cybroleach

The way I see it the Lady Stoneheart, Jaime & Breanne love triangle can only be broken with one or more of their deaths.

GRRM also mention there was a big clue in a AFFC coincidentally the book where Brienne talks about said shield. So it's as confirmed as it can be without it being expliciately satated.

[quote name='The hairy bear' post='1607486' date='Dec 3 2008, 10.33']Sounds very, very good!! So, we should limit the casting for the pilot to the charachters appearing in the prologue + the fisrt 8 chapters. This limits it to[/quote] There should be a new casting thread made with your list here to suite D&D so there not going threw tons of Stannis/Renly and ect castings. called Prologue casting.

[quote name='Morrigan' post='1596361' date='Nov 21 2008, 10.30']What happens with plot points such as Sansa's flowering if she's older? Doesn't work anymore...[/quote] Maybe she's just a late bloomer now.

[quote name='aspasia' post='1581341' date='Nov 7 2008, 13.01']This issue had been nagging at the back of my mind throughout a recent re-read. Roose Bolton hardly ever says anything to indicate that he's working with his bastard son-- on the contrary he indicates that he hopes Ramsay Snow gets killed soon, to be replaced by legitimate heirs born of his new wife. Bolton says Ramsay Snow would be a danger to any new half-Frey sons. At the MOST it seems like Roose might be temporarily using Ramsay for managing matters up North while Dad is off South betraying Robb. How much of what Roose says to others about how he regards Ramsay ought to be taken seriously, I wonder?[/quote] I'd say not that much. Nothing Roose usually says is at face value, and when he says one thing it usually means two. IMO Roose seems quite fond of Ramsey. Now I'm not saying he'd loose sleep over Ramsay's death but he'd probably plot the murder of whoever he deemed killed him in his spare time afterwards. Look at all he's done for Ramsay raised him, gave him a loyal sevant"Reek",gave him that badass armour, allows him to go around calling himself Ramsay Bolton, gave him command of his garrison in his absence, gave him a wife and large lands. If we saw an exchage between the two we'd know more of thier dynamic and how much is using and if there's any real loyalty between the two. In any event i doubt either be happy if the other died unless their the one doing the killing. [quote name='aspasia' post='1581341' date='Nov 7 2008, 13.01']Another matter about which I wonder, and for which I was unable to pin down a satisfactory answer despite close attention on reread: WHEN exactly did Bolton decide to turn on Robb in favor of the Frey-Lannister alliance? Before or after the Freys did their dealw ith Tywin? How would Roose have known about it anyway? It seems to me as though Frey and Bolton would have hidden their respective bargaining with Tywin Lannister from one another, at least until both were sure the other was no longer likely to split on them to King Robb. As soon as Tywin was sure of one or the other, he could have used that fact to help persuade whichever of them had not yet committed to the betrayal; but it would have been a dicey piece of news to share with anyone who wasn't absolutely SURE not to ruin the surprise. Has anyone worked out a plausible timeline for when Bolton and Frey started to make their plans based on betraying Robb? [b]It's clearly a decision Bolton had already made by the time he takes over Harrenhal.[/b][/quote] I have a loose timeline sinario that I made awhile back. I'd say it was well after he took Harrenhal though. It when somthing like: Tywin defeats Stannis. Roose & Tywin start talking, Tywin & Lady Westerling start talking, Tywin & Walder start talking, Ramsay and Roose talk, Ramsay sacks Winterfell, Roose sends Glover and co to Duskendale, Roose leaves Manderly behind to be captured, The RW IMO one of the few honest things Roose says is when he thinks the war is lost after the battle of blackwater and didn't want to back that loosing horse. It may also be a coincidene, but when Roose left in that one seen to "go hunting for wolfskins." it is likely the exact moment he planed to switch side and was actually going send his letter that he was willing to betray Robb to Tywin.

[quote name='The Fat Man' post='1328578' date='Apr 24 2008, 18.08']It's entirely possible that Theon went with Ned and the Stark family to Karhold once or twice--hence the "always smiling" comment, although that could be from reptutation--but that doesn't mean that Arnolf would know Theon without the contextual clues.[/quote] Having a rep of always smiling? Is a little thin, i think which makes it more likely that he did travel to Karhold or Arnolf(since we're assuming it's him) was at some feast with Lord Rickard at Winterfell, but wouldn't you expect an old bald hunchback noble to stick out in Theon's mind.

[quote name='Bronn Stone' post='1327660' date='Apr 24 2008, 02.29'][i]He enters The Bastard sits in his fathers chair drinking from his father's cup, sharing the table with two older men looking like lords. One is gaunt with a white beard, wearing a jerkin of ragged, dirty bearskin, a byrnie even at the table. The second is thin also, but twisted, his eyes grey, his teeth yellow and his forked beard tangled and white. He's bald, but his cloak is fine and fastened with a silver clasp in the shape of a starburst. The second lord points out he smells like stale vomit and nightsoil and wonders why Ramsay inflicts him upon them whilst they eat. The first lord looks closely and notes that despite the weight loss and hair color, he is no serving man. The second lord then agrees and asks if it can be Stark's old ward, who always smiled.[/i][/quote] It's interesting that the 'second lord' seems to know Theon based on such a personalized comment, yet Theon has no recolection of the man.

[quote name='Ran' post='1328409' date='Apr 24 2008, 14.00']Harrion remains a captive in Maidenpool.[/quote] I'm pretty sure he's listed as such in AFFC Appx. Also Ser Halman Tallhart was killed there with them. Maia. Maybe sometime durring AFFC Tarly was nice enough to send Harrion along to Roose at the Twins, where he'd be a more valuable captive, but there's evidence.

[quote name='Ran' post='1328050' date='Apr 24 2008, 11.07']cybroleach, Ramsay was legitimized, but I don't recall Winterfell being given to him anywhere. He's to marry the recognized Lady of Winterfell, of course, and that was indicated as of ASoS... but the main thing we saw regarding him after the Red Wedding was that Tommen signed a declaration to legitimize Ramsay.[/quote] I'll have to recheck, perhaps I was mistaking his implied Lordship after his marriage rather than the actual one gotten before.

[quote name='grinachu' post='1327789' date='Apr 24 2008, 06.09']The only two surviving Karstarks we know of are Arnolf and Harrion. Harrion is described as a fierce young man with a beard, so we can rule him out (although I would love to know where he is..). As for whether it is a starburst or a sunburst, I think Bronn can just tell us that by looking at the chapter. I agree it would seem odd to introduce a new northern house at this point since the North seems pretty well peopled with lords already, but if the word "starburst" is used, I can only imagine it would be used deliberately.[/quote] That's not true Stannis tells us when he's making plans that Arnolf has many sons to succeed him as Lord of the North. Although, I wonder if any of these could be described as that old bald hunchbacks. About the Starburst it could be another personal emblum where this Karstark is their Darkstar or Blackfish. If it is Arnolf we have him playing both camps and he's betraying someone, Stannis attack on the Dredfort may have been a trap in itself lure his army there, have the Ramsay's might assembled already there then have the Karstarks stab him in the back and Stannis is traped in hostile territory on Bolton lands needing to cross their allies Umber and karstark to reach the safety of the wall.

[quote name='The Fat Man' post='1327967' date='Apr 24 2008, 10.12']Also, the most obvious reason to think that Ramsay is taking over Roose's position: he makes everybody call him Lord. His squires (Big and Little Walder), Reek, etc. People in Westeros don't just toss those titles around.[/quote] BUT Ramsay is a lord in his own right now over Winterfell it was gifted to him after the RW, so his title is not out of place.

[quote name='The Fat Man' post='1323118' date='Apr 21 2008, 15.28']I'm not sure I follow. The northern lords will forget that he's a notorious oathbreaker whose word can't be trusted, and that as a hostage he has every reason to lie (to save himself further torture), and give him any credence at all because... why, exactly? Because they've _heard_ of him? That's preposterous. In any case, the northern lords will publicly state that fake-Arya is the genuine article to the extent that it benefits them. The fate of Stannis' story about Joffrey should prove instructive: Olenna and Margaery know full well that Tommen is illegitimate, and that doesn't cause an annulment because it wouldn't serve Tyrell interests. They won't need the word of an oathbreaker to convince them to go along; the political situation as they understand will guide them one way or another..[/quote] I'd say it's kind of like Jon's "paper shield" are the Lannister going to take his word that he's not helping Stannis, No, but it IS a little insurence which is better than no insurence. And as you say those that it suits their political interest will eat this up regardless.

[quote name='The Fat Man' post='1322817' date='Apr 21 2008, 13.15']Benjen: Theon is well-known and infamous in the north [i]for being a betrayer and a turncloak whose oaths count for nothing[/i]. I wouldn't use John Walker Lindh as a reference at a job interview, and I wouldn't use Theon to give my realm legitimacy. I'm genuinely surprised that people can't see the problem here.[/quote] While Theon's word isn't in good standing with Northerners right now, certain things can't be disputed with using him: 1. They all know he is Theon Greyjoy 2. They all know that he would know Arya Stak 3. He says this girl is her No northern lord is going to know Kyra or Palla or _____ from the Winterfell staff it might as well be Ramsay's mom saying the girl is Arya and no one could tell. Sure they know Theon is scum and will see he's been tortured but having him add his word is likey a little better than no word or word from a nobody.

[quote name='Roi Woodt' post='1314858' date='Apr 15 2008, 09.33']What if the entire plan the Other somehow communicated to the horse is: "We go to the Wall", and then they encounter Sam. How can the Others change the plans for their Wights? Changing "Kill humans on the Fist" into "Kill humans near the Wall". Or if you read the prologue chapter, "kill Varamyr", into "kill the wolf he just went into..." etc. It looks like they have a way of changing their Wights plans.[/quote] The Horse is simple since the Other is riding it shouldn't be too hard to change orders on the fly. The orders at the fist could have just been to "kill all the NWmen there", that's why they follow NWmen after the first battle and keep killing them but like the TFM said I also believe they can handle some of the smaller tactical details. AND with Varamyr (unless the chapter was changed again since I saw it): we're seeing two different sets of wights one sent to kill him and does while the second are after Bran & Co where Varamyr's wolves just happen to be, thus they'd have different orders to begin with Bran himself being a warg the wights after him were likely supposed to kill his beasts thus seeing Varamyr in wolf might just be bad luck for him since they were already looking to kill wargs there.

[quote name='Roi Woodt' post='1310076' date='Apr 11 2008, 00.58']Aha, I didn't look at it this way, the Wights would know ofcourse, didn't think about that. But how do you think it worked then? The Others substracted the information and gave the wights the entire plan, or did they gave the Wights their goals and did the Wights figure out themselves how to do it? The problem I have mostly with this, is that the Others also wighted animals. And also people that were in their graves for a very long time. How do you give them clear instructions? How could anOther ride a horse?[/quote] I'd go with, more or less "the Others substracted the information and gave the wights the entire plan," since I dont see the wights as real plotters in the group just foot soldiers, I could see it going something like this Jafar and Othor gets wighted, the Others get a buch of info out of the two of them, they decied it be best to get in a quick attack on the NW leaders then decied that having the NW find the two dead rangers they're looking for is the least suspicous, give Jafar and Othor instructions to kill Mormont and Rykker quietly when they come to. Thus the Others came up with the general outline but the wights filled in the little blanks. I don't see how this makes it hard to control the animals either, an animal being wighted under this theory would have the same singular desire to please its master. Living thinking animals take instructions easy enough why would wighted ones be more difficult, it may alternatively be that the Others who I beleive can get info from their wights easily can also communicate with their wighted animals in the same manner although I'd gather there's not alot to be gained from a horses prior knowledge.

[quote name='Other-in-law' post='1307162' date='Apr 9 2008, 00.10']Butthe wights who are under Other-influence (ie: not Coldhands, who is clearly not Benjen at all, PotN!) are never seen to speak, if they are to be competent minions shouldn't they be able to convey any intelligence that they've acquired?[/quote] Either they lose their voices with being wighted or we just haven't seen them motivated to speek, they definately feel no pain so they never cry. As a minion they don't have any real desires of their own just to serve their masters so chatting about the weather or what have serves no purpose. Rather then them just being blank slates.

[quote name='Roi Woodt' post='1307202' date='Apr 9 2008, 01.11']About the intelligence of the Others: Why would it be so weird if the Others would know about their greatest enemy? That the watchers forgot about the Others, because they didn't encounter them for hundreds of years, the Others probably didn't forget. They have planned this attack, wouldn't it be wise to gather information somehow. It weren't secrets that those two were the highest in command, they had lots of years to figure out the Nightwatch, I think they are very capable.[/quote] Where does this intel come from do they have spies in the watch? Do they torture their victoms? Do they sneek into Castle Black in the middle of the night to find out its layout? I pretty sure not. Thus it comes from the wights. [quote name='Roi Woodt' post='1307202' date='Apr 9 2008, 01.11']It's luck that they weren't burned instantaniously, that they were brought to the other side of the Wall and that they could escape so easily to try to kill their "programmed" victims. It's partly the same luck as is needed if it wasn't all planned, except the luck is different. In the first scenario everything is planned beforehand, and they got the luck they wanted. In the seconds case, they didn't have to plan anything, but when the possibility was there, they took it and tried to kill the highest rank Watchers.[/quote] There no luck required here. Jafar and Othor already know their not going to be burned on site because they haven't seen the NW burn anyone their entire service. And they know that being former NW men who died where their bodies would be taken until their burried back on the other side of the wall, and escape what being an unguarded corpse placed in storage? All of these are details the the two wights would have at their disposal.

I really dont see why we need to jump to the Others being wargs with the wights there's nothing to suggest this and there's that whole wall=/=warging issue. Jafar and Othor: 1. two rangers being looked for 2. were right near Castle Black 3. stealthy went right after Lord Moromont and Ser Rykker (the two sr personel at the Wall) 3pts proves a line. This was no act of chance they were on a mission that was 50% sucessful. From this whole sinario they appear to me more or less minions now who follow the Other cause yet retain their prevous knowledge.

[quote name='The Fat Man' post='1294224' date='Mar 30 2008, 23.27']According to the Davos spoiler chapter, Davos was sent to White Harbor to treat with the Manderlys. (This is indeed where he ends up too, if Manderly can be believed.)[/quote] We don't need to question Manderly Davos II (located in the same thread) tells us he arrives safely in White Harbour.

[quote name='Loras' post='1295716' date='Apr 1 2008, 03.48']What I think may be more significant is the fact that Pyp was present when Jon confronted Thorne, we have seen in Sam I (AFfC) that Pyp is disgruntled with Lord Snow and I think this is going to push him even further. I have a theory that Pyp will teach Jon that he needs to retain some kind of humanity as the book progresses.[/quote] I'm more inclined to think Pyp (and Grenn) will pose a serious threat to Jon later on because of this I see them as the "smiling friends" Mel was warning him about. Since I doubt they've displayed any ill will towards him personally but when he's not around their having breakfast with Janos. The way i see it hanging Janos is a statement to the other black brothers if anyone wants to challenge Jon's authority there's a reminder hanging from the wall for all to see, while after his beheading they'd have gotten rid of the body and some ppl might forget. It's interesting that Jon throws Janos' own words back at him "giving him one last chance" where Jon wisely took his chance Janos did not. Thorne I really don't think is the evil guy Jon makes him out to be he's an ass and hangs out with scum but I don't see him as the type to really betray people. Even when he saw Janos getting taken he seems to be the only one with thoughts of standing by Janos, then he cowers because he must have reasoned Jon is a better sword or that no one else was standing with him against Jon's 7. I expect him to continue to 'tow the line' calling Jon boy and muttering how he shouldnt be LC but doing as Jon tells him. And about Jon ordering arond King's Men didn't Jon get permission from Stannis back when they were discussing the empt castles in Jon 1.