Moon Man

Yeah, in any case, it's likely he took gold from Winterfell, either to mint into new coinage o to spend on the ships. At first Rodrik defers both proposals for review by the king. We never hear directly if Robb ever approved either, or if Rodrik decided to approve either or hand over any physical gold on his own accord. This tells us nothing by itself. I just think the structure of the chapter is about hinting at some things that float over our eight year old protagonist's head as they happen.

As I say, there are many logical reasons to dismiss this as nothing. My question is why the author chose to structure the chapter in this way. For related reasons, I don't see Ockham's razor as a useful tool for investigating literature. Certainly not mystery stories primarily concerned with perspective, intrigue, and deception. This isn't history or science. That said, I agree it's fairly clear that Manderly built his fleet of his own volition. But did he get money from Winterfell first? Did Robb ever know? These are questions I think we are meant to be able ask after a close reading. Thanks for the details.

Thanks for all this. I do think the big ships vs longship distinction is a possible, logical explanation for why Rodrik deferes one plan but orders another. But for me it's more about the structural element. The order sticks out in a chapter repeatedly about deferring to Robb. Manderly's request is deferred to the king, then a relatively similar plan is approved, and the Manderlys are implicitly ordered to carry it out, and the Umbers ordered to assist. The shades of difference between the two (or three: Manderly, Umber, and Rodrik) plans offers a reason for us to stop looking into it. But the structural foreshadowing of something still calls out to me.

But Rodrik orders the Umbers to supply Manderly with lumber. To "work with" Manderly. Was the Manderly plan already approved by Robb by the time of the Umber meeting? Or did Rodrik decide to approve on his own it between those meetings? Yes, he could be argued to be dreaming up a whole new plan for only longships for defense of the East coast, but we know from Davos later that this is not how the Manderlys interpreted this. They built the big ships. More important for me is what we are to make of the recurrent emphasis on the need to seek Robb's approval and what I see as this singular contradiction. There are lots of logical ways out of this contradiction, such as Robb actually approving the plan by raven. I'm more interested in the pattern and what it might deliberately foreshadow. Thanks for this

Exactly.

I think it's effectively, politically the same who ever is actually in the meeting. They are all representing their lords. I think this is about authority not manners. And for me it's more about the highlighting of a pattern and it's subversion. Thanks for reading

Or another king?

This is very intersting thank you. I was about to reiterate my disregard for the superstructural family/politic allegiances but actually claims to land and title are pretty materially relevant. Thanks.

But Rodrik orders the Umbers to assist in the *Manderly* plan. Was the Manderly plan already approved by Robb by that time or did Rodrik decide to approve on his own it between those meetings? More important for me is what we are to make of the recurrent emphasis on the need to seek Robb's approval and what I see as this singular contradiction. Thanks for reading.

Perhaps. But Rodrik orders the Umbers to assist in the Manderly plan. Was the Manderly plan already approved by Robb by that time or did Rodrik decide to approve it between those meetings? More important for me is what we are to make of the recurent emphasis on the need to seek Robb's approval and what I see as this singular contradiction.

Has anyone ever discussed the fishy circumstances of Rodik ordering the Umbers to provide lumber for the Manderly naval plan in Bran II ACoK? I'd love to see some links or have a discussion on this. I'll tell you what I mean. The Repetitive Structure of the Harvest Festival Meetings In Bran II ACoK, Bran wakes to a Winterfell full of guests for the Harvest Festival. The chapters is largely structured by the audiences each of the Stark bannermen have with Bran as "the Stark in Winterfell", and heavily stresses the need to seek approval from King Robb on all new matters brought before the high seat. That is, except in the case of the Umbers contributing to the Manderly naval plan. Which is more than passing strange, and could indicate something conspiratorial. The Manderly Naval Plan The meetings are administered by Rodrik and Luwin. Before the audiences begin, Luwin implores a wistful Bran to "Listen, and it may be that you will learn something of what lordship is all about." And listen he does, "to old men speak of things he only half understood." The first meeting is with Wyman Manderly. He petitions for approval of new customs officers, pitches minting coin for Robb, and then preposes the building of a war fleet. "Grant me the gold and within the year I will float you sufficient galleys to take Dragonstone and King's Landing both." Bran likes the idea but, as instructed by Luwin, says nothing. Then comes the first invocation of the motif that will define the chapter but for one important contradiction. "Ser Rodrik promised only to send the proposal on to Robb for his consideration, while Maester Luwin scratched at the parchment." Here we see that the administrators claim no authority to approve proposals brought before Winterfell while the King in the North is away at war. They merely offer to bring it before Robb and await his will on the matter. Luwin is taking minutes of the meeting which will, presumably, be sent off to Robb in some form by raven. The Hornwood Issue Then, after midday meal, Manderly makes the first mention of Lady Hornwood's situation and his own proposals of marriage, and then brings up is captive son. Rodrik does directly instruct Manderly not to take any deals from the Lannisters, but it's obvious that this is a matter of settled policy that all the bannermen and Rodrik know Robb's feelings on. The next morning, Lady Hornwood herself discusses the harvest and winter storage, brings up "the bastard of Bolton" for the first time, and mentions her marriage prospects. Rodrik's responses are reassurances of the basic responsibility of Winterfell to uphold the law in the north and protect bannermen from each other. The Umber Contradiction On the third morning of audiences it gets interesting. Mors and Hother Umber come before the high seat. Mors immediately proposes marriage to Lady Hornwood. Once again, Rodrik promises only to bring the proposal before the king. Hother, coincidentally, has come seeking ships. Longships and sailors to help defend the Bay of Seals from wildling incursion. Rodrik is quick to notice the opportunity and the following exchange occurs: "You have forests of tall pine and old oak. Lord Manderly has shipwrights and sailors in plenty. Together you ought to be able to float enough longships to guard both your coasts." "Manderly?" Mors Umber snorted. "That great waddling sack of suet? His own people mock him as Lord Lamprey, I've heard. The man can scarce walk. If you stuck a sword in his belly, ten thousand eels would wriggle out." "He is fat," Ser Rodrik admitted, "but he is not stupid. You will work with him, or the king will know the reason why." And to Bran's astonishment, the truculent Umbers agreed to do as he commanded, though not without grumbling. Somewhat of a departure from the response to the original Manderly proposal. It's possible of course that in the time between the lunch break on day one and the start of the morning Umber audience on day three (something like 44 hours) they have sent and received back a raven carrying instructions from Robb to coordinate the Manderly naval plan with haste and at their discretion. I will return to this shortly. Later on day three the Glover steward comes before Bran and company. They discuss harvest policy and the Hornwood bastard who is ward to Lady Glover. It's here "that Bran soon realized that it was the steward, not Lady Glover, who truly ruled at Deepwood Motte." This highlights the potential power of the position Rodrik holds in Robb's kingdom a page after he gives that order to the Umbers. Bran Sees the Pattern On day four Bran reveals what he has learned, as if to make sure we are paying attention as well. Leobold Tallheart discusses his nephew's raising of a company of lances and possible plans to go South and join Robb. Rodrik instructs that no such action is to be taken, as it has not been ordered so by the king. Tallheart then brings up the Hornwood issue, suggesting that his own son be named heir to the Hornwood lands. This time it's Bran who "knew what to say. "Thank you for the notion, my lord," he blurted out before Ser Rodrik could speak. "We will bring the matter to my brother Robb. Oh, and Lady Hornwood." He had been listening. Every new proposal that is brought before Winterfell in the absence of it's king, save one, is taken to be passed to Robb for his approval. Rodrik and Luwin issue a few orders on grain storage policy and other matters for which it's easy to guess they already have instructions and have been empowered to cary them out. But everything new is a matter for the king. Except the order given to the Umbers to provide lumber for the Manderly naval plan. What could this mean? Clues of Conspiracy There are other fishy things about the Umber audience and the Manderly plan. Firstly, the coincidence that they are also looking for a navy. Secondly, their impolitic resistance to dealing with Manderly at all. Suspicious as I am by nature, it occurs to me that these could be related. I'm always suspicious of the personal, idealistic motivations given by the characters for their political choices. For example, I am immediately suspicious that the undying loyalty of the Manderlys is actually motivated by their gratitude for the Starks of old taking in their itinerant, displaced house and giving them Whiteharbor hundreds of years earlier. A case made explicitly as a performance, I might add, in Davos II ADwD. In the real world, these kind of political narratives are superstructural, the facade over the more material motivations and structural forces that shape history and politics. I tend to think that is how Martin writes it, but that is a discussion for another time. The point is the Umbers rude protestations that they would ever have anything to do with the Manderlys sounds like bull. It's also a great cover against anyone (readers included) getting it in their head that there is, in fact, no naval coincidence at all. By scoffing at the concept of working with Manderly on a navy, they loudly deny, without anyone asking, that they had consulted on the matter before arriving. Suspicious. Over Robb's Head or with His Approval? The chapter is structure around repeating over and over again the importance of deffering to King Robb for any novel decisions. In the last audience, in case we haven't noticed, Bran helps us see the pattern by demonstrating that he has seen it so clearly as to blurt it out of turn, impressing his minders. This should be a strong clue to us that the author is trying to highlight the contradictory example of the Umbers being ordered by Rodrik to cooperate on the Manderly navy plan. Could Winterfell have actually gotten approval, unmentioned by our author, for the navy and instructions to coordinated it as best they saw fit in the 44 hours they hade to turn around Raven communication with Robb? I have no idea. The speed of raven communication isn't something I'm really interested in discussing here. Though I would guess this chapter has been used in the past to speculate about raven travel time. Additionally, seems to me that Robb has left Riverrun well before this time. So there is the added question of whether he is keeping Winterfell apprised of his address on his secret rive into the Westerlands. Seems risky and complicated. This point is impossible to grasp on the first read or without a lot of research that has been done by readers. The next point is plainer to see. There is also some evidence that Luwin is not sending off minutes to Robb at every meal break. After the last audience and the final discussion of the Hornwood conundrum, Rodrik and Luwin discuss all the proposals they've heard and Rodrik says, "We must think on this carefully. Robb should have our best counsel before he makes his decision." This cold imply that they are holding back the minutes, waiting to discuss them all and make recommendations before sending anything to Robb. Indeed, this could be the purpose of the repeatedly discussed Hornwood issue, which is first brought up at the first meeting with Manderly. This invocation of sending their "best counsel" connects the first and last meetings with this idea of delaying those ravens. The Real Questions are Not About Ravenry The question is this: Is the inclusion of perhaps just enough time for a raven to make the round trip built into the timeline of the meetings (which is easily tracked) to allow for Rodrik to confirm that the Manderly plan has been approved by Robb and is going forward? Or is the inclusion of this 44 hours intended by our author to throw us off the sent of something fishy when we begin to look into the odd case of Rodrik's order to the Umbers? We could easily conclude that because it is possible that they've communicated with Robb that they must have, because Rodrik and the Manderlys couldn't possibly be up to anything shady. But of course they could. This is the game of thrones, after all. So what does it mean if there is something shady going on? Firstly, the Manderlys and the Umbers are in on the navy plan from the beginning. They both propose similar ideas, for apparently unrelated reasons. The Umber reticence obscures this coordination. The effect for all who are privy to this information is that the Umbers were forced into this arrangement under protest. But why do the Umbers propose it in the first place? If they are worried about their Manderly cooperation being discovered, why come around asking for shipsat all? Are they just incredibly lucky when Rodrik give them what they want without ever hearing from Robb? No, they must have brought up the issue to give Rodrik the opportunity to give them the order. In this case, Rodrik is in on it, perhaps only being recruited between the two meetings. Perhaps he's being given an opportunity to correct his mistake of not rubber stamping the Manderly plan in the first place. What will it say in the minutes sent to Robb? Speculative Conclusions The Manderlys and the Umbers want to build a navy. The Umbers don't want it known that they were in on this plan from the beginning, which gives them plausible deniability of whatever the navy is really for when it finally happens. Rodrik is also in on this plan, on some level, and the Umber longship request is contrived to confuse the matter of it's approval. It seems they do not want to risk an answer of no from Robb about the ships. Indeed, if they are aware that he has struck out from Riverrun, which they may well be, they may intend for this matter to get lost in the mists of memory before Robb ever hears about it. By the time he hears of it, the confusion will have held, the project will have started, and Bran, the 8 year old boy, may be confused as to exactly what was said to whom. Manderly may be prepared to claim farther down the road that he received the approval to begin immediately at his audience. Luwin and his minutes might have contradicted this, but who knows what plans they might have to deal with that? Of course we might also ask if Luwin is in on it. It's him who oddly tells Bran, "One day you will be a good lord for Winterfell, I think." This prompts Bran to correct him about the likely line of succession of the Kingdom in the North, without even mentioning that in some sense there is no "Lord of Winterfell" anymore. Rodrik covers for him with something about the uncertainty of the future, but its interesting that Luwin and Rodrik here have broken from the party line of Robb's kingdom. It's a slip of the tongue, to be sure, but revealing what? I think I know what they are up to, but that is for another post, and a larger theory. I am interested now in what anyone has to say about this event and this line of thinking. Doubtless it's been talked about about somewhere before, and I'd love to see that. Thanks for reading.

I have a few more scattered thoughts to add to this for further investigation in the future. 1. "The sphinx is the riddle, not the riddler," prophetic girberish told to Sam by the dying Aemon could possibly have something to do with the consciousness of dragon life. The human head on the body of a dragon as seen in Valyrian sphinxes would be an artistic representation of the once human consciousness that is the mind of every dragon. Given that the Valyrians made statues illustrating this point, it may be obvious enough that it was never fully lost to the Targaryens. Imagine Egg and Aemon, having researched the materials available, come to understand this point and that they must put a human consciousness into an egg to hatch it. Meanwhile, their dragon dreams or the interpretation of past Targaryen dragon dreams are telling them "the dragon has three heads". There is a question here, a riddle. If a 'dragon has three heads,' why does the Valyrian sphinx have only one? From their perspective, the existence of these single headed sphinxes made by the dragon lords themselves simultaneously confirms any other suggestion that human consciousness is needed, while confounding the assertion that 'the dragon must have three heads.' In a sense, the sphinx is therefore asking the question. The sphinx is 'the riddler'. Perhaps Aemon is realizing that the sphinx is not actually posing a question because there actually is no contradiction. The Valyrian sphinx is, yes, a representation of human consciousness in a dragon. It is also true that the dragon must have three such consciousnesses. However, the Valyrians feel no need to represent the sphinx with three heads because their dragons have a blended consciousness. A strange concept perhaps to anyone but the children of the forest. The Valyrians knew that the 'three heads' effectively become one. Thus the sphinx is not posing a contradiction, but rather demonstrates the answer to the the meaning of the 'three heads of the dragon" riddle: blended consciousness. 2. Rheago's consciousness being a valid fulfillment of this requirement for egg hatching, as well as the possibility that he was not a still birth but was murdered, brings up the possibility that many Targaryen miscarriages have actually been murders committed to procure suitable human consciousnesses to hatch an egg. 3. While a consciousness might be deposited in an egg upon someones natural death and wait there in storage for quite some time, we should specifically consider all Targaryen deaths near the hatching of dragons as candidates for dragon life. Especially interesting are times when lots of Targs die and dragons are born.

Beautiful. Thank you. This makes perfect sense. In this scenario it would be very natural for people who had seen fresh eggs to conclude that the older eggs in question had turned to stone. We could perhaps quibble as to whether they had turned to literal stone. We could ask whether the hardened scales have turned from proteins into something more mineral, but we might exceed the limits of the citadel's power of magnification and understanding of chemistry. Indeed, avian shells are mostly calcium carbonate which is basically limestone, confusing the issue further. It sounds like Benifer is not aware of any stone egg ever being sawed in half to see what happens to the inside. So the question would remain, are the truly 'stone' or merely stone-like? Even so, this perfectly answers the question of why someone would make this determination and is a very plausible and well thought out possible version. The answer being that they do noticeably, materially change. As for me, since we don't have any of this information and since the claims of eggs 'turning to stone' come from sources who would not have ever seen a fresh egg, I'm forced to wonder if there has not been a misunderstanding. Because of how we hear only dubiously about eggs turning to stone and because Danny's eggs do end up hatching, I think it also makes that the eggs could always have the same weight, feel, and appearance. Post Dance Targaryens and others ignorant of dragon secrets see that they aren't hatching, notice that they look and feel like stone, and conclude that they must have turned from a more egg-like composition into the way they are now. Rather than eggs turning to stone, what has happened is merely a loss of knowledge or lack to begin with. We don't really even know if they ever truly gave off their own heat or if that's some kind of extra sensory hallucination of Danny's and other egg lovers before her. So perhaps because of how I read ASOIAF as a literarily ambitions and experimental work in which the author has challenged himself to tell a coherent story in which all exposition is delivered from the perspective of characters who are nearly always wrong about everything, if I could put money on what's in Martin's head this is the bet I would place.

I'm really not looking for proof of anything. This is more of a thought experiment. I'm trying to asses what you or anyone thinks it could mean when characters in the story tell us some eggs have 'turned to stone'? I'm literally asking what you think has caused them to say this? Is it how they look and feel? If so, what makes the characters who say this think they weren't always exactly as they are? Is it that they've seen healthy eggs and the ones before them are different somehow? How? Do you have any ideas on this?

In your opinion, what were the eggs like before turning to stone? Were they fragile like a chicken egg? Could you crack a fresh one open and fry it? Did they look different? Feel different? If a fresh egg and a 'stone' egg were sitting in front of you, can you describe a possible way to tell the difference? Is it just that they give off heat? Or something more?

I guess my questions is what do you think the dragon eggs turned to stone from? Like how were they different, in your interpretation, before 'turning to stone'? Did they have fragile shells with reptilian scales and gooey centers and gave off heat? Did they look significantly different? Did they have a different weight? A different feel? Of were they they exactly the same as Danny's on the day she received them, only they gave off heat, a sign that they were alive? The answers to these questions really impact what it means for them to then 'turn to stone' or at least be described by people who have actually seen a fresh dragon egg as having turned to stone.

These points and quotes are well taken. That said, I think there is considerable room for misinformation and deception here. The whole wide world does not know the secrets of dragons and their eggs. What people think they know may be hearsay and assumption, like so much else in the story. Also, if we're saying that eggs which have turned to stone can be brought back to life again, then what has really happened to the eggs? If they have this capability then that is part of the very nature of dragon eggs. Meaning whether there anyone knew it or not, all or many eggs which have "turned to stone" are still viable given the right conditions. From here I'm led back to wondering if thinking they had turned to stone was just a common misunderstanding by people who don't know any better.

Danny's dragons are certainly special as they are apparently the only living examples in existence at the time. Beyond that I would say we don't really know what was special about their hatching. I suspect they were never "fossilized" at all. Imagine for a moment that dragon's eggs were always basically as heavy and shinny as gemstone, even back in the Valyrian heyday. That's just how dragons eggs are. Maybe they literally are stone, or just feel and look like it. Most people in the world then and in Danny's time would never have held or even seen an egg. If you tell people dragons come from eggs, they're going to imagine a big chicken egg. A fragile shell and a delicious jelly center. Then someone ignorant of dragon's finds an egg hundreds of years after the last dragon and picks it up and it's stone. They might come to the conclusion that it has died and fossilized. Or, if you told people such an egg was dead and fossilized, people might believe you and only asses the theft value of your egg at that of an extremely rare massive gem, and not the key to having your own dragon. Fo reasons outside the scope of this post I think Illyrio knew very well the dragon eggs were viable. Fossilization is a good cover story in a world ignorant of the secrets of dragons.

Yeah admittedly I basically think this is the case with most prophesy in the story. It's largely garbled misunderstandings. Great point about the valerian sphinx. This to me feels like the sphinx is a symbolic/artistic representation of the nature of dragons as having human consciousnesses. The "three heads" line then could be about trying to explain that the sphinx image is not complete. You need three consciousness to blend into the one head of the sphinx for the egg to work. Something like that.

Interesting stuff. Especially about consciousness inhabiting stone.

yeah this is cool. i totally think you may be onto something about there being infinite soul capacity in dragons and Dany ending up in one.

thanks i'll look into that stuff

Yeah I agree. I mention him only because I think he's an example of someone being driven to attempt to bring back dragons by the eggs themselves and getting it wrong (probably). but who knows.

This is a very rough theory about the nature of dragons and disembodied consciousness. I'm new to theorizing and I'm guessing this stuff must have been talked about before at some point and I'd love to see some links if anyone can find them. Could the "dragon have three heads" *inside it*? Disembodied, collective, and blended consciousness recurs in ASOIAF and it seems likely we've only seen some of what's to come. The Children live out their real lives in the weirwoods, a whole society inside the trees. The denizens of the House of the Undying seem to me to have uploaded their consciousnesses into something more like a now ancient computer. I think the warlocks barely understand the technology but tend to it and hope to upload themselves if they can, though they probably mostly die trying. What if dragons are also an old method for storing consciousness? What if there are literally (at least) three "heads" in every dragon? It's still an open question as to how one hatches dragon eggs. It's a mystery to readers and Targaryens alike. I am very convinced by Preston Jacobs' (youtube) theories about x linked genetics, pregnancy pheromones, and telepathy being instrumental. I would like to propose an additional requirement. Prior to Danny's success, Targaryens had for some time been trying to regain the lost art of dragon hatching. Jamie recalls that Aerys II thought if he died in a big enough fire he would be "reborn as a dragon". Aerion Brightlame got drunk and drank wildfire, apparently thinking "it would transform him into a dragon". Aegon "Egg" V burned a castle full of people in an attempt to hatch some eggs. All are thought to have been inspired by their "dragon dreams". Three "Heads" to Hatch Perhaps dragons and their eggs are vessels for collective consciousness designed to long outlive the human bodies of the people who inhabit them, much like the weirwoods and House of the Undying. Perhaps the "dragon has three heads" prophecy line means that there are three consciousnesses, three human "souls" in every dragon. Better yet, maybe its part of the recipe for hatching. Maybe you need either exactly three, or a minimum of three "heads" or minds or souls to get them to hatch. If this is true, Arion Brightflame may have (assuming he did some other things correctly, like at least having an egg around), indeed been "transformed" into a dragon (after a long wait in an egg, then, perhaps), joining with other minds to be reborn as Drogon, Viserion, or Rhaegal. Egg himself could be in there to with who knows who else? Maybe Aerys wasn't so wrong. Maybe if he had an egg around he could have transferred his mind or soul into it as his body died. This bares resemblance to a point made by Preston Jacobs (he's my fav, okay?) in his exhaustive exploration of Time Traveling Bran. According to this utterly convincing analysis, in order for Bran's consciousness to travel to the past and stay there his body must die in the present, in this case by impalement on spire of ice. It may be that to stay bound to the egg the body must die. Whether fire is a necessary cause of death is unclear. Probably not. It may be a kind of miscommunication or confusion with the need for fire to eventually hatch the eggs. Danny's Loved Ones Reborn Recall that Danny's eggs hatched at a combination funeral/execution. Could Drogo, Reahgo, or even Mirri Maz Duur's minds be among those now existing, blended, as Danny's dragons? Was this the solution Maz Duur offered Danny regarding Drogo's life? When he is left in a vegetative state we're meant to think that her riddle was revealed to mean that she saved his body but not his brain. Maybe she actually saved his mind. He was going to die at that point, so she bound his soul to the big black egg. I know I just said that death of the body was perhaps needed to secure the transfer into the egg, but it may only be that this is one convenient method of auto-soul-transfer, DIY style. It's not like you'd need your body anymore. In fact, I suspect Maz Duur's method is exactly what "shadowbinding" is. The art of transferring souls around from vessel to vessel, or setting them lose, disembodied, even when the subject has no particular telepathic gift of their own. Though she never directly claimed to be a "shadowbinder", it may be that Maz Duur used her art to save Drogo's mind, fully intending that the eggs would one day hatch. Why else would Drogon be hanging out on the Great Grass Sea? It's where a horse lord wants to be. Rheago could have been a similar story. I tend to think that Maz Duur was likely truly trying to save both Drogo and Rheago, but it's interesting to imagine that she may have killed both so their souls could be bound to the eggs and make them viable for hatching, as well and adding to their potential connection to Danny. And Maz Duur herself was clearly bringing something to the hatching event. If you were a shadowbinder bent on bringing dragons back into the world and you happened to find yourself on a pyre with some dragon eggs, wouldn't you bind yourself to one and be reborn as Viserion? In fact, she may have had to. She may have known that each egg had only two souls waiting around in them. The (Ilirio/Varys(?)/Maz Duur(?)/Marwyn(?) plan may have been to bind Viserys' mind to an egg. Perhaps he still was, but I suspect this was prevented by encasing his skull in gold. On the other hand maybe being a dragon was her lifelong ambition and part of the grand plan. A mind on the inside, as it were. Dragon Dreams This would also provide a much needed source of so called "dragon dreams". They are likely some kind of telepathic communication, like so much else in the story, but from where? Who? If there are human souls in every dragon and most eggs, it could be those blended human minds with their human (Targaryen) memories trying to communicate the lost art of dragon binding and enticing their decedents to join them in dragon-life. Dragonbinding Perhaps a more specific form of shaddowbinding, the term referencing the vessel rather than the subject. If that horn Victarion has carted to Slaver's Bay truly has a dragon related purpose, perhaps it is a device for binding souls to eggs. If you don't have the Targaryen telepathic gifts and taste for flames, nor a shaddowbinder around and you want to get your soul into a sparkly rock, blow the horn at it. It does, apparently, burn you to death in the process. On the other hand, there are no eggs around for Victarion's victims to blow at. This being the case, I wonder if the horn is exactly what Victarion thinks it is, but my another method. The Hellhorn The dragonbinder horn could indeed be for steeling dragons. That is, steeling them from their current inhabitants. Perhaps it's a dragon countermeasure. One blows the horn to eject the current occupants out into oblivion and send your own soul in their place. Or perhaps it merely adds you to the gang. Moqorro has convinced Victarion to make *three* of his sailors blow it. The question may be whether those three will remain loyal to Victarion once inside. Three Heads in Every Dragon Ever So there it is. If I'm right, every dragon that ever lived had at least three human souls blended inside it as a precondition of it's hatching. Egg (Aegon V) has to be in there somewhere. Is he in D or R or V? (assuming Danny's eggs were in Westeros in the late Targaryen period). Maybe Maester Amon has been preserved in booze so somehow his mind can also be bound to an egg if any of Danny's should ever lay any (or if Farman's eggs ever turn up). The possibilities are vast and there would be a lot more to think about if any of this is true. Thanks for reading. I'd really like to know what you all think and if this is an old, tired idea talked to death already.