The Dragon Demands

Mild leak:

Wake the Dragon now claims that three new dragons we'll see on-screen in Season 2 (but not the only new ones) include Moondancer (we know that from teaser), Tyraxes (we know we'll see them in the Vale)......and Stormcloud.

Put another way, now says reliable leaks put Stormcloud on-screen. This isn't a huge leak; given the "Chekov's Gun" that Daemon mentioned in the finale that he'd been collecting eggs, I expected to see at least one hatch on screen.

What WOULD be real news is if we got word on other hatchilngs like Morghul and Shrykos...or even Morning. No such luck.

also I had a bad cold right up until Christmas but I'm better now so I'm going to get back to working on that big combined video  "Season 2 Episode by Episode Outline Based on Cross-Referencing All Filming Phase Leaks Through 2023".

Hey, I realized that the wiki has no battle maps for the Dance of the Dragons, and hasn't really had new battle map updates in about a decade -- this wasn't an issue during HotD Season 1 but will be in Season 2, so I quickly cobbled together a few rough draft placeholder maps: I AM NOT AN ARTIST, these aren't good maps, they're just better than nothing, my goal was just to "get the ball rolling" on this as a project: 

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Category:Map_Images_-_Conflicts

Hey, I realized that the wiki has no battle maps for the Dance of the Dragons, and hasn't really had new battle map updates in about a decade -- this wasn't an issue during HotD Season 1 but will be in Season 2, so I quickly cobbled together a few rough draft placeholder maps: I AM NOT AN ARTIST, these aren't good maps, they're just better than nothing, my goal was just to "get the ball rolling" on this as a project: 

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Category:Map_Images_-_Conflicts

I’m busy with holiday rush but short reaction to teaser:

1 - NONE of the spy reporter channels I’m in contact with have remotely any idea what that shot of Alicent at a lake is. No one does. It’s a big mystery. Might even be a dream sequence for all we know. We DO know it’s in episode 7, because they recognized that as a real lake in Wales and they knew the filming schedule.

2 - it appears they’re going to actually give Baela more to do by showing her riding her dragon. I don’t know how: if she arrives at the AFTERMATH of Rook’s Rest it’s a good idea, but I hope she doesn’t participate in the battle (because it was an ambush; she’d have been killed). But we did want them to build her up more.

3 - yes, those are two shots of Seasmoke with Addam of Hull, played by Clinton Liberty ( some wondered if it was Nettles or even Laenor). We don’t know if we’ll see Laenor again (perhaps in flashback), but he apparently just died off screen in the Stepstones. Overall, despite RAMPANT speculation and outright misinformation by clickbaiters, all reliable leaks and spy photos indicate what they’re doing is fairly close to the books.

28 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

“Fire to fire” is kind of a dumb tagline, to be honest. I’m guessing it’s a play on “ashes to ashes,” just with the F&B motif jammed in, but it still doesn’t really make sense.

"From the fire we came, to the fire we shall return" is actually a thing - the Targaryens burn their dead, etc.

Me and the spy reporters on Twitter and Reddit; hyping each other up “maybe next week!” 

English doesn’t distinguish inclusive “we” like Hawaiian 

If *I* was inventing a subplot showing what the White Walkers are doing in this prequel era, I’d have them riding ice spiders…big as hounds…and make damn sure to put that in the teaser trailer.

I wonder if the teaser tomorrow will reveal the return of the White Walkers to a general audience - we know that from publicly circulated spy photos from the makeup department and spy photos of the new Wall set they built.

Because we reacted with cautious optimism: they loathe what season 8 did.

(shrug) they were hesitant about “another Westeros show” in general before season one. Probably same pattern this time: a lot of sound and fury when the teaser comes only to like what they actually do 

Even a month ago we thought CCXP was most likely, but dear god did we go crazy with assumptions last winter about the full trailer date. Teaser was October 5, full trailer wasn’t until the following MAY, but every weekend in December we thought it was “next weekend! 

Ah, when the official Game of Thrones Twitter retweeted this from the HotD twitter, they added "75 seconds are coming: 

I checked: the first Season 1 teaser was also exactly 75 seconds long. Difference is that those who saw it said that this one has a lot more substantial dialogue in it. For comparison, the season 1 teaser:

We're not 100% confirmed if it's the full trailer or perhaps clips of several scenes, but I'd take either one - point is they're releasing "footage" of some kind and admitted to it.

19 minutes ago, Jaehaerys Tyrell said:

Doesn’t a single season seem a little brief for 9 Voyages?

there's not a lot of source material

The season 2 wrap party is later today: 

Yes, it was in the news due to this new GRRM interview clip posted 12 hours ago:

So my tentative guess at Phase One is this:

Phase One (2022 - 2029)

• Summer 2024 - HotD 2
• Spring to Summer 2025 - Dunk & Egg 1
• Spring 2026 - HotD 3
• Summer 2026 - Dunk & Egg 2
• Fall 2026 - Young Corlys?
• Summer 2027 - Dunk & Egg 3
• Fall 2027 - HotD 4
• 2028 - Nymeria?
• Spring 2029 - HotD 5

2029 is where things get heavy.....

Phase Two (2029 - 2035)

A "Targaryen Conquest" show would follow HotD as the new "flagship" show...while a Regency era sequel would also continue albeit on a smaller scale. BUT HBO kind of wants to treat Conquest Season 1 as a theatrical movie. Meanwhile, Dunk & Egg would continue apace. Thus 2029 would look something like:

• Spring 2025: HotD 5, final season
• Summer 2025 - Targaryen Conquest theatrical movie
• Fall 2029 - Dunk & Egg 4 or 5 (depending on if they have a gap)

Thus "Phase Two" overall would generally look like:

• Targaryen Conquest through death of Maegor (5 seasons, with Season 1 turned into a theatrical movie)
• "Regency era" direct sequel to the Dance, lasting 3 or 4 seasons
• Dunk & Egg 4 through 7
• Possibly the second and third Nymeria seasons alternating in

Phase Three (2035 - 2042)

• "Conquest of Dorne through First Blackfyre Rebellion" should be one long 5 season show, but can only be made after the Regency show ends, thus it's Phase Three.  By its end this bridges the gap to Dunk & Egg 1.
• "The second half of Dunk & Egg overlapping with Young Tywin and the Reyne Rebellion" show follows into this Phase: Dunk & Egg die at the end of Season 5 but it continues through Season 7 with the Reyne Rebellion and Tywin being made Hand of the King (seasons air annually due to smaller scale, not year and a half turnaround).
• Possibly a short special or pair of TV movies covering the reign of Jaehaerys I, as a bridge between the Conquest show and House of the Dragon. Not a major project.
• Doom of Valyria - flagship show in the five to seven season range. Fills the need that neither First Blackfyre Rebellion nor Late Dunk & Egg have dragons in them.

Phase Four (2042 - )

• By this point, ALL of history from Targaryen Conquest up to Tywin as Hand of the King has been covered.
• MIGHT want to do Century of Blood as a direct sequel to Doom of Valyria.
• Andal Invasions only works as an anthology.
• ....GRRM doesn't want to do Robert's Rebellion, and even if you DID, it would at BEST be a 2 to 3 season project. Chronologically we wouldn't even consider it until this point leading out from seeing young Aerys II.

If they were going to consider an ASOIAF reboot adaptation more faithful to the books, it could happen no sooner than the early 2040s....20 years after Game of Thrones ended. Even DISCUSSING a new reboot before the late 2030s is absurd (I've had to talk down people who seriously thought by 2020, "will HBO announce a reboot soon?" - it's not like rebooting a movie series). 

By this point we'd have exhausted most historical eras in Westeros as well as locations outside of it....further emphasizing the need for an ASOIAF reboot in the 10 to 12 season range (think of it as 3 separate shows back to back). 

This doesn't include animated projects or specials.

Still....3 live-action shows airing per calendar year, we won't run out for maybe 20 years.

Realistically, I only expect you guys to take my chart of "Phase One" seriously - beyond that it's too far to guess.

But around 2029 there's going to be a changeover from House of the Dragon to Targaryen Conquest and a Regency show. 

For the next 5 years we're looking at House of the Dragon, Dunk & Egg, and perhaps filling gaps with Young Corlys and Nymeria.

I'm sorry I can't start a separate thread about this, but as a pure thought experiment while on the train I tried to work out what the future "Phases" of the World of Westeros Cinematic Universe will look like (obviously Phase 1 is the most accurate). 

This is an extrapolation from several rules:

• HBO shouldn't put out more than 3 live-action projects in a single calendar year, or risk oversaturation. Even Star Wars and Marvel rarely do this (discounting Marvel's post-pandemic year backlog). 
• There are different SCALES of project: a "flagship show" in the 5 to 7 season range doesn't count as much as having one-shot limited series, i.e. "House of the Dragon" is a flagship show, while "Young Corlys" might be a high budgeted one-shot. Dunk & Egg is also a bit different in that the scale is much smaller, but it could run for up to 12 seasons (I think the second half should merge with Young Tywin bringing it up to 14). But a long-form special effects heavy series isn't the same as some of the shorter or less dragon-heavy ones. 
• A "flagship show" isn't going to be cranked out every 12 months anymore, like Game of Thrones Seasons 1 to 6. Even late Game of Thrones couldn't keep up with that pace. MOST major TV shows these days come out roughly every year and a half or more. So as a rough guess, I'm functionally going with a year and a half turnaround time for flagship shows. Dunk & Egg, in contrast, they openly stated they want to put out in consecutive years, because it's easier to make. 
• Thus each "Phase" (defined as the run of a flagship show, supplemented by one or two shorter one-shots) for a flagship show of 5 TV Seasons lasts around 7 years.
• Out of universe, this means it takes maybe 7 years to run a 5 TV season show start to finish. Most of the potential flagships happen to be about 5 seasons. 
• Some story ideas are direct sequels to others and can't air before them, i.e. Regency era after Dance of the Dragons, First Blackfyre Rebellion after Regency era show. 

Conclusion: at the rate of 3 or so shows airing per year, there's enough material for THREE "Phases" lasting roughly another 20 years. "Phase 1" ends in 2029. Phase 4 begins in the early 2040s....at which point there might be serious discussion about rebooting a more faithful ASOIAF adaptation. 

Ideas floating around now include:

• Dance of the Dragons (House of the Dragon) - potentially 5 seasons
  • Regency show as a direct sequel, smaller scale and maybe 3 to 4 seasons
• Targaryen Conquest - a perhaps 5 season show covering the Conquest, First Dornish War, and then Sons of the Dragon era. Rumor is HBO wants to do "Season 1" as a high budgeted theatrically released movie, on the War of Conquest itself. 
• "First Blackfyre Rebellion" - a maybe 5 season show leading out from the Regency show, starting with the reigns of Aegon III's sons, continuing through the reign of his nephew Aegon the Unworthy, and culminating in the civil war between Aegon the Unworthy's sons. Which of course happens right before Dunk & Egg...
• Dunk & Egg part 1 - through Novella 7 with the Third Blackfyre Rebellion, a natural stopping point. There aren't time skips before that, but after the seventhy there's a 12 year time skip during Maekar's reign in which not much happens. 7 seasons, but short seasons.
  • Dunk & Egg Part 2 - starts with Egg being crowned, but overlaps so much with "Young Tywin and the Reyne Rebellion" they should be combined into one TV show. Dunk & Egg themselves would die at Summerhall in Season 5, but the story would continue with Season 6 as the War of the Ninepenny Kings, and Season 7 the Reyne Rebellion, ending with Tywin made Hand of the King to young King Aerys II...
• Ten Thousand Ships - Nymeria and the Rhoynar. In active development.
• The Sea Snake - The Nine Voyages of Discovery by Young Corlys Velaryon (setting up other spinoffs outside Westeros).
• Doom of Valyria - a flagship show in the 5 to 7 season range starting about a century before the Doom covering the civil wars leading up to it in the final season. Pitched by Max Borenstein.
  • Century of Blood - if popular enough, a direct sequel to Doom of Valyria about the surviving Valyrian colonies - nice narrative "sandbox" with cultural info from World book but specific intrigues up to new writers; also the era of the Dothraki invasions.
• Animated projects on Yi Ti, perhaps Summer Isles, etc.

Phase One (2022 - 2029)

Assuming that House of the Dragon seasons come out every year and a half, and that they're actively discussing going for five seasons in all, the schedule looks like this:

• Fall 2022 - House of the Dragon Season 1
• Summer 2024 - HotD 2
• Spring 2026 - HotD 3
• Fall 2027 - HotD 4
• Spring 2029 - HotD 5

HOWEVER, HBO has said they want to make the first 3 Dunk & Egg novella adaptations in consecutive years, as they are shorter and smaller scale. It's probably two shows, with the first half ending with Story 7 - Third Blackfyre Rebellion...BUT because the later novellas aren't finished, they might go on break for a year or so after that (or take longer breaks between seasons)....we only reliably know when the first three are coming out. Overlapping this with HotD, we can reasonably guess:

• Summer 2024 - HotD 2
• Spring to Summer 2025 - Dunk & Egg 1
• Spring 2026 - HotD 3
• Summer 2026 - Dunk & Egg 2
• Summer 2027 - Dunk & Egg 3
• Fall 2027 - HotD 4
• ?????
• Spring 2029 - HotD 5

As for that gap in 2028, Dunk & Egg might go on break before doing She-Wolves of Winterfell. 

But they're also actively discussing Young Corlys and Nymeria. Young Corlys seems like a one-shot, and Nymeria 3 short seasons at most (Fall of the Rhoynar, Voyages in the Summer Sea a la the Aeneid, then conquest of Dorne). 

Corlys and Nymeria could fill in those gaps, particularly in 2028, but still keeping to the rule "no more than 3 live action shows in one 12 month calendar year". 

We don't THINK Young Corlys or Nymeria will film in 2024....so they'd be filming in 2025, airing in 2026 at the EARLIEST.

Thus at a rough guess....two years from now is when we could start tripling up. 

If I was in charge? (ha).....Young Corlys to fill the gap in Fall 2026 as a one and done, then Nymeria in 2028. 

to be continued...

4 hours ago, Ran said:

Urban legend, as far as I know. The "She-Wolves" story was pretty far along, but I think "The Village Hero" isn't more than a rough outline in George's head.

Maybe George has advanced on them, but no one in the fandom would know it unless he made a public statement, and then everyone else would be able to point to it.

I can’t just give up on hope, like Brooks did.

Dunk & Egg returning Westeros filming to Northern Ireland?!

As first pointed out by Redanian Intelligence, veteran HBO Line Producer Lisa Byrne (who worked on all of Game of Thrones) updated her LinkedIn profile to list working on A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms.

HOWEVER, she listed the location of the project as Belfast, Northern Ireland:

https://uk.linkedin.com/in/lisa-byrne-09564a69

This isn't necessarily proof, because it could just be an error: maybe someone copy-pasted " Belfast" by accident, from seeing her prior work on Game of Thrones. We have no way of confirming. And it's not as if Dunk & Egg, particularly "The Hedge Knight", would need a sprawling list of external locations (the whole first story is at one tournament). 

But we need to keep an eye on this.

things were nuts in the pandemic and the REAL bad stuff is secretly influencing critics; and Bloys has greenlit stuff we wanted - he's better than the braggadocious last guy - no need to land on him. So no.

On 11/6/2023 at 1:27 PM, The Bard of Banefort said:

What’s surprising is that they were able to trace this back directly to Bloys himself. 

He used his personal phone!

I suspect Season 2 Nettles will be treated much as Season 2 Selyse Baratheon was

On 11/2/2023 at 12:29 PM, Ran said:

I see Bloys apologized for the tweet stuff, and actually he cites the pandemic and doom-scrolling Twitter as mostly why he became so frustrated. Honestly, makes sense. He's switched to just outright DMing and having conversations with critics.

Yes, privately intimidating journalists and saying “we’re HBO and won’t give you exclusive interviews if you keep doing this” is more more effective than using sock puppet accounts to publicly taunt them. Reporters don’t fear internet trolls they fear creator backlash. 
 

I oddly sympathize with Bloys though I know pandemic isolation was upsetting, and compared to the old administration Bloys is doing a decent job

It’s a profession. 
 

seriously, paparazzi

Big news: set spies who were reliable in the past now say the funeral procession in Caceres was episode 2, not 3….probably meaning Blood and Cheese is in fact the premiere.

They insist that Clare Kilner, not Geeta Patel, directed the funeral procession - and Kilner is doing episode 2.

this throws our entire season 3 outline out of whack

Ah, LEGAL benchmarks…I’ll ask around…