Jump to content

chrisdaw

Members
  • Content count

    4,598
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Everything posted by chrisdaw

  1. chrisdaw

    Dany's Arc

    You're not seeing what Euron is, or rather what he shows to the world. The smiling eye GRRM calls it in universe. Daario is Euron-lite. Euron is the Marc Antony of Westeros, he is the most charming and most attractive. He had his brother killed and sails in the next day. This would be ridiculous for anyone else to even try, but he's Euron, he's that bold, and not only do they not kill him, but he wins them over. He is the fire set against the mud that Barristan talks of. Euron is why this passage exists. Dany's whole ADWD arc, the competition in her mind of the floppy ears against her instincts of fire and blood is set up for Euron. Her turn to Fire and Blood at the end of ADWD signals the turn towards Euron. And of course Euron is this, Grouped with Drogo and Jon. Bride of fire. The implication is plain, to deny it is to deny what the text is giving you for projections of your own.
  2. chrisdaw

    Dany's Arc

    This is Dany's arc to come. When Dany chose to jump into the pits to save Drogon she chose an arc of fire and blood. Dany will lead and be lead by her wills and wants. She will don no floppy ears no more, for no-one, including Westeros. Dany will consolidate the Dothraki and rip west over Essos. What she isn't there for personally will be taken in her name by others. Victarion will be her commander at sea. Barry will live and be her man. Jorah will be forgiven and accepted back into her graces. By the time they hit the west coast Tyrion will ride Viserion and seem to be her man. Much of Volantis will fall in behind her, including Benerro and his Fiery Hand. But by the time she gets to the coast, most likely Pentos, Aegon will either rule Westeros with the backing of the Faith, or be their man but yet to be crowned. Aegon's existence is primarily to be a foil for Dany and her madness arc. At some point Dany will come to believe Aegon is false, most likely through the Tattered Prince story thread leading into Pentos history and Illyrio's history. Maybe after she arrives in Westeros, perhaps Aegon and her are at first strained friends and forces and individuals push them to war. But the how doesn't particularly matter. Dany will believe Aegon is false and that will be enough for her to make war with him, and so will begin the second dance of dragons. Aegon will come to ride Rhaegal. How he will do so I am not sure, perhaps she will give the dragon to him before she comes to believe he is false, perhaps through some form of treachery Illyrio or another sympathetic party will get the dragon to Aegon. A dance with dragons needs dragons on both sides, and the first was between the greens and blacks. Dany's war on Aegon will plunge the realm into chaos. Aegon will be well loved and well backed, particularly by the faith, but he will be married to Arianne and so have Dorne and will also gain the Reach. Dany will come to be hated by most the realm. Among other reasons she will be hated because she will have brought a force of savage dothraki (though not the prophesised united Khalasar) and worshippers of the Red God and many other gods. Because she will lead and rule savagely, merciless and with fire and blood. And because she will ally with the Ironborn and shack up with Euron. From Dany's perspective Euron will be another Daario, just better and with much more to offer. Tyrion, significant because he will ride Viserion and so seemingly be able to tip the balance of power, will largely sit out the war, as did Tywin in Robert's Rebellion Tyrion will wait until it is clear which side will win. Dany will win, she'll kill Aegon and most likely Rhaegal will die too, if not it will be injured. By the time she has won most the realm will hate Dany, especially the Faith. She will take control of KL. Dany will miscarry Euron's child. Unable to get the child he wants from Dany, Euron will betray her and turn to the widowed Arianne, the next best Targaryen blooded womb in the kingdom. Arianne will likely be a hostage in KL at the time, she will have gresyscale and so too will Euron after bedding her. Euron's turn from Dany to Arianne will be the treason for blood. Euron will successfully beget a child on Arianne, and he will sacrifice it and himself by way of his horn and successfully second life Drogon. The result will be Drogon begins to gradually turn to stone, the fire he breathes becomes greyscale, and his form becomes a monstrous kraken/dragon hybrid. Eventually it will no longer allow Dany to be its master. Dany will come to understand what happened to Drogon and believe she will be able to fix him with a sacrifice of her own child, but that the sacrifice must have good pure dragon blood and so she will require a worthy father. So she will get pregnant by Aurane Waters for his old Valyrian blood, but will miscarry his child too. She will then get pregnant by Tyrion, as he will be riding a dragon he will be presumed a Targaryen bastard. Dany will miscarry his child too. In KL the High Septon will refuse to crown her. The High Septon will die, and even if it isn't by Dany's hand she will get the blame for having murdered him. Dany will gain Jaime as a prisoner, perhaps by Tyrion handing him to her to buy his way into her good graces. For the crime of murdering her father Dany will sentence Jaime to death in the dragon pit, but during his trial he will explain why he did the deed. Many will lose faith in Dany and abandon her. The realm will say she's mad, truly her father's daughter, that she brought them the terrors of war and dragons, that she's godless or follows demon gods, that she's a whore who takes lovers and tries to steal their souls. But mostly they will say she is ruled by a thirst for power, a tyrant who killed her brother Aegon for his throne. The people of KL will revolt against her, and storm the dragon pit. Armed only in his faith Lancel will successfully save Jaime. The people of KL will force Dany to flee the city. With what little forces remain to her and dragonless, Dany will head to the north driven by prophecy. There she will find Jon and come to believe he is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna and the rightful Targaryen heir to the throne. This will cause her an internal dilemma. She will have justified her war against Aegon both publicly and internally on the basis that Aegon is a fake. Thus she must submit to a very real Jon or prove everyone who says she is a mad queen who simply lusted for power correct. She'll submit to Jon, letting go of her desire to rule the Seven Kingdoms, and by doing so prove herself not to be a mad Targaryen like her father. Putting the throne behind her will leave Dany with need of a new mission. While in the north she's going to learn about the Others, and this is going to have a massive impact upon her. She will have destroyed Rhaegal in the dance. And she will have known Euron was not trustworthy, and a cunt, but will have taken him into her confidence and bedded him anyway, leading to the loss of Drogon. Two weapons that could have been used to fight the Others and save the realm, lost, because of her. The last dragon will be Tyrion's and not within her power, and Tyrion won't be coming to help. Having found the true purpose of the dragons, the need for Dany to fix Drogon will now be even greater, and in Jon she will have found the answer to her problem. The son of her brother, strong Targaryen blood, dragon blood. And so like she did with Aurane and Tyrion before she will seek to get pregnant by Jon. There will however be a problem, Jon will not like Dany much. Jon will have been up on the wall or in the north crying to the south for help. For their dragons. He may have even managed a pact with Aegon, that Aegon would fly and come help when the Others come. Instead Dany eventually came, fleeing, with fuck all forces left and no dragons. She lost them in selfish endeavours. Jon will refuse to bed Dany. But Dany is no quitter, especially with the whole world to save. She is at heart a saviour, the interventionalist, she can't sit on her hands while people die and suffer. Blood lines, prophesies and sacrifices will not be convincing to Jon, but there will be someone in the north to whom it will all make sense, Melisandre. Mel will understand what Dany means and Mel knows Jon's heart. Mel will glamour Dany to look like Ygritte, and in disguise Dany will make like a wildling and steal Jon, pluck the blue rose of Winterfell. Tyrion will sit the Iron Throne in the south and will refuse Jon's pleas for help in the north. Tyrion will view KITN Jon as a traitor, a rebel who has divided his realm. He will think the Others are fantasy, a ruse to lure Tyrion north. And Tyrion will have a load of his own problems in the south. As a consequence of the refusal of the south to help, Jon will be preparing to march south. He will intend to treat with Tyrion face to face, to earn the help of his dragon and the united realm, or if he must, defeat Tyrion and unite the realm himself. A newly pregnant Dany will follow with Jon. Having become pregnant Dany will need to find Drogon, or what he has now become. Drogon will have become more sea creature and stone and ended up at the bottom of the ocean near Dragonstone. Under the ocean the stone of Drogon will have formed a maze and at the centre will be a black oily stone, at which a humanoid Euron will sit a throne, attended by all those who breathed the greyscale of the Stone Beast. By sacrificing his follower's un/newlyborn children to the stone Euron will produce beasts, sphinxes under his control. There he will be creating an enslaved stone army with the intention of rising from the ocean and conquering Westeros. Jon will win his way south, unfortunately his forces will kill Viserion along the way as Tyrion will refuse any useful compromise. Now pregnant Dany knows she is the only hope for a dragon. Somehow, probably more prophecy than anything else, she will learn the whereabouts of Drogon/black oily stone/Euron. Dragonstone will go boom, a second Doom like that of Valyrian, if not an unintended consequence of Bran's magic then perhaps Euron's. The mountains will explode and fall like leaves and the narrow sea will empty. Elsewhere the Others will have entered the south, moving beneath the wings of an ice dragon, and the people of KL will have fled into the dried out seabed, there they will be preparing a last stand. A now heavily pregnant Dany accompanied by only a few loyalists will head to Dragonstone, and then to the stone maze in the dried out sea. The maze will resemble those of the Patternmaker's Maze and Asshai, and will have beasts they need avoid or fight. They will not make it to the centre of the maze before Dany begins to give birth, under the smoke of an erupting dragonstone and in the salt of the dried out seabed. When she does Jon will arrive, also with a handful of loyalists. Knowing what Dany intended to do with his unborn bastard child, Jon will have decided to leave the war for the dawn to stop her. Jon's men will defeat Dany's, and Dany will give birth to a baby girl. Jon will take his daughter and give it to one of the surviving combatants, and execute Dany for her intention to kill the child. When he does his sword will take flame. Dany will have been wrong. She will have believed she needed to sacrifice her child to wake the dragon from stone. She will have been wrong not because a sacrifice is not required, but because the role of the sacrifice will have already been fulfilled by Rhaego. She will not need to do it again as Rhaego's soul will exist already within the black oily stone. Dany's soul will leave her body, fly over the maze to its centre, and down into the black oily stone. Her soul will transform the stone in her image. As bright as the Khal burned in life, so too shall they burn in the afterlife. The black oily stone will take fire and the stone of the maze will melt and take the form of a black dragon, reflecting Dany's life and so the power of her soul, the dragon will be the size of Balerion with its fire as hot. Within the dragon Dany will expel Euron's, Arianne's and their child's souls by fire, and reunite with Drogo and Rhaego. She will release the souls of all those Euron controls and allow those souls she would to enter the dragon with her, granting an afterlife to all those who have died in her name. Jon will mount the dragon that is Dany, and she will allow him. In her final moments she will have come to understand Jon was right to execute her for trying to sacrifice the child, as that's what kings are for, to do justice and protect those who can not protect themselves. They will fly into combat with the ice dragon, Dany's fire burning a path to its blue crystal eye where Jon will stick his flaming sword. The ice dragon will perish, melt away, its wings no longer sheltering the Others below from the dawn, causing them all to melt away too. With Euron and the Others melted, the black dragon will simply fly away, riderless and never to be seen again.
  3. chrisdaw

    Seeing the bigger bigger picture.

    It is a very good question to ask. In a Song of Ice and Fire the ice and fire are representative of what drives one's decision making. Ice represents decision making based upon cold hard calculation, free from emotion. One might say heartless decisions, or to use an in-world term, the heart of winter. An example would be Varys's stated logic at Robert's small council by which he argued for Dany's assassination. Fire represents decisions made of passion, one may say made by the heart in spite of the brain. The fiery heart. An example would be Jon's decision to send Mance to save 'Arya'. Another would be Dany's decision to embrace the sick. A song is formed by both passion and order. It is a whole thing made up of multiple individual parts. In making a song of ice and fire GRRM is making an argument that a combination of both forms of decision making is optimal, in moderation and balance with the other.
  4. chrisdaw

    Why did the project fail?

    Pretty simple, doesn't take much explaining. D&D just didn't understand the series and didn't care for it when it was explained. Like Mace on having a grandson king they got off on the idea of being responsible for shocking everyone with the Red Wedding. That was their attraction to doing the adaption, and after that they just wanted off the train as soon as could reasonably be done without jeopardising their careers and turning the internet against them.
  5. chrisdaw

    GRRM struggling how to show Daenerys' mental instability

    It is the question of her arc, it must be asked and answered. Her madness will manifest itself as her being mistrustful and tyrannical. Take cues from Tyrion's speech to Faegon about trusting no-one, and Maegor for tyranny, as those are what Dany is going to be perceived as. It will hinge most prominently on her having killed Aegon. The people will call her mad and after she has won the throne by killing Aegon they will remove her by popular revolt. But it isn't in the population's minds that the question needs be answered, it's a question for Dany herself. Did she kill Aegon because she wanted the IT for herself, or because he's an imposter? If she truly cared for the people should she have not left a well loved, capable, uniting young king alone to rule the realm? Enter Jon, and a chance for Dany to make amends, and prove to herself at least that she's not what they believed her to be.
  6. chrisdaw

    Summerhall tragedy - new theory

    Yes there's a lot to go for Egg's development, however I would still expect something in the way of signalling he would be willing to go to extreme lengths or trend in some way instability. All the main character arcs are signalled in their first couple of chapters, young or old, it's just how GRRM writes, and I see no seeding for this sort of thing at all.
  7. chrisdaw

    Summerhall tragedy - new theory

    Ok it's a possibility but I don't believe so as I see nothing to suggest a willingness for child sacrifice in Egg's character, and if this were the case I believe GRRM would have signalled it somewhere. In does run well with what we are given of Shiera and somewhat Bloodraven however.
  8. chrisdaw

    Summerhall tragedy - new theory

    Probably, but it's wrong. It will not have been Egg. It will have been done by sabotage in secret because Egg would never allow it, even though the saboteur was right and such a sacrifice is what was needed.
  9. chrisdaw

    Is Young Griffs invasion filler?

    Only that everything makes sense that way. On the other hand you can't point to anything in the text suggesting they would make Viserys king of Westeros, and that line of thinking also makes no sense out of a bunch of shit.
  10. chrisdaw

    Is Young Griffs invasion filler?

    No I'm not wrong. It is exactly as I said, you're implying what isn't in the text and what causes the text to make no sense. He says the plan was to join with Viserys and his dothraki, not that they ever meant to crown Viserys. It is not at all implied there would be no Aegon in this scenario, the GC leaders don't need to say it's all for the purpose of crowning Aegon because that's just a given to them. And everything fits. In contrast for there to have been a plan with no Aegon but to crown Viserys makes a contradictory mess out of Illyrio and Varys. Viserys is known as the beggar king, that's meaningless.
  11. chrisdaw

    Is Young Griffs invasion filler?

    Nowhere does the text state the GC ever intended to crown Viserys or that they were ever for anyone other than Aegon. It is clear they knew about Aegon and that they intend to crown him. That if they were always for Aegon then there should have been a plan to sweep in after the dothraki ran amok over Westeros is a complete nonsense.
  12. chrisdaw

    Is Young Griffs invasion filler?

    No one shouldn't expect that because it's a nonsensical theory completely plucked out of the air without any grounding in the text, at all. That the GC were to join with Viserys and the dothraki he would be heading does not imply they intended to sit Viserys on the throne, ever.
  13. chrisdaw

    Is Young Griffs invasion filler?

    Euron isn't much related to Aegon. He will be Dany's mate, until she miscarriages his child, then he will move onto (a widowed) Arianne and use her child as sacrifice to successfully second life Drogon. His soul within Drogon will wrestle control of the dragon from Drogo, and Drogon will become the stone beast that breathes an infectious greyscale.
  14. chrisdaw

    Rickon is destined to be new Lord of Winterfell

    There's nothing to really even address in what you've all written. She-wolves and Starks must fight the Others, it's just pure projection without any direction taken from what the text has provided.
  15. chrisdaw

    Rickon is destined to be new Lord of Winterfell

    She's responded to Cersei by channelling her. She responds to LF by taking on board his direction and teachings. That's what Sansa does, she's a parrot, she watches and listens, learns, recites. That's why she's a fast learner. That's why she's been under the power of Cersei and LF, with a front row seat to Marge. She has unwittingly learnt the game of thrones, and now she will play it. That's the arc. That's what the character was created to explore. She will be graduating from the Vale. The north is Jon's training ground as the Vale is Sansa's. The two do not overlap, she's given about two fucking lines of thought to Jon the whole series. Her graduation is LF's death. To kill a mockingbird is to destroy one's innocence, when Sansa orchestrates LF's death she will have killed a mockingbird in more ways than one, and entered the big league, KL, to play her way up in the background during the chaos of the dance, as LF did TWOt5Ks. KL, the south, where will be her husband, the little man snarling in the midst of it all who just so happens to be extremely vulnerable to the manipulations of young beautiful girls. Down the road from the knight for whom she's the last chance at honour. The warrior woman who swore an oath to protect her. The newly devout set to sacrifice everything to be the Faith's highest recruit, who treated Sansa terribly but whom Sansa was ever gracious and merciful towards. Where is her first teacher and foremost abuser, the queen she's set to bring down. And of course around the corner from the reborn Sandor whom she can't help wet dreaming about. Those are her pawns. The board is KL. The central question of the arc is can she play the game of thrones and remain Sansa Stark? Playing the game as she's learnt it requires one be dishonourable, fuck people over and cause collateral damage, and so the question becomes is she any better than Cersei? Is Sansa Stark or Sansa Lannister the more apt name?
  16. chrisdaw

    Rickon is destined to be new Lord of Winterfell

    No, Sansa going north is a concoction of Sansa fans who still don't get the actual point of the character. The Vale is a mini KL with its own political web for her cut her teeth on, learning lessons through both successes and failures. Once she graduates from the Vale she will go to KL and play the true game for real. There is absolutely nothing in the north for her arc.
  17. chrisdaw

    Rickon is destined to be new Lord of Winterfell

    There's nothing for Sansa's arc in the north. She's not going north, she's going to KL to play the game of thrones.
  18. chrisdaw

    Is Young Griffs invasion filler?

    What do you mean he wouldn't intentionally do it? Do you think he accidentally wrote Aegon? The emotional impact of such a scene, if Aegon even dampens it, falls by the wayside when set against character arc and theme such as Aegon serves.
  19. chrisdaw

    Should GRRM have cut the Qaarth story in ACOK?

    It will probably relate to Illyrio and how she rightly or wrongly sees through him with regards to Aegon. Qarth is an old has been clinging to and trying to recreate former glory. A hollow city built on the back of slavery and tolls - other people's work and endeavours. Xaro taught her about how people will lust for the power of her dragons and come as false friends. This influences how she sees Quentyn. It may influence her opinion of Euron too, or more likely it should influence her opinion of Euorn but is a lesson she'll leave aside in her turn to fire and blood.
  20. chrisdaw

    Is Young Griffs invasion filler?

    Dany's and Aegon's war is to be the second dance of dragons. Now it would be ridiculous to think GRRM first thought up the original historic dance of dragons, and then later decided to make a second dance of dragons during his series. What a happy coincidence that would be. No, the original dance exists as backstory because he intended to make a contemporary dance. And the historic dance is first mentioned near the start of AGOT, Bran II. GRRM would not have had Dany birth three dragons without knowing what he was going to do with them. In the dance Aegon is going to ride Rhaegal. Rhaegal exists for Aegon and is named after Rhaegar for Aegon's father because Aegon was always intended. At the time he wrote Illyrion giving Dany 3 eggs he would have known full well that one them was to become a dragon for Aegon to ride on during the dance. Perhaps the most major theme of the series is that people need to put aside their petty differences and stop fighting each other and unite together to face the greater threat. To make that point Dany's dragons are going to die in battles for the throne before they can fight the Others. Aegon is key to this point, as Dany will kill him and his dragon Rhaegal fighting for the throne in the second dance. Aegon makes sense of and brings to the fore Illyrio and Varys, two character that have been scheming in the background since AGOT. The character arc Aegon plays to most is Dany's. It is a part of her apparent descent into madness. Aegon exists in contrast to Jon, Aegon is fake, Jon is real. Dany wars and kills fake Aegon, Westeros says she's a mad tyrant who wanted his throne, Dany says its because he was a fake. Enter real Jon, Dany must submit to him or prove all those who says she is mad for power correct. This arc is built upon Aerys's madness and the general Targs can be mad theme. Point being Aegon is intricately woven into one of the two biggest character arcs in the series and backstory that began the series. The whole Blackfyre plot probably wasn't thought up at the time of AGOT, but the Blackfyre stuff is just a fleshing out of Aegon's plot (and ties into Tyrion). The barebones that was always intended (since at least early AGOT) is the emergence of pretender Aegon who Dany fights with, on dragon-back, for the Iron Throne. The idea that GRRM pulled Aegon out of nowhere is based on a poor understanding of the works.
  21. chrisdaw

    Season 8: News, Spoilers And Leaks

    I hope Bran does become king. It's so wild and stupid and funny, it would round the show out so fittingly.
  22. chrisdaw

    Varys and Illyrio under the Red Keep

    Why can't it be? And that's not just what I'm saying and more what is said in the text. The GC knew about Aegon, JC was going for the big reveal and then he realised by their reaction they already knew.
  23. chrisdaw

    Varys and Illyrio under the Red Keep

    They don't need a plan when it comes to Viserys because he is inconsequential, they can make it up as they need to. The dothraki coming to Westeros to crown him is just what he needed to hear at that time to keep things moving. Illyrio and Varys need swords, the trick is in getting a dothraki horde motivated to cross the narrow sea. That's the real hard part, the crux of the matter. Once they're there they just need to point Drogo in the direction of their enemies and he'll do what he does. If Viserys dies, if which silver haired purple eyed prince they are going to crown changes, it's not going to matter to him. He's not going to stop the rape and pillaging and fighting. If Viserys lives long enough for him to become a problem for Aegon and won't step aside for the better claimant then Illyrio and Varys can deal with that problem then. The GC always knew about Aegon. They were always intending to invade Westeros to sit Aegon on the throne.
  24. chrisdaw

    Varys and Illyrio under the Red Keep

    No it doesn't. It's an annoyingly oft repeated theory that runs counter to the text and not grounded in it anywhere. The GC were to join with the dothraki. And people make the incorrect assumption based on the above passage that there was once a plan to sit Viserys on the throne. Just because they intended to join with Viserys and 'his' dothraki doesn't mean they ever intended to crown him. That's just what they told Viserys at that point to get him to play along, but he's not particularly important, he can be mislead and redirected as they need and if he sticks in and becomes a problem then he can be easily offed. They needed swords and the trick was to get a motivated dothraki horde across the narrow sea.
×