Evamitchelle

At that point they have no Lannister hostages, that's why winning in the field is the only hope. Once they've got the Kingslayer that's not necessary anymore to get the girls back. "We went to war when Lannister armies were ravaging the Riverlands, and Ned was a prisoner, falsely accused of treason. We fought to defend ourselves, and to win my lord's freedom. Well, the one is done, and the other forever beyond our reach."

That's the show. There are various characters in the books who say that there's no way Jaime Lannister is worth 2 girls, but none of them are Cat. Cat is the one who qustions this line of thinking by telling Robb "Girls are not important enough, are they ?" right after he tells her that he would have exchanged Jaime for Ned, but that he won't do it for the girls.

Tywin has considered Jaime dead from the moment he was captured, which is why he names Tyrion as Hand of the King in his place. "You have given him up for lost, he thought. You bloody bastard, you think Jaime's good as dead so I'm all you have left." Jaime's capture did nothing to prevent Joffrey from beating Sansa, Cersei from forcing her into a marriage or Tywin from planning the Red Wedding. He's important to them as a person but not as a political asset, unlike Sansa. I don't think he should have killed her, but she gave him his blessing to punish her in any way he'd see fit and he didn't do anything because he was trying to cover his major blunder with Jeyne Westerling. Um, I think that's from the show, not the books. In the books she asks Robb to trade for the girls several times : "If I must trade their four Lannisters for their two Starks, I will call that a bargain and thank the gods" in AGoT and "An offer had to be made - though a wiser man might have offered sweeter terms", "Cersei Lannister will never consent to trade your sisters for a pair of cousins. It's her brother she'll want, as you know full well","Girls are not important enough, are they ?" in ACoK.

1. It's one guy. Jaime's great but he's not God. He can't single-handedly turn around the course of the war. Sansa on the other hand is the heir to Winterfell and the North when Catelyn frees Jaime. 2. She told Robb she would accept any punishment (even death if I'm not mistaken). Since he had just screwed up royally himself by breaking his word to the Freys he chose not to do anything about it. He's also the one who chose to behead Lord Karstark. He could have taken him prisoner instead. 3. Brienne does not serve Robb. She serves Catelyn. She never took part in any of Robb's campaigns, and would have likely remained at Cat's side during the battles anyway. 4. It would never have been a problem if Robb had been smart enough to make the exchange when he was still winning. A slim chance is better than no chance at all.

I was talking about the books.

Except that she clearly mentions it to Robert as well. Something like "after our first boy died". I know Robert isn't the brightest bulb in the shed but I think even he'd notice if Cersei was suddenly inventing babies that never existed. Tyrion is the one who responded to Robb's peace terms and ordered that Ned's bones be returned to the North. He's the one who sent the Lannister guard to "escort" Cleos Frey back to Riverrun. That seems a good indication that he's got some weight in the decision-making process of KL. In any case what's the alternative ? Let Jaime rot in his cell forever instead of trying to use him to make a terrible situation less so ? Great plan.

Cat wouldn't have needed to send Jaime with a guard of 2 if Robb had had the sense to make the exchange in the first place.

You forget that the Lannisters had a bunch of hostages of their own, namely Sansa and Arya Stark (at least that's what they keep telling everyone). With both daughters the Lannisters could kill one in retaliation for Jaime and still have their claim on WF through the other. Since Robb and Cat think the Lannisters have both daughters killing Jaime would have been completely stupid. And that's why he's such a useless hostage. He can't be exchanged, he can't be killed, he can't be freed. Basically you can do nothing with him except put him in a cell and let him rot until the end of the war or until the Lannisters lose their own hostages. Exchanging Jaime was the smart thing to do, but since the "legal" way of doing it was blocked to Cat the only recourse she had was to go behind everyone's back and do it herself.

As a hostage Jaime was completely useless. He wasn't a bargaining chip because there was no one Robb found important enough to exchange with him (never mind the fact that Sansa had a claim to Winterfell that could be used against the Starks, while Jaime had no claim to speak of, being part of the KG) and he wasn't a deterrent to Lord Tywin who went on with the war as if Jaime'd been killed instead (unlike Lord Paxter Redwyne who stayed out of the war at the beginning because his sons were hostages). The idiot in this situation is Robb, who caved in to his bannermen's expectations, and refused to make a valuable exchange because "girls aren't important enough". Sansa became even more important after Bran and Rickon had been captured. Robb recognizes it himself later on in the books.

Meh. 6/10. I was mostly bored the whole way through. Pros : - Theon's scenes are good as always. - I'm glad to finally see more of Varys. I find him so much more interesting than LF. - Jaime/Brienne. - Cersei/Tyrion. - Seeing Sam again. He's the reason I found Jon's early scenes watchable. Cons : - I'm wondering how they're gonna sell Arya becoming an assassin. Her little stint in Harrenhal was pretty tame in the end. She didn't even kill the guard herself. - Jon bores me as always. - Robb and Talisa. If I wanted cheesy hollywood romance I wouldn't be watching GoT. - Robb and Cat. - No Sansa. - No one knows Bran and Rickon are dead.

Then why would he only assign one guard, if the Kingslayer is such a great prize ? Also welcome to the boards ! (You can use the Multiquote function at the bottom right of a post if you want to answer to several posts at the same time).

In short : you respect minorities, as long as they don't annoy you. It's their fault they're oppressed because they don't focus their attention where you think they should. And if oppression manifests itself in minor ways they shouldn't talk about it because there are poor Muslim Women being Oppressed as we speak. And you find my existence funny. Good for you. Unfortunately for me I don't find sexism funny. I'm gonna stop here. No need to bother everyone else with a meaningless back-and-forth.

Nuts of some kind. Rickon's been munching on them for a while, so it's supposed to be a sign that he was at the mill not too long ago. I think Tywin just doesn't want to take chances. If someone's out to get his lieutenant, they should probably be out to get him as well.

According to the Twitter recap on winteriscoming.net there are in fact some non-readers who think Bran and Rickon really died.

I thought we were done with each other but apparently you have a bone to pick with me. 1. Way to miss the point. Yeah insults are meant to offend, that's their purpose, we're clear on that. The point is that men should not be insulted when compared to women, since there's nothing wrong with being a woman. 2. It's not just English. Most of the worst French insults translate to bitch/whore/motherfucker. Mandarin also has quite a few choice insults revolving around mothers and vaginas. Sometimes both at the same time. 3. Women can be sexist too. I thought you knew that already since you've accused me of being sexist several times before. 4. I never said I wanted to ban anything. 5. Nice to know minorities should get a stick out of their collective asses. 6. And calm down a bit maybe ? At this point I feel like my existence offends you.