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About Helled

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  • Birthday 05/15/1991

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    Spending time with my three cats. Reading (Agatha Christie, Stephen King, Marion Zimmer Bradley, George R. R. Martin, Juliet Marillier, Gabriel García Márquez, Paul Auster, Joanne Harris, Gillian Flynn, among other authors). Anime and manga (Death Note, Ergo Proxy, Sailor Moon, Lovely Complex, 20th Century Boys, Pluto, Monster, Berserk, Shingeki no Kyojin, Pygmalio, and anything by Junji Ito). Comics (anything by Alejandro Jodorowsky, Fables and spin-offs, Sandman, The Walking Dead, Über, The Wicked+ The Divine).

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  1. I know there's not any information to go on for Gael's case, I just happened to come across that theory one day and felt it was a reasonable enough explanation. It could be proven wrong in Fire and Blood, or maybe not, I suppose it's not that likely we will get much more detailed information on Gael. Vaella, maybe, as she lived in more recent times. I see. I do hope that gets clarified one day (maybe in a future Dunk & Egg tale?). True, judging from Brown Ben's case it's likely that most dragonseeds wouldn't even know which Targaryen they were descended from. Especially after a few generations had passed, as it seems to be the case with Ulf and Hugh. Even Alyssa and Rhaena, as capable as they were, would not succeed in keeping the Targaryen dynasty going for long, I agree. They would be left with Dreamfyre, who, while not a hatchling, was far from formidable, and Silverwing, who was probably a very young dragon still. Vermithor would be either dead (assuming Jaehaerys had been killed by Maegor in a manner similar to Aegon) or left riderless, and he was quite young as well. It would be probable that Alyssa would indeed try to claim Vhagar or Balerion, but who's to say she would have succeeded? We know blood is not a guarantee of anything, and she did not even have any Targaryen ancestors (or any recent ones, anyway) given that retcon concerning her mother. The Faith would definitely have a chance to recover in this scenario, and Rhaena and her daughters were already seen as "abominations" which makes things much more difficult for them. As for marriage alliances, it could be a solution in the short term but I suspect that it would lead to more conflict, especially if both Rhaena and Alysanne married influential lords - both of those would want their descendants on the throne. It would be even worse once Aerea and Rhaella were old enough to marry as well, unless they were both made to join the Faith as per Maegor's plan for Rhaella (and also as a way to pacify the Faith somewhat?). I had apparently assumed that the poisoning attempt had taken place after Viserys had already returned from Lys, that's why I didn't mention it (I was focusing more on cases where the continuation of male Targaryen line depended on a single individual). But yes, with Viserys there or not, it would not have been exceedingly difficult to orchestrate the poisoning of the whole royal family. That's true, they could have targeted the dynasty right at the beginning. But maybe Aegon, Visenya and Rhaenys were seen as too formidable to mess with, especially shortly after the Conquest. That said, there were assassination attempts during the First Dornish War, so that might not be much of an excuse.
  2. That's true about the milder cases of "monstrosities". Those are still fairly "mundane" in comparison to the dragonlike fetuses (being conditions that could happen in real life), but that doesn't mean that there isn't a connection there. On Jaehaera and Gael, I tend to agree with what has been theorized by some people - that the former suffered from autism and the latter from Down syndrome. There's not enough evidence to support either, especially in Gael's case (evidence for it being that she could have been born when Alysanne was already in her 40s, and she's described as "simple"), but it's not out of the realm of possibility either. I always wondered about Jaehaerys II's arm when I saw it being discussed in this forum. Was that particular deformity ever confirmed as canon anywhere or was it just extrapolated from the existing art Martin gave guidelines for? Yes, that's true, sons of Aemon/Baelon/Vaegon would have been more easily indentifiable, but like you said, maybe those were bastards one or more of the princes fathered when they were rather young. Same for Aenys - he might have acknowledged any bastards of his, but not if he didn't know about them, or was already married and didn't want to risk offending his wife, etc. By the time of the Dance, Aenys had been dead for over 80 years, it's plausible no one would really remember if so-and-so had been descended from one of his bastards. The period right after Maegor's death and before Jaehaerys I reached his majority would have also been a good time for potential enemies to strike... Jaehaerys was only 14 at the time of Maegor's death and he was the only male Targaryen left. If someone had killed him before he married Alysanne and had any children, the male line of House Targaryen would have been extinct. Sure, Rhaena, Alysanne, Aerea and Rhaella would have still been around, but given the patriarchal society of Westeros, they probably wouldn't be able to continue the dynasty (or it would just be usurped by the family(ies) of any future husband(s)). The same goes for the post-Dance era, before Viserys returned from Lys. After Aegon II's death, there were only Aegon III, Baela, Rhaena and Jaehaera left (and Jaehaera wouldn't live much longer).
  3. That's an interesting point you bring up there - I'd really like to know if any of the other Targaryen children who died in infancy, or were miscarried or stillborn had deformities similar to Maegor's children, Daemon and Laena's son, Visenya and Rhaego. As it's never mentioned, we could assume they didn't, but we can't be 100% sure. I had never thought about Aegon IV and Naerys' children from this point of view. Before, I just assumed that those stillbirths/infant deaths were due to Naerys' frailty and overall poor health, but it could be something else. I just don't think those children would necessarily have noticeable dragon-like deformities, as Aegon IV would have likely used that as further "proof" of Naerys' alleged adultery (other health issues that made them non-viable being very possible). I agree, it's extremely unlikely Denys was even old enough for the claim of being Maegor's bastard to even make sense. As he was probably unaware of who his Valyrian-blooded ancestor was, he just made up the Maegor thing. I guess it's not impossible he was the descendant of a bastard child of Aenys, though. Or maybe a son of one of Jaehaerys I's sons?
  4. I suppose that could work if the girls happened to have hair closer to gold than silver in colour, which is not completely unheard of in Targaryens (Elaena had that golden lock of hair). If they were also lucky enough to have eyes on the darker side of the violet/purple/etc. colour spectrum, they could also try to make them look dark blue by wearing blue clothes often or something of the sort (dying their hair blue like Young Griff not being an option in this case). I see, it's not really out of the realm of possibility that an Essosi Mistress of Whispers would know where to find adequate fake Targaryens... There probably were quite a few dragonseeds around at this point in history, I guess, hadn't really remembered that. While there would possibly be some non-Targaryen people with Valyrian looks around in Westeros (dragonseeds, Velaryons, Daynes), I don't think Hightowers had that look at this point, it would be more likely for that to happen after Rhaena (daughter of Daemon and Laena) married into the family. (I could be wrong, though.)
  5. Interesting idea, but I don't think it would be that likely considering that Rhaena would need to find two girls who were also twins (or close enough in age to be able to pass as such) with the classic silver hair/purple eyes Valyrian look. Who would fake Aerea and fake Rhaella be then? Targaryen or Velaryon bastards (or descendants of bastards)? The same logic would apply to the real Aerea and Rhaella...you would think it would be hard for two Valyrian-looking girls to be in hiding for the rest of their lives. Someone would notice then eventually, even if it was just years later. And yes, assuming the girls found by Tyanna were fakes, the silver hair and purple eyes description in the text would apply to them, but it would be almost impossible for Aegon and Rhaena's real twins not to have that look. EDIT: Not to mention, Rhaena would have no reason to keep up the deception once Maegor and Tyanna were both dead. I have a hard time believing she would keep this a secret, and since her brother was the king, he would have the resources to look for them all over Westeros if he wanted to.
  6. I figured that was the case from the text, but I thought to mention it just in case. It does seem like written accounts from maesters are not always consistent with ages of characters, sometimes just subtracting the year to get the person's age, sometimes taking the time of the year they were born into account (not that this is the case for Aenys' children, since we don't know when any of their birthdays fell in the year). I might not be remembering this correctly, but I believe that Aegon III (for instance) was mentioned as having a birthday late in the year, yet the text did not always reflect this in The World of Ice and Fire. Now that you mention it, I seem to recall Viserys being mentioned as dying at age 15 in The World of Ice and Fire, glad to know that was already taken care of.
  7. There seem to be some inconsistencies In The Sons of the Dragon regarding ages. We know the exact years of birth of Aegon, Viserys, Jaehaerys and Alysanne from the text: But later on we have: In 42 AC, Viserys, Jaehaerys and Alysanne would be 13, 8 and 6 respectively. Though I suppose this particulary inconsistency can be explained by Aenys dying very early in 42 AC, and all three children's birthdays falling later in the year? Later on, there's this: It's still 42 AC by this point, "the dawn of the year 43 AC" being mentioned a few paragraphs later. Seeing as Aegon was born in 26 AC, he should still be 16 in 42 AC. And afterwards, regarding Viserys' death: He should have been 15 at his death in 44 AC, since he was born in 29 AC.