it. Like if the English had been native to North America that would change whether they were justified not at all. The fact that what is being done and the justifications being used has *not a goddamn thing* to do with the Indigeneity of the people doing them is apparently lost on you. ETA: Like is anyone here gonna deny that what Russia is attempting in Ukraine is also a colonial project despite Russians living there too for a very long time?

If you want to be taken seriously don't spew colonist claptrap in front of an indigenous man and expect him not to comment on it. But then, since you're response is to hide behind accusation of antisemitism rather than defend the point it's clear you don't want to be taken seriously.

If you don't want to be compared to colonists stop using their justifications and methods then.

Speaking of reductive, pretending that you can reduce the middle east to "the Arabs" as a cohesive group is pretty reductive. Guess we could have made the Netherlands the Jewish homeland because "the Europeans" get control of the rest of Europe. Ah the old colonist standby "they're not using the land *right*." Never gets old does it.

I'm gonna need you to unpack what you're saying here immediately. At best it's nonsense, but given some of your other stated views I'm leaning more toward shameless exploitation.

Just a deeply, deliberately fucked up system.

The fact that there is no goddamn way that this operation actually succeeds in the stated goals does seem to be rather conveniently ignored by many.

Ex-fucking-actly. But that means something different to you than it does to me. Israel, population 9.8 million, has a military composing of 169,000 regular duty personnel. That makes it 30th in terms of size. More importantly, Gaza has a population of 2.3 million and according to Israel's own numbers Hamas numbers about 30000. Kind of want people to stop pretending the IDF is some scrappy underdog rather than one of the largest most technologically advanced military's on earth.

Really can't believe people are claiming that because the refugee camp is really old that makes Israel's actions more defensible and not that it makes the situation all the fucking worse. Like what the actual fuck? "It's not a refugee camp! It's successful ethnic cleansing!" Yeah but people are gonna pretend that soldier's lives are more important even though the entire fucking point of a soldier is to put your life at risk.

I do hope this expanded definition of acceptable military targets, and of acceptable military operations, and of "human shield" now meaning the complete suspension of protection for civilians, gets consistently applied in the future even if say, someone were to blow up a bar the military frequents since that would seem to check all the same boxes as this strike on a refugee camp eg Military commander, military fighters, and nearby infrastructure that the military uses. But I've a feeling it won't be. Indeed I suspect many of you will object to the very idea even though at this point at a minimum you've made any city that hosts a military base an acceptable military target in totality.

FFS I didn't say intent didn't matter Tywin. You're smarter than this, don't bother responding until you remember that.

IDK man, maybe we could look at their actions instead of just what they're saying? Or do you think North Korea is democratic and a republic? Like yes, they are also trying to commit genocide, the speed at which they are doing so is irrelevant. I'm Canadian, you're American, we both know that a country can be slowly committing genocide all the while pretending they're not and indeed are claiming thy are trying to help the people they are slowly wiping out.

Okay, to be clear I was focusing on your "took ownership of what Nazis party did" part, kind of mentally glossed over that the fighting meant literally, because of course you're not going to rebuild when someone is actively fighting. Regardless, and to make my point clear. Germany wasn't rebuilt because the German's owned up to what the Nazis party did, making the German's own up to what the Nazis party did was part of rebuilding. To variable success and distinct differences between East and West Germany. You choose very odd areas to decide nuance is important. Though I guess you're consistent in not taking a given groups actually capability to carry out the threat into consideration. So Hamas and the Nazis are comparable because they have the same goal, even though Hamas has no actual hope of carrying that goal out and a fraction of a fraction of the powers, Israel however isn't like that because it's calls for genocide are "recent" (lolno) even though it absolutely has the power to carry out its threats (and has been, Israel has had a campaign of ethnic cleansing going on for decades, kind of irrelevant to me if they're not explicitly talking about the thing they're doing) Right, so you're opinion is worthless, noted.

Can you go farther than extermination? Since one of the biggest reasons Germany was rebuilt was to help fight the USSR, you're doubts are likely wrong. But like, yeah they did. At gunpoint. If you don't think the same couldn't be done in Gaza, then I don't know what to say because like, there's only a handful of reasons one could think that and none of them are good. PM Netanyahu has invoked the Palestinians as being like the Amalekites, for those who don't know according to scripture god order the Amalekites wiped our, man, woman, and child. What about the holocaust survivor's comparing Israel to Nazi Germany, are they engaging antisemitic Holocaust inversion?

While the laws of war are pretty complex and endlessly debatable, in this case it's pretty clear cut. Want to get into the weeds? It's actually debatable whether Israel had the right to self defence in this case at all, because that right is typically afforded when talking about defending against another nation state, rules are different when it's occupier and occupee. Okay, but Hamas isn't the Nazis. They're not a fully independent nation with a powerful army, navy, and air force. They're a terrorist group operating in one of the worlds largest open air prisons that has no alternatives because Israel has worked very hard to prevent other alternatives. ETA: Also like, once the Nazis where beaten Billions of dollars were poured into rebuilding Germany and making sure it could become a successful independent state once again, which seems pretty peace and reconciliation to me, but idk.

So apparently Israel destroyed the memorial to Shirin Abu Akleh, I was gonna say that jounralist they killed, but that wouldn't really narrow it down would it? If Israel wants the coverage about it to be nicer, maybe they should stop acting like the authoritarian villains in a dystopian video game? https://www.tellerreport.com/news/2023-10-27-to-watch---israeli-occupation-forces-bulldoze-shirin-abu-akleh-street-and-its-monument-in-jenin.SJeP1BZKfa.html

Weird that we're treating Israel's action as the best course of action when we have 20 years of evidence in Afghanistan that this kind of thing doesn't work. Hamas has leadership and personnel outside of Gaza, there is no possible way this actually leads to the destruction of Hamas. It may in fact increase their power as desperate angry people join in the hopes of revenge. Unless you kill every possible recruit I guess.

While the violence is escalating in Gaza, so too is it escalating in the West Bank (Content warning about some of the videos in there) https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/as-gaza-violence-grows-a-different-kind-of-conflict-is-emerging-on-the-west-bank/ar-AA1iBVsX Between concerns that settlers will use the attack as an excuse to steal more land, the Israeli foreign minister stating that Gaza will be smaller after they're done, and the stories about Israel having been warned about the attack beforehand it leads to some questions about how happy some in the Israeli government might be to have an excuse to continue their colonial project.

So was I.