legba11

Or maybe people just find things entertaining differently than you. No need to insult people.

Yep, its explainable in several ways, though I think the most likely case is the writers didn't even consider it. It doesn't really matter, IMO. Similar to Catelyn not knowing that Cersei had a son who died last season. You can come up with explanations, but the simplest one is sloppy writing.

Ahh, i see you now, gotcha. I agree it conflicts with Ygritte, but she doesn't speak for all Wildlings. (Likely it was sloppy writing)

We'll see, i can visualize a fading Tyrion looking up, seeing Loras in the green armor (which we saw plenty of) and a stag helm (which we have not seen), and mumbling, "Renly?" as he passes out and the credits roll? I agree that they have not waved the armor in in our faces like Roz's nipples, but I would be surprised if they pass up on a moment like that. I've been wrong before, and will be again about the show. After the past two episodes, i have no idea what they're doing at this point, so...

The bay of wildfire seems quite plausible and really not much of a change. I think we will definitely see "Renly", though likely it will be Loras. Maybe as Tyrion's last image before he drops unconscious. Even possible as the last shot of the episode.

He clearly did not know. LF even tested his knowledge when he (LF) found it out with his comment about DaughterSSSS. I loved how Tywin/Arya ended. It was a meaningless arc (plotwise), but developed both characters better than Martin ever did. And it ended perfectly. After weeks of soulful conversations, clearly a bond forming, Tywin casually tosses Arya into the meat grinder because she serves no purpose for Tywin Lannister. That moment so perfectly defines his character. With 5 seconds of effort, he could have put her in a good position (working somewhere decent in Harranhal or even dispatching her with a couple of peon guards to Moat Caitlin for a small ransom, she is a Northern Highborn). But no, it's not worth that 5 seconds of effort, so he gives her to the worst human being on the planet. LF, however, did know who she is. He also knew Tywin did not know. I don't understand how he would leave Harrenhal without such a valuable commodity. It's like seeing a copy of Detective Comics #1 at a yard sale, and not paying the $2 they are asking for it. I understand that story-wise they can't let LF get her, because her story doesn't go that way, but we should have seen LF's plot to grab her get foiled.

I forgot to add my (killed the thread) post in Mk I. Have they just thrown LF knowing about Arya out the window? They have this great scene, with a significant plot development, and then it just disappears in a puff of smoke.

4/10, my lowest rating ever. A very dull, pointless episode. Big loss in points for replacing Weasel Soup with an incredibly bland escape from Harrenhal (I am still hoping Arya has to get her hands dirty in Ep10, it would lose more points if that is gone too). The two Robb/ Not-Jeyne scenes were just long, boring stories that had me looking for something to play with while I "watched" it. I have never done that on Game of Thrones before. There was still quality acting and a few of the scenes were good/great scenes, but NOTHING HAPPENED. And this is basically two weeks of nothing now that they hit the reset button on Bran in Winterfell. I can't believe we had to rush through Renly/Stannis to just through in two episodes where viewers would hardly need to see "What happened last week" if they missed them. This criticism goes right to D&D, they outline the season and they wrote these two subpar episodes. I hope they aren't becoming fatigued with the show.

I'm not sure what the difference between being captured and being corned with no way out by an opposing force is, but in the books, Quorin realizes they are going to get captured, the Wildlings had been pursuing them for days and they were quickly losing ground. He sends the really cool red shirt Ranger to take a sniper's perch and try to hold them off, while he and Jon flee. Once the sniper is taken, he realizes they will be caught, so he picks a cave to make their last stand (and enact his plan to save Jon) I'm not sure how Tyrion looks like a fool, Cersei is gloating over the trap she sprung on him, and it turns out she had fallen for his decoy. He plays it straight (otherwise it would be revealed as not his whore), and then delivers his killer mini-speech about ashes in her mouth. My non-book fiance said something like, "Go get her Tyrion!" after that scene. Funny how people see the same thing different ways (I don't mean that sarcastically, I find it interesting). I wanted to add (to my negative review of this episode) that one thing this season has done very well is display two of the things that really highlight how brilliant Martin's is writing in the novels. He takes two generic fantasy situations and twists them with real-world problems. Theon takes a major city with an absurdly small force and a great plan. This happens all the time in novels, but rarely do you get to see the aftermath of "What do you do now?" Theon is as trapped in Winterfell by his dual nature as Bran and Rickon are by their last names. He was raised as a Stark, and trained in military planning (Ned, could have done anything worse to set your kids up for failure? At least you trained Arya with a sword), yet his troops are Ironborn reavers, not soldiers. The show has done a great job of how this mix is not going to be successful. So what can Theon do now? His men simply want to take the loot, rape the women and burn it down. His training says, 'We're at war, we had the major control point of the region, we MUST hold it at all cost, including my own life. To leave it would disgrace me." This story has been a true highlight this season, more interesting than the books even (IMO) The second one is the classic "Big Clash". Stannis is about to attack KL. We don't like Stannis. He is not a good man/ Even this week, when he gives a very redeeming speech to Davos, he ends it being very unlikable. He is fighting Tyrion, who we all love. The best character on television right now. They could not have done more to make Tyrion more likable this week, adding sadly misplaced love to his resume. However, next week, who are we rooting for? Tyrion is fighting to keep Joffery, the shit-heel of all shit-heels, on the throne. I think this is why they have played up some Stannis's lesser qualities this season. (Plus it will make his face-turn more interesting next season)

Quorin gets caught by the Wildlings in the book. Heh, me a purist, I think I got the term rolling here :) I like most of the changes they make. I didn't like not having Weasel Soup because it was my favorite part of the books and it was replaced with a very bland escape scene. After weeks of some of the best television I've seen in years, Arya leaves Harrenhal with a whimper. (her death #3 scene with Jaquen was perfect to be fair) I watched the episode again with a non-reader. Rethoughts: It probably wasn't as bad as I first thought, but still the worst episode I can remember, and I don't think I'm moving off my 4/10. My mind had forgotten some of the better scenes. Theon and Yara was great and a perfect example of how to give a meaningful backstory. Such contrast to the drawn out, meaningless story told by Not-Jeyne. Stannis/ Davos was better than I credited it. Overall the problem still exists that this episode was pretty much meaningless filler. (and several of these filler moments were just awful scenes). What really happened in this episode? Two weeks of mostly filler and buildup. (Especially with the mediocre job done last week on the fake killing of BR). I don't understand how they can waste so much time in the series, when they don't have time for things which would be great to see. I can't think of anything which has happened in the past two episodes which couldn't have been simply cut or compressed into another episode. That's not to say I regret having watched them, there are still some scenes worth watching (more so last week than this week), but these episodes just seem such wastes when they seem to not have time for other things.

First Impression: I can't believe how negative I am about this episode. I have never scored any of them below a 6/10 (and my average score is like in the high 8's), this was a 4/10 and that may be generous. I am hoping I realize I am wrong after a second watching. Rattleshirt scene was ok, though he looked a bit cartoonish for the show. The scene was fine though. The Quorin/Jon setup was adequate, though only because I like what is coming. This storyline was basically wasted material this week. Where the hell is Ghost? Robb and Catelyn was excellent. One of two scenes worth watching. Sadly it led to Robb and not-Jeyne: For the first time in 18 episodes, i found myself wondering where my smartphone was so I could play a round of Draw Something while watching an episode. Boring beyond belief. I realize we haven't had sex on screen for a bit and HBO was probably going to fire people if a nipple wasn't seen soon; however this was so forced anf generic, I was reminded of The Matrix 2. Cersei and Tyrion was just more of the same, and I'm tired of it now. This is probably hurt by the fact I knew it would be Roz, and I don't care what happens to Roz. Not that I cared what happened to Shea in the books, either. Tyrion's reunion with Shae was forced and flat. Tyrion and Varys is the only other (Robb/Catelyn) thing wirth watxhing in this episode. Good enough scene. I am expecting the people who were holding out hope for a miracle chain scene disagree. Sam, Grenn and DE worked but really seemed thrown in randomly. I think there was a Dany/Jorah scene. I seriously can't remember it. I'm pretty sure she ordered him to go get her dragons last week. Why is he still there? Complete waste of time. Stannis/Davos was fine, though unremarkable. Compared to most of the rest of this episode, it was a pleasant relief from the drudgery. What an awful (on the GoT scale) episode.

I loved him as a villain in the books, I don't know if it would work on film though. He is going to sound like Daffy Duck. I hope they pull it off, I want to hear NCW say, "Maybe I just wanted to hear him say sapphires"

Back to Vatgo Hoat, he is central to the Jaime/Brienne story, which is (arguably) the main story of Book 3. I don't see them passing on such a colorful villain. Will he have the speech impendiment? Not sure.

I will be shocked if Hoat is cut, he may be pushed back to next season. Catelyn is not going to cut off Jaime's hand! All she cares about is getting her daughters back. Why would she mangle the package she wants to trade for them??? I'm assuming she doesn't want mangled daughters back.

I think Robb gave the duty of guarding Jaime to Karstark for a reason. Karstark was being uppity to his King, so he gave him a backhanded slap down with the "honor" of guarding Jaime. Also he likely wanted someone he could count on (Starks are sadly poor judges of the failings of others) to report back to him and important information Alton may pass on to Jaime.

Can we keep the discussion about the show, not personal battles?

My two non-readers are both skeptical but nervous enough to be bugging me for information.

6 I think this is the lowest rating I've given an episode since 3 or 4 last season. It wasn't bad television, but below the standards of this show. I found Ygritte (and her story with Jon) dull, generic and below the AAA level of Martin's writing in the books. I think the show has made the story line even less interesting. Could anything be more paint-by-numbers than the super hot, spitfire barbarian woman? I am more interested in the melting Iceland scenery than this storyline. Did we need three entire scenes of blueball jokes? Thankfully that part of the story is over and we will get to the good stuff now. Arya and Tywin is again the best part of the show. But the story went nowhere this week. Just them playing around. Kings Landing stuff was well done, but I am not all that interested in a girl getting his first period, despite the serious ramifications of it. Perhaps if I didn't want Sansa to have a miserable life with Joffery's demon spawn inside her I would be more interested in this. When you make a character very hard to like, having them play the damsel in distress is not all that captivating. (not a shot at the actress, she is excellent). Jaime returns! Woohoo! He was another highlight, both of his scenes were top notch. Theon is doing a great job as the tormented heel. That story line has only been matched by Arya's as consistently excellent this season. Dany's scenes were ok. Jorah continues to be 10x more interesting than he is in the books, and this storyline is a vast improvement over the second worst storyline in the 5 books so far. (That being Dany's in Book 2) (I won't say what is the worst, as it would be a spoiler for now).

Hodor

Tyrion's chain has to be a secret or it's not much of a trap. As I said, it's fine to gloss over these things in print because it's no big deal and it's a fun little scheme. However, when you put it to film, you see the massive undertaking this thing would be and it becomes silly. I looked up that Constantinople Chain (thanks btw, it was pretty cool). It's about 800m in length according to the map on Wikipedia (and it was floated for support). Again not close to the size that Tyrion's would have to be. But really, the reality of this isn't my main problem It's fantasy, dragons fly, warlocks get the Loki magic trick and guys who look like me get hot babes. My (expected) issue with it was going to be how it looked on film. Ships in battle are incredibly expensive to film, now add green fire (CGI can handle that). With the money they are dealing with, it's either going to be a cheap stage Prop (the 10 ft length/ Godzilla's hand prop), or a monster CGI shot which needs to interact with these expensive ships. If you had Peter Jackson's budget for The Hobbit, it would probably look cool. Here I think it wouldn't. Something like this isn't something you can half-ass.

We have no reason to think Tywin knows Arya is missing. Tyrion assumed they had her when he left Tywin and made a point of saying how he has not been in contact with them. LF threw out the tester when he talked about Catelyn's daughterS to see if Tywin knew and he gave no indication. Now Tywin could be playing his cards very close to his vest with LF, but there is no reason to think he knows she is missing.

The size is (by far) the biggest issue, thats what would make it absurd visually (and realistically, but that is a lesser issue). Especially combined with the secret installation and mid battle lift. And still on the South tower, this somehow unassailable tower, which is int he midst of enemies forces, with a MASSIVE chain trailing into the water, which no one cares about? (Other than Davos seeing them). I'm not trashing it in the books, it was kind of cool. But then i thought about what it would look like on film and I just can't see it looking anything but stupid and/or cheap (OH No Captain! That Chain has stopped us! *Cut to a a single shot of this monstrosity only seeing about 10 feet of it). For it to work on film, you have to see it go up, you have to see burning ships crashing into it. For that to be done properly would be a massive CGI undertaking which I don't think they could put into a TV budget.

Several differences in historical chains. The ones in the US (No idea about the one in Turkey) were used to block rivers. At thin points in the river. I've visited West Point and the area around 'The Great Chain". The river there is not very big, less than half a mile, and it was chosen because it would minimize the speed for boats hitting it (and supported by a wooden wall). All of that considered, it was still thought to be a deterrent at most and it would not stop a ship committed to breaking it. 1. Blackwater Bay is massive (at least it looks like it on the map), in the description of the battle, Davos describes many warships in a row going full speed. It has to be huge. 2. Tyrion's chain is secret. The mechanism to operate something like that would be absurdly massive and that prevents it from having any sort of support in the bay itself. 3. How exactly did that massive structure get built with no one noticing it? 4. Who is manning the South side support, which would have to be in the middle of Stannis's troops? It is one of those cool for fantasy things that would just look dumb if you saw it.

I mean the chain itself would look horrible. It makes no sense, and while you can get away with that in print, on film it's tough. More scenes with Tyrion scheming would be welcome here!

That look from Roose was him realizing that Robb is about to blow his Kinghood to pieces. He already knows Robb is honorable to the point of being very destructive (just like dad), and he see's Robb paying undue attention to this woman, and pushing aside his duties for her. He is a schemer and can put together pieces of a potential disaster and better start making plans in case it happens. Does he know he will marry her? No, but he sees him smitten and that he is putting her above his lords. Time to make preparations.