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Lord Godric

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About Lord Godric

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    Not *That* Lord Godric
  • Birthday 09/25/1990

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  1. Lord Godric

    Jon should bend his knees.

    No, because (as I said above many times) she knew that attacking KL would kill the people of the city and killing tens of thousands of people. So this isn't true. She didn't do it because Jon advised her not to. The fact that she had to ask him (after having seemingly already been convinced by Tyrion that killing tens of thousands of people is a bad idea) is enough to show that she doesn't care about the people and will use brute force to get what she wants just like anyone else. This is Tyrion's diplomatic skill, not Dany's. So again, no leadership from Dany. Hardly a pretty wild exaggeration. It's common for people to talk about troops by referring to their commander, please stop trying to make it seem like I'm being ridiculous here when you cut out and ignored all of my post except for three lines. You're making my point for me, you just don't see it. After the battle, Dany defeated the SOTH with force, then burned their ships. All examples of Dany failing at diplomacy and having to resort to brute force. Again, no leadership. No I didn't. I said that Dany would be nothing without her Dragons. Which is true. Without her dragons she would have been among the Dosh Khaleen. Without her dragons she would have no giant slave army. Without her dragons no one would be following her. This is not saying the same thing as saying that Dany exhibits force by other means than her dragons. Two separate points. And I am not saying that to be a good leader you need to eschew the use of force, I am saying that Dany has shown she is good at ordering destruction and death, but she has done nothing to show that Jon should believe she would be capable or deserving to rule the Seven Kingdoms. Because, as we saw from Robert, being a good conqueror does not make you a good leader. And Dany has shown no signs of being a good diplomat, politician, or queen. A conqueror and commander, sure you can make that argument. This is a strawman, so I'm not going to address it. My whole point is that it is not formed in response to what she does, it is formed into response of the writers telling us the type of person she is while never showing us those actions from her herself. Everyone is. I don't understand what point you're trying to make with this.
  2. Lord Godric

    Jon should bend his knees.

    You're ignoring my point. I'm not going to debate in circles with you about this. So I'll just supply my previous words: Yes, she says the Red Keep but it is in reference to their earlier conversation, as Tyrion makes clear in this scene. In that previous scene Tyrion explains that "if we turn the dragons loose, tens of thousands will die." Dany herself notes that she is "not here to be queen of the ashes" meaning she knows that attacking Cersei in the Red Keep means destruction not just of the Red Keep but on King's Landing. When Dany asks Jon's advice on what to do he understands the repercussions of "just attacking the Red Keep" by saying that people will not love her if she "melts castles and burns cities." It is clear to everyone that attacking the Red Keep does not simply mean the Red Keep, but it involves collateral damage throughout King's Landing that will bring the city to ashes and kill tens of thousands of people. And although Dany seemed to believe that was unreasonable when she had other ways of claiming the throne, now that she doesn't she can't come to that conclusion on her own I'm sorry but the only derangement I see is your ability to pretend Dany did all of these things with planning, foresight, and good leadership. Liberating the cities was done by brute strength (Astapor she burned the slavers, Yunkai the Unsullied take the city by storming through the sewer). Not because she was a good ruler. As far as "staying to make things work" she clearly didn't do that in the cities she "liberated" as Yunkai ends up re-enslaving every man and the butcher king Cleon took over in Astapor. She does stick around in Meereen, but stubbornly refuses to learn from her mistakes and still thinks she can establish an entire new order by her will alone. Which leads to the establishment of the Sons of the Harpy and countless deaths. Again, through brute strength alone. She murders all of the Khals. Dany had 8,000 Unsullied in Meereen and they couldn't keep the peace. The "detailed orders" that she leaves to the other cities is basically "don't fuck with me," but like I said previously now that she is gone and the threat isn't imminent there is no reason that peace will hold. The only reason we are even led to believe it is holding is because the show is done with that storyline and doesn't want to readdress it. I do. Dany does not seem to. As I've said previously, this is a result of the show forcing the idea onto us that we should love Dany. Look all of these likeable characters support her, clearly she is doing the right thing and will make a good ruler. When her actions alone have not warranted such an assessment. The show is continually using artificial means like having Missandei speak for Dany's strength to show us why we should support Dany, while at the same time undermining those words with her lack of leadership, and, some argue, signs of madness. Her use of brute force doesn't always rely on the dragons. I don't ignore it. I've addressed it above. It isn't because of good leadership, it is because the show wants her to be the hero we are rooting for. So of course the most likeable and trustworthy members of the show flock to her. Her actions alone have not warranted their support however. She once took steps to improve the welfare of the least advantaged. She once talked of "breaking the wheel" in Westeros, but now she is firmly one of the many spokes on the wheel that will dish out suffering to the people because of her own pride and entitlement. Even if you think that she wouldn't burn the people of King's Landing (which is utterly false because both she and Tyrion recognize that releasing the dragons on the Red Keep would kill tens of thousands of people), he desire to even siege the city would lead to the suffering of the poorest first. Who do you think will starve when she cuts off their food supply? Certainly not Cersei first. It will be the peasants in the street who die of starvation so Dany can sit her ass on that throne. Even further, she's willing to allow the White Walkers to descend on the North (and most likely the entire country) because her pride will not suffer Jon to title himself King in the North. Any notion Dany once had of "breaking the wheel" is completely gone, as she has become one of the spokes that helps crush the people on the ground. I'm holding her up to her own standards. Just saying that "Cersei is crazy too" isn't enough to overlook the many faults and lack of leadership that Dany displays.
  3. Lord Godric

    Jon should bend his knees.

    Yes, she says the Red Keep but it is in reference to their earlier conversation, as Tyrion makes clear in this scene. In that previous scene Tyrion explains that "if we turn the dragons loose, tens of thousands will die." Dany herself notes that she is "not here to be queen of the ashes" meaning she knows that attacking Cersei in the Red Keep means destruction not just of the Red Keep but on King's Landing. When Dany asks Jon's advice on what to do he understands the repercussions of "just attacking the Red Keep" by saying that people will not love her if she "melts castles and burns cities." It is clear to everyone that attacking the Red Keep does not simply mean the Red Keep, but it involves collateral damage throughout King's Landing that will bring the city to ashes and kill tens of thousands of people. And although Dany seemed to believe that was unreasonable when she had other ways of claiming the throne, now that she doesn't she can't come to that conclusion on her own. Good at ruling? Indeed we must be watching different shows because Dany's attempts to free Slaver's Bay were horribly bloody ordeals in which not only former slavers die, but many former slaves and civilians are killed. The Sons of the Harpy slaughter civilians in Meereen and the city suffers from the bombardment of the other slaves cities that she "liberated" (which also have seen lots of bloodshed after Dany simply leaves thinking the peace she has established will continue after she is gone). Dany ends up getting out of the whole mess in Essos simply by setting her dragons loose and burning the Slaver's ships. That's not being good at ruling, that's brute force and slaughter to get your enemies to do what you want them to do. The second she can leave Meereen for Westeros she does, leaving only Daario to hold the peace there. And the only way peace will hold in Slaver's Bay is through some heavy artificiality, because we've seen what happens when the immediate threat of Dany and her dragons is gone, things fall to shit. I want to like Dany because I know that she is going to end up in a position of power, and it's damned easy to like the character that you are supposed to be rooting for. But the show has done a horrible disservice to her character (although to be fair, Martin has not got her to a point where she is worthy of ruling either). We are told that we have to love Dany and that she is doing the right thing, but her actions have not shown that. She made a mess out of Slaver's Bay (again, the only reason that any peace is Slaver's Bay is holding is because the show wants to be done with it and not have to worry about the repercussions of Dany's departure), she has been outsmarted in every move she has made in Westeros so far, and she doesn't understand why she can't just set her dragons loose. She's not a good ruler, and she has done nothing to show that she has the capacity to be a good ruler other than blow shit up with her dragons. If that is the kind of ruler she wants to be, fine. But the show is pretending that she is the savior that will change the dynamics of the entire system of power in Westeros. And she has never shown the ability to be able to do anything like that.
  4. Lord Godric

    [Spoilers] Rant and Rave Without Repercussion

    I don't think that's exactly the case. While I don't think that Cersei is the protagonist and any ideas that she should be show that the show is doing a terrible job with her character, the writers and producers want you to be rooting for Jaime and the Lannister forces. They say as much in the behind the scenes from the most recent episode, that they want the viewer to be torn between rooting for Jaime and Bronn to kill Dany/Drogon and rooting for Dany and Drogon to make Jaime and Bronn crispy. They are trying to make Jaime a hero of the series and that is where I think they are failing the worst because they have just utterly destroyed his character and anything that made him sympathetic.
  5. Lord Godric

    Jon should bend his knees.

    Ruling in Essos does nothing to earn her rule in Westeros. All the lessons she has learned have been completely thrown out of the window, she doesn't even understand why she can't just go and attack King's Landing and kill everyone inside of the city. Without her dragons, Dany is nothing. And she would not be near the throne in Westeros without them. That is just luck of the draw, that is not proving she is worthy of being queen, that is not winning over the hearts and minds of the people and houses of Westeros. You're right that the writers want us to feel like 5 seasons of Dany's storyline has been about her learning to rule, but the fact is that is not true for her character. She is still resting on the same exact notion that Viserys was in Season 1, that is "I was born to rule the Seven Kingdoms." There has been absolutely no development there no matter how much the writers want to force us to believe that.
  6. Lord Godric

    [Spoilers] EP704 Discussion

    It was a way of also complementing Dany and rewarding Missandei for her passionate defense of her. I don't think it was careless or out of place, it was flattery.
  7. Lord Godric

    [Spoilers] Rant and Rave Without Repercussion

    Exactly, which is why if his character was consistent in any way, he'd run away from that battle and into Dany's camp selling his services.
  8. Lord Godric

    Jon should bend his knees.

    You make great points. I guess my biggest problem is with the pacing and character development of Dany. She should be taking steps towards..something. But her character seems to have remained largely unchanged since season 3.
  9. Lord Godric

    Jon should bend his knees.

    I hope so. Because I have been so frustrated with the lack of this realization so far. Perhaps it is just because the show has been delaying it and delaying it until the White Walkers are a real threat, but this seems like something Dany should have realized so long ago. Especially since she was the one who talked the talk about breaking the system and freeing the people for so long. But she falls into the same trap of "I want what is mine" which makes her look no different than Cersei or Viserys.
  10. Lord Godric

    Jon should bend his knees.

    Dany probably is more familiar with the Lord's Kiss than Ygritte was.
  11. Lord Godric

    Jon should bend his knees.

    Yes, why force him to bend the knee? Why stress that you were destined to rule the Seven Kingdoms and will not tolerate someone calling themselves the king in the north? Why not an alliance with Jon to help each other instead of making him subservient to you. Dany insisting on him bending the knee is more of the same sense of entitlement we've seen from her character for quite a long time now.
  12. Lord Godric

    Jon should bend his knees.

    To me this is quite different from Dany's insistence that he bend the knee in the first place. On Jon's side I see a calculated decision about what is best for him and his people and on Dany's I see a prideful demand that does nothing other than stroke her ego.
  13. Lord Godric

    Jon should bend his knees.

    Sounds like you just don't like Jon. Dany has done nothing to prove that she is any better to rule the Seven Kingdoms than Cersei. Especially after having to seeks *Jon's* advice about whether she should just burn King's Landing to ground. Jon doesn't know if she's just another mad Targaryen and she's done nothing to prove that she isn't. As I've said before the only time we get any idea of why we should like Dany or why people follow her it comes from other characters, like Missandei. The writers feel like this means Dany herself doesn't have to show any positive character traits or explain to anyone why she ought to rule beyond "I was born to rule the Seven Kingdoms." Jon has no reason to want her to be the queen, he just wants her dragons and needs her dragonglass.
  14. Lord Godric

    Jon should bend his knees.

    You have to understand why Jon might be a little wary about doing something his Lords disagree with and expecting them to go along with it. It didn't quite win them over when he tried that at the Wall.
  15. Lord Godric

    [Spoilers] Rant and Rave Without Repercussion

    Especially after watching all of that gold get away from him? Yes, absolutely. Another part of that final scene that makes it the worst part of the entire episode.
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