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Everything posted by chrisdaw

  1. chrisdaw

    [TWoW Spoilers] Aeron I (Balticon)

    Aeron Greyjoy is going to second life a leviathan. The possibility and history of second lifing a leviathan (whale) is what the Drowned God is based on. Aeron is becoming the Drowned God. Aeron's description at the beginning of the chapter. Later Euron's description of the drowned god. Note the similarities. The drowned god's physical description is that of a cross between a man and leviathan. The Drowned God's watery halls is a nod to the innards of a whale literally seeming like a great hall. With everyone being so focussed on Euron the real crux of this chapter is being missed. It is the most meaningful of Aeron's story, it actually reveals his story whereas before he could almost have been dismissed as simply a convenient POV to relay events. Aeron's story is a question of faith. This chapter is a trial of Aeron's faith. The very name of the chapter is a taunt, telling Aeron his faith is misplaced, misguided, wrong. This leads us, the reader, to the simple question of if Euron or Aeron is right. Will nothing come of Aeron's faith? What specifically is going to happen is in the text. Aeron is going to drown. The question is will he stay drowned? And the ending of the chapter is the answer. Aeron will drown and will begin a second life (with Falia) in a leviathan - the Drowned God's water halls. The Drowned God will set him free. The belly of the beast where it is always midnight. What is dead may never die. The Drowned God will answer his prayers. It is nothing the Drowned God has not already done for him before. He is not forsaken, the chapter title is ironic. His faith and god will prove true and see him through. And when he does second life a leviathan, basically becoming the drowned god, he will be set to meet Euron again and make good on all his threats and promises and all the foreshadowing. An epic showdown is brewing, Aeron the Drowned God leviathan vs Euron the new god Kraken. Second lifing as a concept is being brought to the fore in steps. It began with simple skin changing, then in ADWD a peripheral character second lifes a mundane wolf. Aeron second lifing a leviathan will be the next step as the series heads towards the big reveal, that Targs/Valyrians second lifed dragons.
  2. chrisdaw

    The problem with Bran being king narrative wise

    It won't happen.
  3. chrisdaw

    Who is Quaithe?

    Shiera Seastar. She is a curious sorcerer with an appetite for arcane knowledge testing the limits of what can be achieved. She suspects or understands humans can second life dragons. She is guiding Euron and Dany for this purpose, and so is bringing the two together. She may understand that it is Dany's destiny to second life a dragon and defeat the Others and is trying to guide her for that purpose. She may just be doing it for fun, because she's mischievous and enjoys the carnage she can create. She may herself intend to second life a dragon and its all preparation and manipulation to that end.
  4. chrisdaw


    Euron's horn will kill the person who blows and set their soul on fire. It seems it kills the person who blows it by burning them inside out. So if there is a connected pattern to the horns, then logically the others should do the following. The horn of winter should freeze the person who blows it from inside to out and turn their soul to ice. The Kraken horn of lord Celitigar should cause the person who blows it to suffocate/drown but turn their soul to water. In practice Euron's horn allows a person to second life a dragon. If someone were to attempt to second life a dragon without the horn having set their soul on fire their soul would simply burn and they'd be forced out (what happened to Varamyr in his eagle) or simply consumed. Similarly the horn of winter probably allows a person to second life/become an ice dragon or Other. And the kraken horn probably allows a person to second life a kraken (and other underwater life), whereas someone's soul who hadn't been made water by the horn would simply drown. That said the horns are not the only way to do these things, they're just a tool created to streamline the magic process. Drogo second lifed Drogon and Aeron will second life a leviathan without any horns.
  5. chrisdaw

    Why Does Darkstar Matter?

    I think the place to start looking would be here. This is the only time I can determine where the character touches upon a theme and isn't simply playing to Arianne's arc. I'd guess GRRM is readying to explore the virtues and trappings of a just and honourable resistance that is also a costly failure, and Darkstar has a role.
  6. chrisdaw

    We’re Missing the Point

    Ned didn't choose duty over love when he saved Jon from Robert. Ned didn't choose duty over love when he named himself a traitor and proclaimed Joff the true king.
  7. chrisdaw

    We’re Missing the Point

    Yes, but you're not describing what is the actual point. Ned Stark sacrificed everything in order to save an innocent child's life. Specifically he sacrificed that which is thought to be most precious to him, his honour, when he committed treason and betrayed his best friend by lying about Jon's parentage. He prioritised a child's life over everything. The point is that it will be in contrast to Rhaegar. Rhaegar had Jon for the purpose of sacrifice. Rhaegar will have prioritised saving the realm over the life of his innocent child. And so it will fall to Jon to choose which father's footsteps to follow in, Ned/Stark/Ice or Rhaegar/Targ/Fire.
  8. chrisdaw

    Can Bloodraven/Bran warg Patchface...

    Plausible. Also plausible that someone else is doing it. Bran and Hodor, Varamyr and Thistle, this skin-changing of other humans is obviously headed somewhere, though Patchface isn't big enough to be an end destination he would be a fitting step on the way that rounded things out.
  9. chrisdaw

    I don’t get the “Love is the Death of Duty”

    Cersei choosing love over duty went real well for the realm.
  10. I would assume that Mel is "hiding her true age" because walking around looking like a corpse would probably be distracting and a beautiful visage is more likely to get shit she wants done. How? Magic, she's a shadow binder. And the same would apply for Quaithe. Why would Quaithe/Shiera play a hand in waking dragons and saving the world? The character was a curious arcane boundary pusher. It serves her interests.
  11. She's like Mel, a shadowbinder of Asshai. What Quaithe wants is for Dany to remember she is more dragon than human, for her human death and her second life in a dragon, as that's what Dany was meant to be. That's what she means when she tells Dany to remember who she truly is and that her dragons know.
  12. The children exist as a dilemma to team Aegon (Varys vs JC) and then Dany. While they live they are threats to their reigns, they're a test, is the new king any better than the old king? I'm not at all confident on how either will die, but it will be in service to this theme.
  13. The answer is a simple yes. The visions or whatever one wants to call them when a character talks to imaginary characters (or perhaps a real magically appearing Quaithe) is just a literary exposition method. In this case it was to bring Dany to a mindset of planting no trees, fire and blood. At least one person wrote an essay about it that you could probably find if you care to. What I find far more interesting to discuss is where this is leading her. Put in place a fire and blood Dany for the one who attempted to balance the line between the cultural norms of Meereen with her own desires, then change Meereen to Westeros. What you get is a Dany who disregards the wishes of the Lords (Westerosi masters) and the Faith (Meereen temple) and who takes a lover who personally appeals to her for a husband (Euron, the Westeros Daario), rather than one that brings her peace (A Westeros Hizdahr).
  14. chrisdaw

    Who is the great other?

    No Great Other, Stannis will become an Ice Dragon and be the big bad.
  15. chrisdaw

    Gendry King's Landing King

    The realm is not breaking up and the throne isn't going to get torched lol.
  16. chrisdaw

    Aegon VI

    The location of that vision is not provided in the text. I would be disappointed in anyone who didn't understand by now that (team) Aegon is going to be the foremost power in Westeros by the time Dany arrives.
  17. chrisdaw

    Dany does not have to go to Westeros

    A story doesn't have to be good.
  18. chrisdaw

    Seeing the bigger bigger picture.

    I don't think ice or fire can lay claim to any one characteristic such as justice and honour. I think it's a point the text makes (and intend to hammer home in the ending), that different people can seek the same thing but from different motivations. For example on the spectrum Stannis tends very ice and justice. Love is tricky, I don't know how the story is categorising that, maybe it is just fire and falls under the umbrella of passion. On the other hand Ned and Cat may be an example of love by ice. Arranged, dispassionate, political, duty, and each had feelings (or a greater opinion of) for another, and yet they grew to love each other. Butt hat very growth into love could be seen as fire. It is odd that Catelyn has been revived by fire and will be particularly incapable of love.
  19. chrisdaw

    Dany's Arc

    You're not seeing what Euron is, or rather what he shows to the world. The smiling eye GRRM calls it in universe. Daario is Euron-lite. Euron is the Marc Antony of Westeros, he is the most charming and most attractive. He had his brother killed and sails in the next day. This would be ridiculous for anyone else to even try, but he's Euron, he's that bold, and not only do they not kill him, but he wins them over. He is the fire set against the mud that Barristan talks of. Euron is why this passage exists. Dany's whole ADWD arc, the competition in her mind of the floppy ears against her instincts of fire and blood is set up for Euron. Her turn to Fire and Blood at the end of ADWD signals the turn towards Euron. And of course Euron is this, Grouped with Drogo and Jon. Bride of fire. The implication is plain, to deny it is to deny what the text is giving you for projections of your own.
  20. chrisdaw

    Dany's Arc

    This is Dany's arc to come. When Dany chose to jump into the pits to save Drogon she chose an arc of fire and blood. Dany will lead and be lead by her wills and wants. She will don no floppy ears no more, for no-one, including Westeros. Dany will consolidate the Dothraki and rip west over Essos. What she isn't there for personally will be taken in her name by others. Victarion will be her commander at sea. Barry will live and be her man. Jorah will be forgiven and accepted back into her graces. By the time they hit the west coast Tyrion will ride Viserion and seem to be her man. Much of Volantis will fall in behind her, including Benerro and his Fiery Hand. But by the time she gets to the coast, most likely Pentos, Aegon will either rule Westeros with the backing of the Faith, or be their man but yet to be crowned. Aegon's existence is primarily to be a foil for Dany and her madness arc. At some point Dany will come to believe Aegon is false, most likely through the Tattered Prince story thread leading into Pentos history and Illyrio's history. Maybe after she arrives in Westeros, perhaps Aegon and her are at first strained friends and forces and individuals push them to war. But the how doesn't particularly matter. Dany will believe Aegon is false and that will be enough for her to make war with him, and so will begin the second dance of dragons. Aegon will come to ride Rhaegal. How he will do so I am not sure, perhaps she will give the dragon to him before she comes to believe he is false, perhaps through some form of treachery Illyrio or another sympathetic party will get the dragon to Aegon. A dance with dragons needs dragons on both sides, and the first was between the greens and blacks. Dany's war on Aegon will plunge the realm into chaos. Aegon will be well loved and well backed, particularly by the faith, but he will be married to Arianne and so have Dorne and will also gain the Reach. Dany will come to be hated by most the realm. Among other reasons she will be hated because she will have brought a force of savage dothraki (though not the prophesised united Khalasar) and worshippers of the Red God and many other gods. Because she will lead and rule savagely, merciless and with fire and blood. And because she will ally with the Ironborn and shack up with Euron. From Dany's perspective Euron will be another Daario, just better and with much more to offer. Tyrion, significant because he will ride Viserion and so seemingly be able to tip the balance of power, will largely sit out the war, as did Tywin in Robert's Rebellion Tyrion will wait until it is clear which side will win. Dany will win, she'll kill Aegon and most likely Rhaegal will die too, if not it will be injured. By the time she has won most the realm will hate Dany, especially the Faith. She will take control of KL. Dany will miscarry Euron's child. Unable to get the child he wants from Dany, Euron will betray her and turn to the widowed Arianne, the next best Targaryen blooded womb in the kingdom. Arianne will likely be a hostage in KL at the time, she will have gresyscale and so too will Euron after bedding her. Euron's turn from Dany to Arianne will be the treason for blood. Euron will successfully beget a child on Arianne, and he will sacrifice it and himself by way of his horn and successfully second life Drogon. The result will be Drogon begins to gradually turn to stone, the fire he breathes becomes greyscale, and his form becomes a monstrous kraken/dragon hybrid. Eventually it will no longer allow Dany to be its master. Dany will come to understand what happened to Drogon and believe she will be able to fix him with a sacrifice of her own child, but that the sacrifice must have good pure dragon blood and so she will require a worthy father. So she will get pregnant by Aurane Waters for his old Valyrian blood, but will miscarry his child too. She will then get pregnant by Tyrion, as he will be riding a dragon he will be presumed a Targaryen bastard. Dany will miscarry his child too. In KL the High Septon will refuse to crown her. The High Septon will die, and even if it isn't by Dany's hand she will get the blame for having murdered him. Dany will gain Jaime as a prisoner, perhaps by Tyrion handing him to her to buy his way into her good graces. For the crime of murdering her father Dany will sentence Jaime to death in the dragon pit, but during his trial he will explain why he did the deed. Many will lose faith in Dany and abandon her. The realm will say she's mad, truly her father's daughter, that she brought them the terrors of war and dragons, that she's godless or follows demon gods, that she's a whore who takes lovers and tries to steal their souls. But mostly they will say she is ruled by a thirst for power, a tyrant who killed her brother Aegon for his throne. The people of KL will revolt against her, and storm the dragon pit. Armed only in his faith Lancel will successfully save Jaime. The people of KL will force Dany to flee the city. With what little forces remain to her and dragonless, Dany will head to the north driven by prophecy. There she will find Jon and come to believe he is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna and the rightful Targaryen heir to the throne. This will cause her an internal dilemma. She will have justified her war against Aegon both publicly and internally on the basis that Aegon is a fake. Thus she must submit to a very real Jon or prove everyone who says she is a mad queen who simply lusted for power correct. She'll submit to Jon, letting go of her desire to rule the Seven Kingdoms, and by doing so prove herself not to be a mad Targaryen like her father. Putting the throne behind her will leave Dany with need of a new mission. While in the north she's going to learn about the Others, and this is going to have a massive impact upon her. She will have destroyed Rhaegal in the dance. And she will have known Euron was not trustworthy, and a cunt, but will have taken him into her confidence and bedded him anyway, leading to the loss of Drogon. Two weapons that could have been used to fight the Others and save the realm, lost, because of her. The last dragon will be Tyrion's and not within her power, and Tyrion won't be coming to help. Having found the true purpose of the dragons, the need for Dany to fix Drogon will now be even greater, and in Jon she will have found the answer to her problem. The son of her brother, strong Targaryen blood, dragon blood. And so like she did with Aurane and Tyrion before she will seek to get pregnant by Jon. There will however be a problem, Jon will not like Dany much. Jon will have been up on the wall or in the north crying to the south for help. For their dragons. He may have even managed a pact with Aegon, that Aegon would fly and come help when the Others come. Instead Dany eventually came, fleeing, with fuck all forces left and no dragons. She lost them in selfish endeavours. Jon will refuse to bed Dany. But Dany is no quitter, especially with the whole world to save. She is at heart a saviour, the interventionalist, she can't sit on her hands while people die and suffer. Blood lines, prophesies and sacrifices will not be convincing to Jon, but there will be someone in the north to whom it will all make sense, Melisandre. Mel will understand what Dany means and Mel knows Jon's heart. Mel will glamour Dany to look like Ygritte, and in disguise Dany will make like a wildling and steal Jon, pluck the blue rose of Winterfell. Tyrion will sit the Iron Throne in the south and will refuse Jon's pleas for help in the north. Tyrion will view KITN Jon as a traitor, a rebel who has divided his realm. He will think the Others are fantasy, a ruse to lure Tyrion north. And Tyrion will have a load of his own problems in the south. As a consequence of the refusal of the south to help, Jon will be preparing to march south. He will intend to treat with Tyrion face to face, to earn the help of his dragon and the united realm, or if he must, defeat Tyrion and unite the realm himself. A newly pregnant Dany will follow with Jon. Having become pregnant Dany will need to find Drogon, or what he has now become. Drogon will have become more sea creature and stone and ended up at the bottom of the ocean near Dragonstone. Under the ocean the stone of Drogon will have formed a maze and at the centre will be a black oily stone, at which a humanoid Euron will sit a throne, attended by all those who breathed the greyscale of the Stone Beast. By sacrificing his follower's un/newlyborn children to the stone Euron will produce beasts, sphinxes under his control. There he will be creating an enslaved stone army with the intention of rising from the ocean and conquering Westeros. Jon will win his way south, unfortunately his forces will kill Viserion along the way as Tyrion will refuse any useful compromise. Now pregnant Dany knows she is the only hope for a dragon. Somehow, probably more prophecy than anything else, she will learn the whereabouts of Drogon/black oily stone/Euron. Dragonstone will go boom, a second Doom like that of Valyrian, if not an unintended consequence of Bran's magic then perhaps Euron's. The mountains will explode and fall like leaves and the narrow sea will empty. Elsewhere the Others will have entered the south, moving beneath the wings of an ice dragon, and the people of KL will have fled into the dried out seabed, there they will be preparing a last stand. A now heavily pregnant Dany accompanied by only a few loyalists will head to Dragonstone, and then to the stone maze in the dried out sea. The maze will resemble those of the Patternmaker's Maze and Asshai, and will have beasts they need avoid or fight. They will not make it to the centre of the maze before Dany begins to give birth, under the smoke of an erupting dragonstone and in the salt of the dried out seabed. When she does Jon will arrive, also with a handful of loyalists. Knowing what Dany intended to do with his unborn bastard child, Jon will have decided to leave the war for the dawn to stop her. Jon's men will defeat Dany's, and Dany will give birth to a baby girl. Jon will take his daughter and give it to one of the surviving combatants, and execute Dany for her intention to kill the child. When he does his sword will take flame. Dany will have been wrong. She will have believed she needed to sacrifice her child to wake the dragon from stone. She will have been wrong not because a sacrifice is not required, but because the role of the sacrifice will have already been fulfilled by Rhaego. She will not need to do it again as Rhaego's soul will exist already within the black oily stone. Dany's soul will leave her body, fly over the maze to its centre, and down into the black oily stone. Her soul will transform the stone in her image. As bright as the Khal burned in life, so too shall they burn in the afterlife. The black oily stone will take fire and the stone of the maze will melt and take the form of a black dragon, reflecting Dany's life and so the power of her soul, the dragon will be the size of Balerion with its fire as hot. Within the dragon Dany will expel Euron's, Arianne's and their child's souls by fire, and reunite with Drogo and Rhaego. She will release the souls of all those Euron controls and allow those souls she would to enter the dragon with her, granting an afterlife to all those who have died in her name. Jon will mount the dragon that is Dany, and she will allow him. In her final moments she will have come to understand Jon was right to execute her for trying to sacrifice the child, as that's what kings are for, to do justice and protect those who can not protect themselves. They will fly into combat with the ice dragon, Dany's fire burning a path to its blue crystal eye where Jon will stick his flaming sword. The ice dragon will perish, melt away, its wings no longer sheltering the Others below from the dawn, causing them all to melt away too. With Euron and the Others melted, the black dragon will simply fly away, riderless and never to be seen again.
  21. chrisdaw

    Seeing the bigger bigger picture.

    It is a very good question to ask. In a Song of Ice and Fire the ice and fire are representative of what drives one's decision making. Ice represents decision making based upon cold hard calculation, free from emotion. One might say heartless decisions, or to use an in-world term, the heart of winter. An example would be Varys's stated logic at Robert's small council by which he argued for Dany's assassination. Fire represents decisions made of passion, one may say made by the heart in spite of the brain. The fiery heart. An example would be Jon's decision to send Mance to save 'Arya'. Another would be Dany's decision to embrace the sick. A song is formed by both passion and order. It is a whole thing made up of multiple individual parts. In making a song of ice and fire GRRM is making an argument that a combination of both forms of decision making is optimal, in moderation and balance with the other.
  22. chrisdaw

    Why did the project fail?

    Pretty simple, doesn't take much explaining. D&D just didn't understand the series and didn't care for it when it was explained. Like Mace on having a grandson king they got off on the idea of being responsible for shocking everyone with the Red Wedding. That was their attraction to doing the adaption, and after that they just wanted off the train as soon as could reasonably be done without jeopardising their careers and turning the internet against them.
  23. chrisdaw

    GRRM struggling how to show Daenerys' mental instability

    It is the question of her arc, it must be asked and answered. Her madness will manifest itself as her being mistrustful and tyrannical. Take cues from Tyrion's speech to Faegon about trusting no-one, and Maegor for tyranny, as those are what Dany is going to be perceived as. It will hinge most prominently on her having killed Aegon. The people will call her mad and after she has won the throne by killing Aegon they will remove her by popular revolt. But it isn't in the population's minds that the question needs be answered, it's a question for Dany herself. Did she kill Aegon because she wanted the IT for herself, or because he's an imposter? If she truly cared for the people should she have not left a well loved, capable, uniting young king alone to rule the realm? Enter Jon, and a chance for Dany to make amends, and prove to herself at least that she's not what they believed her to be.
  24. chrisdaw

    Summerhall tragedy - new theory

    Yes there's a lot to go for Egg's development, however I would still expect something in the way of signalling he would be willing to go to extreme lengths or trend in some way instability. All the main character arcs are signalled in their first couple of chapters, young or old, it's just how GRRM writes, and I see no seeding for this sort of thing at all.