TamTam Rapley

This battle will be so epic. It's already the slaver's vs. barristans army and the iron born are pulling up in the harbor. The volantene fleet is right behind them. Dany and Drogon have a dothraki khalasar 20K deep and there are 2 other dragons on the loose. I can't even imagine what will happen and who will die!?!?

To be fair, I doubt the Volantene fleet is right behind them. At least several days out. The Ironborn passed Volantis, and at the time the Volantene people were still partying and hadn't shipped off to Slaver's Bay yet. Furthermore, with such a large force of ships (300), holding the fleet together would take a lot longer, whereas Victarion had a much smaller fleet. After that storm, the Volantene's would have taken much longer to link up. Moreover, the Volantene's have all the time in the world to arrive at Slaver's Bay, unlike the Ironborn who have to race to get there and out before the Volantene's arrive. Chances are, after the battle, the Ironborn leave immediately to slip past the Volantene's or they stay and join a plan to raze and capture the oncoming vessels when they arrive.

the only thing he does that I think is dumb, is how he thinks of Euron. In my mind he should either follow Euron's orders even though that has not gotten him anything good in the past, or he should revolt against Euron. But instead he does a little of both, much like Freddo Corleone who stays with Michael and his family but still does wrong by them and almost gets Michael and His wife shot to pieces in their lovely home in the Sierra nevada mountains. Victarion is sent to bring back a dragon queen for Euron, but instead he decides half way there to take the bride for himself because of the past between him, his dead wife and Euron..

TO me that shows that he is Lost and doesn't really know what his purpose is in slaver's bay. And if he is trying to win Dany over to his side, does he think she will come willingly after he blows his horn? maybe he thinks it will tame the dragons and she will go wherever her Dragons go. No matter what reason he thinks he is there for, he is stupid, because Dany is not the kind of woman some pirate just takes with him. She is not going to go willingly and she is definitely not going to take kindly to someone trying to steal her dragons.

Best case scenario he is able to sneak in and steal Dany somehow and blows the horn and is able to control the dragons......then what?? Does he plan to just take them back and hand them to Euron? Since he has done everything else Euron has requested why wouldnt he carry out the whole plan and take her and the dragons back to Euron?

But from his POV we learn that he wants it all for himself and that is what is dumb! He is becoming greedy and feeling like he has not been given his due, (another Parallel to Freddo) but history shows that it does not end well for a greedy little brother who is not only going against his family and his brother who is now the King of the Iron islands, but he is going against what he knows is right.

All in all his trip to capture dany is going to serve nothing except to make her even more wary of westeros and the ppl who live there and possibly to give someone in Slaver's Bay a lot of ships.

Becoming greedy? He served his brother (Balon) his entire lifeas a dutiful admiral. His other brother (Euron) raped his wife, and you're calling Victarion greedy for planning to screw over Euron? I'm sure Euron expects Vic to follow his orders to the letter because Victarion has always acted as the follower, past behaviour does tend to be the best predictator of future behaviour so it isn't out the realm of reason for Euron to believe this. Why did Victarion choose now to disobey? Look at the chapter names, he's the "reaver," "captain," "suitor," and finally Victarion. I believe that indicates that he is now his own person, rather than a role decided by that of his brothers. He's come to the realization that his wants and needs are important as well as possible thanks to Morquorro.

Victarion comes across as not being that bright in a couple of spots, but the part that really made me think he was dumb was when it talked about how laughter makes him uncomfortable because he always was afraid people were making fun of him but he didn't understand why or how. He's not a clever guy.

To be socially awkward is to be dumb now?

To be fair, he's leading his ships in a highly unusual environment. He shouldn't be expected to know every little detail of the land, especially the plains, since he is a sailor going to a port city afterall. He's going to Mereen to save his Queen and then straight back to Westeros. Why should he worry about what's on the map after Slaver's Bay?

to everyone saying Victarion is dumb....in his chapters in many places he seems to have been pretty smart in how he took his fleet or 99 ships across the Narrow Sea..on page 813 of ADWD it even says he is not coward, nor is he a fool when taking about how he is going to try to hurry and beat the Voltantenese ships he has seen making preparations to sail to Meeren....beat them to Dany and hurry and leave before they ALL get there.

It seems he is a pretty competent sailor and commander/strategist. His problem IMO is that he isn't dumb (just the opposite) , he is feels duty-bound to his brother and the Drowned God....by which is hands are tied in many ways as a result. ( Unless you want to argue that religion/religious people are dumb....but that is not something I am going to comment on, nor is this the place for it)

But in a world where some people follow rules (whatever they are) and other don't....

as to the comments about how he mistrusts laughter...because he thinks he might be the butt of some jape...I just think he has brother/family issues. I don't think he is dumb at all...he is just effed up in the head after a lifetime of eating shit as a dutiful younger brother.

Agreed. I think GRRM certainly does Victarion a disservice when he called him "dumb as a stump." His writing indicated in no way to me that this was the case. You don't put someone incompetent of a top tier fleet; its been noted by every Ironborn that only Victarion has what it takes to command it properly. His tactical skills can be easily shown is his voyage east and through the capture of enemy ships. Hell, his handling of religious issues is even genius. Setting a situation where the sacrifices both burn and drown? Look at the results, it certainly worked because it cannot be no coincidence that a wind instantly picked up, while also moving in the most favourable direction.

Personally, I hope Victarion survives the battle and becomes a dragon rider for either Rhaegal or Viserion (however briefly), but the long game doesn't look for him since the POV characters are due to be shortened down.

Guys just be glad this show didn't turn out to be like Camelot or the Borgias. It has a larger budget than either of those shows, and $10 million was spent on the pilot alone. The only two HBO shows I can think of that had a larger budget was BoB and the pacific, and those two were miniseries.

Camelot is just atrocious, but the Borgias is quite good and managed a decent battle battle scene in spite of the budget. And Rome and Boardwalk Empire both have larger budgets then GoT. The pilot for BE was 18 million alone.

All that noise, and you don't address my point. What a surprise.

You wanted the show to do what the book did, and it didn't. That's the beginning and end of your complaint, and it is rooted in fanboy-ism and irrespective of the quality of the show itself. Therefore your complaints "as a paying customer" amount to nothing but petty, childish whining. The question was "How would you rate the show?" not "how closely did the show follow the book?" The battle might have lessened the quality of the show, for all we know, so to say that the show was somehow lacking without it is silly. So take some of your own advice and "Just live with it"

The show was fine without the battle. It left more time for what the series is really about--the characters.

I've rated the show, if you cared enough to read the earlier pages you would see that. And yeah, the show is lacking without battles. We have 8 episodes of build up for a battle between Starks and Lannisters. Then it happens off-camera. Is that not a legitimate enough gripe?

I don't see much substance added to a story or character in any of the battles that they could have (or could have not: $$) added to the episode, the desire for this seems masturbatory. Martin's characters are so complex and go through so much as a result of war. War's consequences seem to be more important than the heat-of-the-moment action scenes. That's a lust that can be sated with practically any old hollywood film nowadays.

Considering also the logistical inefficiency of using precious air time to show something easily glossed over in so complex a story. Getting to know about Tyrion and Tysha was more important than watching Jaime's sword go back and forth with the redundancy of watching leaves fall off of a tree. In the end one can infer the tree lost it's leaves and that Jaime lost the battle. Though GRRM writes suspenseful action sequences, imho that's not what makes him particularly special.

I think the episode stayed fairly true to the spirit of the books. Such a monumental story was deftly handled and I say deserves a 10. As GRRM shows, one can be emotionally pulled to the edge of one's seat, without falling to the sating of a lust. The best one to date I think...

Also... did Martin himself actually show the Battle of the Whispering Wood? It's been awhile but I don't actually remember a firsthand account from the books so it seems strange to me to expect the show to spent massive time and money on it.

The show is a visual medium whereas the books are a collection of third person povs. Robb wasn't a pov in the books but in the show he happens to be far more important because we're actually seeing his actions compared to hearing about from Bran's or Catelyn's pov. Point is, it's redundant for the show to be follow a pov arc during battle scenes because the drama of the show isn't pov centric but rather shows us everything in an ominiscient manner. For example, the show isn't pov centric like the books because we get additional scenes of other characters i.e Littlefinger, Joffrey, Cersei, Varys, Loras, Renly etc.

Sigh. More nitpicking nonsense based on things they didn't do just like the book. Juvenile nonsense, I swear to the Seven.

The episode was a ten. All the episode have been watchable, several have been very good, but this one was the first great episode in the Game of Thrones series. Without question. The final scene was beyond thrilling, and Sean Bean breathed life into a moment which, in the book, was outside of Ned's head. He died confused and terrified, but ever the good soldier. We didn't get a sense of that in the books, but we definitely got it here.

Great scene, great episode. Tyrion's backstory was so well done, but the drinking game was maybe even better. Such examination of character, such great acting by Jerome and Peter.

Stop whining that they didn't do a battle a certain way. Just stop it.

They didn't do a battle period. And condemning the condemners, way to take the high road. As a paying customer, I can complain all I want. If this was free, then yes I would have no grounds but it's not. So just live with it.

The boards will just have to muddle on without contributions of this level of quality.

While we are at it, we must condemn that worthless good-for-nothing bastard Shakespeare. How dare he tell the story of Henry V without actually showing Agincourt. I feel robbed. If he actually existed and if not for the fact he's been dead for 500+ years, I'd kick him in the trousers.

Ah yes, comparing a play written hundreds of years ago, while being performed in a theatre is an entirely valid comparison to a live action television series. That type of reasoning is a great contribution to the level of quality and analysis on these boards. Bravo sir!

As a viewer, I have to wonder. If they can't even show small scale engagements, like The Whispering Woods, which could of been done relatively cheap with it being dark and all. How will they show Blackwater, the Wall, the fist, Mereen, Yunkai, and Astapor? I would even settle for low budget, close up, and thick in the fighting battle scenes instead of the gorgeous sweeping shots of massive armies we deserve. Instead, we recieve non-existent battle scenes.

Long time lurker, first time poster. I joined specifically to post my displeasure with this episode. 1/10. I'm never watching this show again. They butcher two important and relatively small scale battles compared to the future battles in the series. If they're gonna do this to small scale battles then I might as well quit watching right now because I don't want to watch a terrible Blackwater episode. I might as well not set myself up for disapointment. I didn't even get to enjoy Ned's death because I was fuming about that the fact that I got screwed out of two major battles. I can't believe they pulled a Rome on me. This is even worse then when they had a seven episode build-up of a fight between Pompey and Caesar and then just show the aftermath. You just lost yourself a viewer HBO.

EDIT: Thanks for the useless time wasting Tyrion "guess what" scene.