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legba11

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  1. legba11

    The Great Debate: Should Jon Have Lied?

    No, Cersei would still have gone with her brilliant and unforseeable plan to not hold up her end of the deal and everything would be exactly the same except Jon would have no credibility as a negotiator.
  2. 1. I said there was basically no reason for every Sansa/Arya scene this season (even though i was ok with some of them). You go further and I agree. What has LF done since he bribed Sweet Robyn and got control of the Knights of the Vale? He has done nothing that made sense and we waited for it all to come together in his master stroke. Instead we got this... 2. It is basically the exact same problem. We had all this production and bluster and nothing happened. Cersei would have been better served by just saying ok an armistice by raven after Tyrion's visit. Maybe send the agreement attached to her hated brother's head so she feels the victory in her agreement. 6. Sam traveled by horse and cart with the world slowest aging toddler. That would certainly speed things up. Maybe they were sucking Little Sam's aging time into warping their travel time or something. 7. Duh... Once your nards get removed you get a power up pedal attached to your crotch. Didn't they teach you that in biology? I thought it was was Harry Loyd for a moment. I was thinking how he aged. Cersei interrupting Dany's titles would have been great. I didn't know about Heady and Flynn. When that happened, I said out loud, "How odd, does one of them need to go die somewhere or something?" It would have been less jarring for Bronn to say to Pod, "Listen, Ser MagicCock we both know this is going to get ugly. Look around, you are the named red shirt in this scene. You need to get out of here."
  3. Flattery will get you nowhere! But a thank you!
  4. Yes, it feels like the nudity and gore are now just there to remind people they can do it. Odd, considering the show has descended into spectacle and fan service. I forgot about Qyburn, yes I loved that moment! The show is much better when people don't talk it seems. I couldn't think of a stupid name for the Dragonpit to mock it. I'm thinking The Armpit Summit. Looking for better names...
  5. Can't answer until I read it. I will be very disappointed if GRRM plays it as a mommy-porn book with Fabio on the cover would. I have no problem with them hooking up. I have a problem with how it was filmed. And for how D&D will smugly explain how edgy and ground breaking they are.
  6. 5 on the post season 4 scale. (reminder this is relative to all shows on TV for me, this is about as low as GOT goes) I might be being harsh, but I feel a certain level of expectations for a season finale. This was a mediocre episode 6 in other seasons, a complete let down for a finale. In earlier seasons this would have been a 9 or 10 episode. It was all about dialogue and intrigue. Sadly, now that dumb and dumber do almost all of the writing, they are unable to handle this on even a mediocre level. The treaty scene was fine and the best part of the episode. There was nothing great and tons of logical flaws, but it worked. However, in earlier seasons this would have been great. The Hound is (as usual) the MVP when he is given something to do. Tyrion v Cersei was embarrassingly bad. It depended on a sense of dread that no one believed was there. Heady did a fine job, Dinklage is clearly bored with the show at this point. He knows he is reading garbage and has checked out. The director should have his card pulled for how poorly that sequence was shot. Jaime and Tyrion's talk was such a throw away, it was obvious this wasn't their last talk. At least pretend one of these two is dying this episode and give them a send off worthy scene. Winterfell was so bad. It alone would have kept this episode from scoring an 8+. Where I gave the Fellowship of the Wight stuff last week a pass on the stupidity of their plan (I dinged Ep5 for it), this episode has to take the entire weight of the stupidity of all the Sansa/Arya/LF scenes for the whole season. Given a plot outline for this, ABC executives would have declared too juvenile for their after school specials and passed it on to their Saturday AM cartoon team. Maybe Snidley Whiplash would have been appropriate to play LF's role. As awful as it was, they could have at least given Sansa a moment of strength and growth. As Arya moves in for the kill, Sansa orders her to stop. "I am the Stark in Winterfell. Father would have swung the sword himself. I am going to do a terrible job of this (smile wickedly), but it my duty to do it." This whole plotline should have been resolved in Episode 1. Clearly D&D had no idea what to do with these characters so they wasted an entire season on this garbage. The wall falls! Everyone is shocked! It was CGI worthy of SYFY's good shows. Even the one bit of spectacle they gave us fell short. So undead dragons breath force? It wasn't melting, it wasn't making the wall so cold it became brittle and collapsed (how cool would that have looked?). People should never be shown riding dragons, they always look like Never Ending Story. If this show and it's budget can't do it, it should be perma-banned. Cersei's shocking turn!!!!! Thank god these two actors are still being professionals and reading these garbage lines like they are reading David Mamet. NCW deserves an EMMY for pulling this turd out of the toilet and selling it as a diamond. So what is Cersei's advantage. She is going to do EXACTLY what her enemies asked her to do. They will know instantly that she hasn't honored her agreement. Of course since her armies can teleport, I guess it won't be noticed that they aren't marching north. They are just waiting for the wizard to rest for eight hours. No one leaves with Jaime, not even Bronn? Aunt-F'er. So this is what they put on screen to meet their shock and edgy quota? A mommy-porn scene with a man and his aunt. If I want to see that I can just dial it up on YouPorn. Makes me wish they went back to genital warts and poop montages.
  7. You make very good points. However, part of the producer's job is to secure money for the production and D&D (for all of their faults) secured the rights to make the show from our lord and savior, GRRM. He had full control of the property and chose to give them full control. They then sold the idea to HBO and got a massive budget for season 1 and created a show which grew in fanbase (and thus money from HBO). They have earned that money per episode budget. It's not like they hopped on the train after it was rolling and derailed it. For an analogy, do people say the Patriots (and I say this as an Eagles fan) don't deserve their incredible run of success because they have Tom Brady? No, they drafted him fairly in a system where every other team could have drafted him. They did and they reap the rewards. As for your show, yes it's not fair in terms in terms of judging your ability as a filmmaker to D&D's. However, my rating is not my rating of them as filmakers. It's my rating of how entertaining I find the show. Period. In that rating system, the only true currency is my time and how I want to spend it. That being said, it's not like I have a hard number allocated for every category. If I did, they could never score a 9 as I would have more than 1 point allocated for writing and they would get almost no points there. They score so high in a few categories, it drags the low numbers up. Even with that, this show isn't even on my top ten for the season (TV year is from Sept-Aug) and several of the shows on that list are fairly low budget (only one is super cheap). If it matters, here they are. Blood Drive (super cheap), Legion, MST3k (used to be legendarily cheap, this season wasn't), Fargo, Better Call Saul, West World, Luke Cage (I watched it this year), GLOW, American Horror Sytory, Preacher All of that being said, I am not defending Dumb and Dumber. I hate what they have done with the show (and rip on them plenty) and this show has gone from something I always watched twice on release week and then rewatched with all the special features when the DVD came out to just another another show on my DVR. The only reason I watch it close to live is because I enjoy coming here and reading you guys ripping on it. If I'm honest with myself, I might not even watch it until the books were finished if not for these forums and my fear of book spoilers ruining my life for the next decade while I wait for GRRM to finish. Part of the reason you can see such a wide range of scores for the same episode (and this episode might have the highest standard deviation I've ever seen here) is because in addition to opinions on quality, there is no clearly defined criteria for what those numbers mean. Using my system, I think any person would be trolling if they gave this below a 5 (does anyone here think more than half of the truly garbage television episodes out there were better than this one?). However, they are likely using a different rating system, and their score is perfectly valid (regardless of what system they are using).
  8. A couple of times it's come up on these forums, asking how people give this episode such a high/low score. Quick answer for my 9, to put it in context. I get a feeling there are similar systems, so maybe this will provide a little clarity. I think of the 1-10 as percentile markers, so 9 means this episode falls between the 85th and 94th percentile of television episodes. On a scale of how much did I like it. I used to score GoT on it's own scale as it was the best show on television (by far) and basically every episode would be a 9 or 10. Once it became clear (season 5) that the show was no longer in it's own category and it shifted to the normal all episodes scale. So this 9, would likely have been a 6ish on the old scale. I rarely give any episode of a show I watch a 5 or below. There are a LOT of shows on TV. I assume the lower percentiles are filled with network dramas, sitcoms and other stuff I don't watch (because I wouldn't like it). If I show I watched started hitting low numbers, I would stop watching it. I like film making, so I give a lot of weight to things like production, acting and direction. The show still scores almost all 10's on production value. There has never been a show like this before in terms of production. I don't think this point is arguable (but hey... all opinions are). The acting score is still extremely high for a television show. It has gone down as some of the stronger actors are gone, and two of the weakest are now clearly the leads. The directing score is a little more up and down, but still well above average. Those scores support the other categories, where the show scores lower, though bad writing is ALL OVER television. This show's writing really only looks so bad when compared to earlier seasons. It was never as high as HBO's true writing masterpieces (Sopranos, Deadwood, The Wire), but it was competing for the best writing each year. In comparison to CBS procedurals and generic sitcoms, it still does ok. It just isn't on the playing field with the big boys now. So I think it you lined up every episode of television made this season, you'd only find 10-15% of them were better than this episode. It's just not what we used to have.
  9. 9, on the modified post-S4 scoring scale. It was nice to see them bring one of the old directors(Alan Taylor) back and he seemed to reign in the Dumb and Dumber brothers. It is still just a chain of Deus ex Dragon, and silly ignorance of logistic and logic. But it was very entertaining. I will nitpick in the thread... I really liked Maise William's performance, even if I have no idea what she is talking about half of the time. Was she the voice of the Sansa-hating fans? (I am one of them often). For such a young woman, she brought some serious menace to a silly scene. She must have taken notes from her season with Charles Dance. In that scene, it would have been nice if they gave Sansa a moment to make her more sympathetic and have a break down emotionally. As many awful things as she's had to endure, we've never seen her really feel it (she just keeps telling people how awful things were). That scene would have played so well if she just fell apart in front of her sister and even admitted to her worst crime (informing on Ned's plan to unseat Cersei). Arya just stares at her, completely unable to respond appropriately. Then hands her the dagger and walks out. Sansa fixes her appearance quickly, walks out and does some banal ruler thing. ("Make sure the stables are ready for Lord Manderly's visit or something"). I think this scene could have really helped win many us back to her side. We should be rooting for Sansa. Instead we got more stuff that plays like a high school soap opera. The Fellowship of the Wight (Snow Wight and the Seven Swords?) (The Council of Eastwatch?) was fun spectacle, though I was slightly bored because I was just waiting to see which 3rd teir character would die and then Super Dany would show up. I knew about the dragon getting wighted as a spoiler slipped through my SpoilerFireWall. (F*** YOU SPOILER PEOPLE, keep it to yourself!!! Though in this case, the former student who did it has agreed to buy the first round of beers the next soccer game we go to. Problem solved. The whole Game of Thrones thing would be very short if everyone settled grudges by buying beers at soccer games. "Dorne and Storm's End play a thrilling nil-nil draw. Rulers of Westeros are seen staggering out, but it seems we're back to peacetime. Join us next week when the Maesters of Oldtown will try to upset the Greyjoy Reavers.") For a brief moment, I actually believed the show was going to make a brave decision and return to it's subversive roots. After the dragon gets baptized, the camera pans down. Jon's corpse is laying lifeless on the lake floor. Cut back to the Army of Darkness, some nameless wight, accidentally kicks Longclaw into the icehole (maybe he disintegrates too). Longslaw is shown falling like Jaime in Ep4. It lands in the mud next to Jon. They both settle into the soft lakefloor, never to be seen again.
  10. legba11

    [Poll] How would you rate episode 705?

    Shows this year (TV year goes from Sept-Sept) which are better than GoT this year. Legion, Westworld, Fargo (RIP?), Luke Cage (that may have been last season, I watched it this year), Better Call Saul, American Horror Story, Scream Queens (RIP), GLOW, Mystery Science Theater 3000, Blood Drive, Powerless (RIP) Obviously, any question like that is opinion, and I think ratings like 0-2 are too harsh, also, as the show continues to do a few things very well. Production value, general strong acting (after the two leads), spectacle However, those people are just looking for other things (which the show doesn't do well at this point). Writing, character development, subversion of norms within genre My favorite GoT podcaster often describes the show as going from Sopranos in a fantasy setting to a Michael Bay movie. I this is a perfect description of the show's arc. That sounds harsh, but Michael Bay movies makes lots of money, so clearly a ton of people really like them. There is nothing wrong with Michael Bay movies. They aren't just what everyone is looking for, and there is going to backlash as the show has many fans who loved it's earlier version.
  11. legba11

    [Poll] How would you rate episode 705?

    Beat me to it. This prophecy was already thrown out the window when D&D thought it would be cool to Cersei and Catelyn bond of dead children.
  12. legba11

    [Poll] How would you rate episode 705?

    A very meh episode, 6. I have no complaints about there being no spectacle this week. Unfortunately, without spectacle we a left with a fairly dull reminder of how great this episode would have been several years ago when the writers cared enough to give us meaningful scenes and characters. So many of these scenes would have been good-great or at least entertaining in seasons 1-4. The Council of Elrond meeting in the prison of Eastwatch should have been a potential scene of the year. Several of our favorite characters meeting finally, some others with serious back stories to resolve. Davos's common man good nature vs The Hound's common man cynicism. The Hound tearing apart Jorah's hypocritical self-righteous knight's honor (we may still get that, I hope). Gendry/Davos confronting the BWB about their betrayal of Gendry. Instead, we got an ok scene that felt rushed and like we were being shoved onto a (hopefully great) ride by a tired teenage them park employee. I made a joke about Sam finding the thumb drive with the R+L wedding video. It was a joke... D&D have such rabbit ears in regards to forums like this complaining about their show. Davos's joke about Gendry still rowing has made that clear, if it wasn't already. Checking off the boxes of dropped plot points with ham-handed writing continues. WHY IS EVERYONE WEARING BLACK???? There was a woman with a Romulan haircut on the (brilliant, IMO) new comedy, The Guest Book, this week. I kept waiting for her to put on a team Cersei shirt. This show's crap has officially infected my brain. On the good side, there is a chance LittleFinger actually has something meaningful to justify his staying in Winterfell and to do before his death! White those scenes were (as has become the norm) written by a 12 year old, I enjoyed them. With a little more subtlety, they would have been great. LF still has some edge on Super Arya. I guess it's dreaming that all his idiocy will unravel and become a (sensible) master stroke, but at least I have a glimmer of hope. I enjoyed Bronn completely humiliating Larry. This would have made no sense with the book characters, but it made sense with these versions, and I enjoyed it. So Cersei knew Tyrion was in the castle, but she didn't grab him? After his meeting with Jaime if she wanted. Please tell me how that fits with her character.
  13. For time scale, we only have one solid indicator. Little Same was born early in S2, he appear about 18 months old in Ep7.1
  14. 9 on the modified post-season 4 scoring scale. This is the maximum grade allowed in this system as 10's only go for episodes which would have been 9 or 10 in the early season scoring system. This would have been an 8. Put aside things like logistics and deus ex machine (we will discuss that in the rant and rave), and this was a brilliant episode. Some dicey acting by our two leads, but I think the writers are aware of their limitations and generally put them in places where they will succeed. Jon especially is written in a way the plays to Harrington's limited ability. The iron bank was meh and a waste of two talents in a meaningless forced story. They should have just let this drop. The battle was spectacular. The best battle sequence they have done on the show. Other than the lousy Never Ending Story green screen flying closeups, Drogon looked great. They really showed the chaos and confusion of a battle and the terror that the Dothraki and a dragon would bring. The Bronn sequence was subpar CGI, but he sold it. I actually thought Jaime was going to buy it.
  15. The writers used that reason for this episode. In all previous episodes, the Tyrell army was a force. I guess the Tarly army was the only power. It's bad writing, but they go worse than that... often...
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