Jump to content

chrisdaw

Members
  • Content count

    4,597
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Posts posted by chrisdaw


  1. Ser Gerris will return to Dorne singing this tune.

    Quote

    Ser Archibald, the big bald one, had nothing to say. He sat on the edge of his pallet, staring down at his bandaged hands in their linen wrappings. Ser Gerris punched a wall. "I told him it was folly. I begged him to go home. Your bitch of a queen had no use for him, any man could see that. He crossed the world to offer her his love and fealty, and she laughed in his face."

    "She never laughed," said Selmy. "If you knew her, you would know that."

    "She spurned him. He offered her his heart, and she threw it back at him and went off to fuck her sellsword."

    And Arianne will marry Aegon and Dorne will be Dany's greatest foe during the Dance and in the aftermath during her rule. It will be a large part in the downfall of her rule.

    Quentyn came to Dany to give her Dorne. Dorne could have, should have, would have have been hers, but instead will be her most bitter enemy. Quentyn is primarily a plot device in Dany's arc, a failure of judgement.

    Lets watch and see if someone Jon doesn't particularly fancy comes offering an alliance that while not very beneficial at that particular point in time, would prove to be so in the endgame, or at least a very bad enemy to have, and see if Jon doesn't react with more care.


  2. I think it a good possibility there will be a battle there between humankind and the Others. That Moat Cailin will be hurriedly and/or magically rebuilt or a wall fashioned there. I think the Others will win the battle.

    Quote

    Just beyond, through the mists, she glimpsed the walls and towers of Moat Cailin … or what remained of them. Immense blocks of black basalt, each as large as a crofter's cottage, lay scattered and tumbled like a child's wooden blocks, half-sunk in the soft boggy soil.

    Foreshadowing perhaps for Bran building.


  3. Something to consider. The purpose of all this political intrigue in Meereen is to either prepare Dany for, or to be a missed opportunity to prepare Dany for ruling Westeros.

    Meereen has the GG, and a counterpart in Westeros may be Varys, an actor trying to heal the wounds and sow a new peace. Meereen has the Shavepate, and there may be in Westeros come the end of the new Dance an actor devoted to destroying every house that opposed her in the Dance.

    If Dany doesn't return and Barry and Tyrion are left to sift through everything, or the city just burns and they cut and run, then Dany will not have learnt the most poignant lessons come time for her to try and rule Westeros.


  4. I don't think there is any one leader Harpy, I think the Green Grace is just as she represents herself, an intermediary that knows the will of the Sons well enough and is so trusted to broker on their behalf. I believe this because her desire for peace seems sincere. And that Hizdahr is also what he seems, a mediocrity, and that's part of the reason he was accepted as the Sons to be her husband.

    The idea that there is a leader Harpy I think is a fabrication by Skahaz, and that he arranged for the locusts to be poisoned to frame Hizdahr (meaning he had kidnapped, murdered and mutilated  Hizdahr's servant's little girl), all in an effort to gain the power (by either Dany's consent or with the wroth of her people if she were to die) to kill all the former slavers. That's what Skahaz wants most earnestly, and there being a hidden Harpy leader and the locust poisoning both help that agenda.


  5. The AA story is just a big metaphor. The labouring is sex/conception/pregnancy, the failed attempts are stillbirths, the temple/fires are the womb.

    Dany will have two failed pregnancies, one by water and one by a lion. The third pregnancy will be successful, the father of that one obvious.


  6. Timett is likely there for a reason, another pawn for her to play, maybe the first show of leveraging her marriage for gain. It would be somewhat symbolic, her being able to manipulate the mountain clans the same as Tyrion, showing she is at least his equal in the game of thrones. But there needs not be a kidnapping for the two to interact, and the whole Sansa getting kidnapped thing that Sansa fans seem to love in all its concoctions has never been shown to be grounded in anything. It seems more a fantasy fans pin their hopes on in the desire that Sansa gets away from LF immediately.

    Her arc is playing Tyrion into power and by way of being able to manipulate him to her will, having that power for herself. She will step out from under Littlefinger to stand over Tyrion, her training run ending and her big league beginning. The LF story plays out in the Vale, her training ground, where is set up a little game of thrones with all the political pieces delicately poised, and it finishes at the showcase location, the Eyrie.


  7. Aeron Greyjoy is going to second life a leviathan. The possibility and history of second lifing a leviathan (whale) is what the Drowned God is based on. Aeron is becoming the Drowned God.

    Aeron's description at the beginning of the chapter.

    Quote

    The mutes had robbed him of his of robe and shoes and breechclout. He wore hair and chains and scabs. Saltwater sloshed about his legs whenever the tide came in, rising as high as his genitals only to ebb again when the tide receded. His feet had grown huge and soft and puffy, shapeless things as big as hams.

    Later Euron's description of the drowned god.

    Quote

    “Will you do the same, brother?” Euron asked. “I think not. I think if I drowned you, you’ll stay drowned. All gods are lies, but yours is laughable. A pale white thing in the likeness of a man, his limbs broken and swollen and his hair flipping in the water while fish nibble at his face. What fool would worship that?”

    Note the similarities. The drowned god's physical description is that of a cross between a man and leviathan. The Drowned God's watery halls is a nod to the innards of a whale literally seeming like a great hall.

    With everyone being so focussed on Euron the real crux of this chapter is being missed. It is the most meaningful of Aeron's story, it actually reveals his story whereas before he could almost have been dismissed as simply a convenient POV to relay events.

    Aeron's story is a question of faith. This chapter is a trial of Aeron's faith. 

    Quote

    A weaker man might have wept, but Aeron Damphair prayed, waking, sleeping, even in his fever-dreams he prayed. My god is testing me. I must be strong, I must be true.

    . . .

    Aeron Damphair hardly heard her. Victarion is gone, half a world away or dead.Surely the Drowned God was testing him. This was a lesson for him. Put not your trust in men. Only my faith can save me now.

    The very name of the chapter is a taunt, telling Aeron his faith is misplaced, misguided, wrong.

    Quote

    And a few days later, as her hull shuddered in the grip of some storm, the Crow’s Eye came below again, lantern in hand. This time his other hand held a dagger. “Still praying, priest? Your god has forsaken you.”

    This leads us, the reader, to the simple question of if Euron or Aeron is right. Will nothing come of Aeron's faith?

    What specifically is going to happen is in the text.

    Quote

    “That which is dead cannot die,” said Aeron fiercely. “For he who has tasted death once need never fear again. He was drowned, but he came forth stronger than before, with steel and fire.”

    “Will you do the same, brother?” Euron asked. “I think not. I think if I drowned you, you’ll stay drowned. All gods are lies, but yours is laughable.

    Aeron is going to drown. The question is will he stay drowned?

    Quote

    “Falia Flowers,” he called. “Have courage, girl! All this will be over soon, and we will feast together in the Drowned God’s watery halls.”

    The girl raised up her head, but made no answer. She has no tongue to answer with,the Damphair knew. He licked his lips, and tasted salt.

    And the ending of the chapter is the answer.

    Aeron will drown and will begin a second life (with Falia) in a leviathan - the Drowned God's water halls. The Drowned God will set him free.

    Quote

    Perhaps that was the name of the demon that he worships. The Drowned God protects me, the priest told himself. He is stronger than the false gods these other worship, stronger than their black sorceries. The Drowned God will set me free.

    The belly of the beast where it is always midnight.

    Quote

    It was always midnight in the belly of the beast.

    What is dead may never die.

    Quote

    When they pulled him up the steps through the light, he felt its warmth upon his face, and tears rolled down his cheeks. The sea. I can smell the sea. The Drowned God has not abandoned me. The sea will make me whole again! That which is dead can never die, but rises again harder and stronger …

    The Drowned God will answer his prayers.

    Quote

    I have been your true and leal servant, he prayed, twisting in his chains. Now snatch me from my brother’s hand, and take me down beneath the waves, to be seated at your side.

    It is nothing the Drowned God has not already done for him before.

    Quote

    Not since the Drowned God had blessed him with a second life had Aeron Damphair ventured so far from the Iron Islands.

    He is not forsaken, the chapter title is ironic. His faith and god will prove true and see him through. And when he does second life a leviathan, basically becoming the drowned god, he will be set to meet Euron again and make good on all his threats and promises and all the foreshadowing.

    Quote

    “Euron’s blasphemies will bring down the Drowned God’s wrath upon us all,” he warned.

    But Victarion insisted stubbornly that the god had raised their brother up and that god must cast him down.

    Quote

    “He’s your god as well,” insisted the Damphair. “And when you die, he will judge you harshly, Crow’s Eye. You will spend eternity as a sea slug, crawling on your belly eating shit.

    An epic showdown is brewing, Aeron the Drowned God leviathan vs Euron the new god Kraken.

    Quote

    "A wolf is not a kraken," Victarion objected. "What the kraken grasps it does not lose, be it longship or leviathan."

    Quote

    Behind the dais a kraken and grey leviathan were locked in battle beneath the painted waves.

    Second lifing as a concept is being brought to the fore in steps. It began with simple skin changing, then in ADWD a peripheral character second lifes a mundane wolf. Aeron second lifing a leviathan will be the next step as the series heads towards the big reveal, that Targs/Valyrians second lifed dragons.


  8. Shiera Seastar.

    She is a curious sorcerer with an appetite for arcane knowledge testing the limits of what can be achieved. She suspects or understands humans can second life dragons. She is guiding Euron and Dany for this purpose, and so is bringing the two together. She may understand that it is Dany's destiny to second life a dragon and defeat the Others and is trying to guide her for that purpose. She may just be doing it for fun, because she's mischievous and enjoys the carnage she can create. She may herself intend to second life a dragon and its all preparation and manipulation to that end.


  9. Euron's horn will kill the person who blows and set their soul on fire. It seems it kills the person who blows it by burning them inside out.

    So if there is a connected pattern to the horns, then logically the others should do the following.

    The horn of winter should freeze the person who blows it from inside to out and turn their soul to ice.

    The Kraken horn of lord Celitigar should cause the person who blows it to suffocate/drown but turn their soul to water.

     

    In practice Euron's horn allows a person to second life a dragon. If someone were to attempt to second life a dragon without the horn having set their soul on fire their soul would simply burn and they'd be forced out (what happened to Varamyr in his eagle) or simply consumed.

    Similarly the horn of winter probably allows a person to second life/become an ice dragon or Other.

    And the kraken horn probably allows a person to second life a kraken (and other underwater life), whereas someone's soul who hadn't been made water by the horn would simply drown.

     

    That said the horns are not the only way to do these things, they're just a tool created to streamline the magic process. Drogo second lifed Drogon and Aeron will second life a leviathan without any horns.


  10. I think the place to start looking would be here.

    Quote

     

    "Prince Oberyn was full of stories." Garin had been with them as well that day; he was Arianne's milk brother, and they had been inseparable since before they learned to walk. "He told about Prince Garin, I remember, the one that I was named for."

    "Garin the Great," offered Drey, "the wonder of the Rhoyne."

    "That's the one. He made Valyria tremble."

    "They trembled," said Ser Gerold, "then they killed him. If I led a quarter of a million men to death, would they call me Gerold the Great?" He snorted. "I shall remain Darkstar, I think. At least it is mine own." He unsheathed his longsword, sat upon the lip of the dry well, and began to hone the blade with an oilstone.

     

    This is the only time I can determine where the character touches upon a theme and isn't simply playing to Arianne's arc. I'd guess GRRM is readying to explore the virtues and trappings of a just and honourable resistance that is also a costly failure, and Darkstar has a role.


  11. 2 hours ago, Starkz said:

    In the end Jon will follow Ned and sacrifice what he has for the betterment of the realm. He will choose duty over love and Westeros will prosper as the result.

    Ned didn't choose duty over love when he saved Jon from Robert. Ned didn't choose duty over love when he named himself a traitor and proclaimed Joff the true king.


  12. Yes, but you're not describing what is the actual point.

    Ned Stark sacrificed everything in order to save an innocent child's life. Specifically he sacrificed that which is thought to be most precious to him, his honour, when he committed treason and betrayed his best friend by lying about Jon's parentage. He prioritised a child's life over everything.

    The point is that it will be in contrast to Rhaegar. Rhaegar had Jon for the purpose of sacrifice. Rhaegar will have prioritised saving the realm over the life of his innocent child.

    And so it will fall to Jon to choose which father's footsteps to follow in, Ned/Stark/Ice or Rhaegar/Targ/Fire.


  13. Plausible. Also plausible that someone else is doing it.

    Bran and Hodor, Varamyr and Thistle, this skin-changing of other humans is obviously headed somewhere, though Patchface isn't big enough to be an end destination he would be a fitting step on the way that rounded things out.


  14. 7 minutes ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

    But we don't know how old Melisandre is, why she is hiding her true age and how she is surviving so long...

    As for Quaithe? Again, why would Shiera do that?

    I would assume that Mel is "hiding her true age" because walking around looking like a corpse would probably be distracting and a beautiful visage is more likely to get shit she wants done. How? Magic, she's a shadow binder. And the same would apply for Quaithe.

    Why would Quaithe/Shiera play a hand in waking dragons and saving the world? The character was a curious arcane boundary pusher. It serves her interests.


  15. 1 hour ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

    How would Shiera Seastar live so long?

    At least Bloodraven is hooked up to a weirwood life support system...and even then, he's clearly dying

    She's like Mel, a shadowbinder of Asshai.

    What Quaithe wants is for Dany to remember she is more dragon than human, for her human death and her second life in a dragon, as that's what Dany was meant to be. That's what she means when she tells Dany to remember who she truly is and that her dragons know.


  16. The answer is a simple yes.

    The visions or whatever one wants to call them when a character talks to imaginary characters (or perhaps a real magically appearing Quaithe) is just a literary exposition method. In this case it was to bring Dany to a mindset of planting no trees, fire and blood. At least one person wrote an essay about it that you could probably find if you care to.

    What I find far more interesting to discuss is where this is leading her. Put in place a fire and blood Dany for the one who attempted to balance the line between the cultural norms of Meereen with her own desires, then change Meereen to Westeros. What you get is a Dany who disregards the wishes of the Lords (Westerosi masters) and the Faith (Meereen temple) and who takes a lover who personally appeals to her for a husband (Euron, the Westeros Daario), rather than one that brings her peace (A Westeros Hizdahr).


  17. 3 hours ago, Aldarion said:

    Yes, it is almost certain that he will sit on the Iron Throne. Remember also that one of the visions Dany has in Quarth is of people cheering in King's Landing, waving mummer dragon's flags.

    The location of that vision is not provided in the text.

    I would be disappointed in anyone who didn't understand by now that (team) Aegon is going to be the foremost power in Westeros by the time Dany arrives.


  18. 4 hours ago, Davjos said:

    I think the books are about what makes you human. That is why the Others are the BBE, they are inhuman. Fire is emotion in my reading, but in the broadest sense. It includes justice, honour, love etc.. 

    I don't think ice or fire can lay claim to any one characteristic such as justice and honour. I think it's a point the text makes (and intend to hammer home in the ending), that different people can seek the same thing but from different motivations. For example on the spectrum Stannis tends very ice and justice. 

    Love is tricky, I don't know how the story is categorising that, maybe it is just fire and falls under the umbrella of passion. On the other hand Ned and Cat may be an example of love by ice. Arranged, dispassionate, political, duty, and each had feelings (or a greater opinion of) for another, and yet they grew to love each other. Butt hat very growth into love could be seen as fire.

    It is odd that Catelyn has been revived by fire and will be particularly incapable of love.


  19. 1 hour ago, snow is the man said:

    She won't end up with euron. Victorian is going to get her for himself not euron or at least he thinks that he can get her. And dario was brutal but he was also charming and attracive where as euron is mad. I don't see him talking dany into bed. And I think dany has had enough marrying for other people. She will take a king but it will be one she wants and likely someone weak willed so they won't try to rule and take away her power.

    You're not seeing what Euron is, or rather what he shows to the world. The smiling eye GRRM calls it in universe. Daario is Euron-lite. Euron is the Marc Antony of Westeros, he is the most charming and most attractive. He had his brother killed and sails in the next day. This would be ridiculous for anyone else to even try, but he's Euron, he's that bold, and not only do they not kill him, but he wins them over. He is the fire set against the mud that Barristan talks of.

    Quote

    Like all good queens she put her people first—else she would never have wed Hizdahr zo Loraq—but the girl in her still yearned for poetry, passion, and laughter. She wants fire, and Dorne sent her mud.

    You could make a poultice out of mud to cool a fever. You could plant seeds in mud and grow a crop to feed your children. Mud would nourish you, where fire would only consume you, but fools and children and young girls would choose fire every time.

    Behind the prince, Ser Gerris Drinkwater was whispering something to Yronwood. Ser Gerris was all his prince was not: tall and lean and comely, with a swordsman's grace and a courtier's wit. Selmy did not doubt that many a Dornish maiden had run her fingers through that sun-streaked hair and kissed that teasing smile off his lips. If this one had been the prince, things might have gone elsewise,

    Euron is why this passage exists.

    Dany's whole ADWD arc, the competition in her mind of the floppy ears against her instincts of fire and blood is set up for Euron. Her turn to Fire and Blood at the end of ADWD signals the turn towards Euron. And of course Euron is this,

    Quote

    Her silver was trotting through the grass, to a darkling stream beneath a sea of stars. A corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright in his dead face, grey lips smiling sadly. A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness. . . . mother of dragons, bride of fire . . .

    Grouped with Drogo and Jon. Bride of fire. The implication is plain, to deny it is to deny what the text is giving you for projections of your own.

×