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chrisdaw

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Everything posted by chrisdaw

  1. His hand is just the beginning. There are two parallels for Jaime that are victims of conspicuous physical disfigurement. By conspicuous I mean GRRM goes out of his way to make a point of just how much these two endured. The dragon Sunfyre. - Considered the most beautiful dragon ever seen, as Jaime's beauty is well regarded. - Golden scaled and flamed, as Jaime is associated with Lannister gold and wears golden armour. - A formidable fighter despite its youth, as Jaime was the youngest ever Kingsguard. - The name Sunfyre plays to Jaime's description in Bran's vision - "Another was armored like the sun, golden and beautiful." - In battle with Meleys, Sunfyre has one wing half torn from his body and can never properly fly again. Jaime loses his primary sword fighting hand. Tyland Lannister - A younger Lannister twin like Jaime. - Tall, golden haired and dashing, another Jaime. - When it came to Aegon or Rhaenyra - Tyland pointed out that many of the lords who had sworn to defend the succession of Princess Rhaenyra were long dead. “It has been twenty-four years,” he said. “I myself swore no such oath." We know Jaime's association with oaths as a theme of his arc. - Vied for Rhaenyra's hand in his youth before turning against her. As Rhaenyra is often a parallel to Cersei this echoes Jaime's and Cersei's relationship. - Noted as being in favour of putting down the rebellious Riverland lords. Jaime's been occupied with war in the Riverlands the whole series. Both characters endured severe physical disfigurement and torment. Below is gutter quoting from the Wiki, I'll edit in the appropriate quote from F&B when I have access to it. I propose Jaime is going to endure the same fate. Jaime's arc is one of selfishness to servitude. His selfishness caused the WOT5Ks, and in a classic heel turn arc it is his fate to selflessly endure the worst GRRM can think for him, and give everything of himself, in service to his realm. It is to contrast his KG brothers, GRRM is exploring the theme of selfishness along the lines that perhaps those who died honourably and revered took the easy option. The selfish option. They kept their oaths but left the realm to chaos. Jaime by choice and fate is not to be granted that luxury, the realm is his responsibility. He will live to do the things the realm needs doing, that no-one else will do, he is its protector, and for it he will be reviled, maligned, tortured and reduced to barely a scrap of life, before, unfortunately, getting an inglorious death and being remembered poorly by most. Or maybe, hopefully, getting a glorious death (that no-one will know about but us readers).
  2. chrisdaw

    Jaime is Destined to be Horribly Disfigured.

    All of them almost. You're basically wilfully denying the design intent of the character. No less absurd than claiming threatening to load a baby into a catapult isn't dishonourable.
  3. chrisdaw

    Jaime is Destined to be Horribly Disfigured.

    So Jaime has never legitimately been torn between two vows? It is just all in his head?
  4. chrisdaw

    Jaime is Destined to be Horribly Disfigured.

    Ok. Personally I'm interested in the characters and arguments the text provides.
  5. chrisdaw

    Jaime is Destined to be Horribly Disfigured.

    Tywin is Great in terms of influence, reach. He is great in the terms Genna described him, as was the purpose of that paragraph. He was the realm's protector but he was also partisan and acted often in his personal interest, Jaime will be similar but transcend personal and tribal wants. He will be like Tyland in this respect and that's why GRRM makes a big deal out of the character's impartiality. His arc is what I said it is multiple times, selfishness to servitude, redemption isn't so much the point but an inevitable aside. Had it come to it Jaime would have killed the baby, that's the whole point of the making threats and carrying them out exchange with the Frey. And it is meant to be contrasted with Dany's taking of child hostages but refusing to do anything when tested. Though in Jaime's case it'd probably not come to it because he'd get himself killed in the fighting before hand so he didn't have to, he leaves himself death as an out a few times. It's a theme, death is the easy way out, a luxury Jaime won't be afforded, he is to suffer and serve. In all honesty, I love Jaime, I think his is probably GRRM's best character work.
  6. chrisdaw

    Jaime is Destined to be Horribly Disfigured.

    Jaime isn't really forced to do anything he doesn't want to do. He could have stayed in his tent and played with himself while they trotted out Edmure every morning. He could have gone Outlaw hunting (might have actually been a prudent thing to do in hindsight). Could have hung out in Raventree until their granary was crumbs. Hell he could have even refused to head out to the Riverlands himself, what was Cersei going to do? Hang him? Point being, taking responsibility for restoring the king's peace was very much a choice and newly developed character trait. It is in contrast to this, Tyrion's take isn't wrong, it is just dated. The Jaime he knew has changed, he no longer thirsts for battle, runs from rule and is thinking about feeding the realm. He's becoming the realm's protector, because Tywin died so someone has to, and no-one else is great enough for the challenge.
  7. chrisdaw

    How did you pick your screen name?

    I took my first name, and added the first three letters of my last name.
  8. chrisdaw

    Lady Stoneheart's destination

    She doesn't leave the Riverlands. She wreaks death on the enemies of House Stark and Tully and all the innocent who get in the way. Arya out of face and unknown will come join her death cult masquerading as merry outlaws. Arya will come to conclusion that the corpse of her mother is merely a vessel for murderous revenge, not fit for life much less to lead men, and destroy her. The end.
  9. chrisdaw

    Jaime is Destined to be Horribly Disfigured.

    Yeah and he would do it. He slit the throat of the king he was sworn to protect then hunted the pyromancers like dogs, threw a child to his death and likely would have killed Arya had he caught her. Point being Jaime doesn't work in half measures. He'd carry out his threat for the greater good, because if he doesn't every threat he ever makes afterwards is meaningless, the crown, the KG, become known as being weak willed and having no teeth. His ability to end the next rebellion, to restore the king's peace in future, becomes extremely damaged. He would be Tytos, when his arc is Tywin. That's what Hos the hostage is about. Eventually the Riverlands and Jaime will end up on the wrong side of each other again. And Jaime will bear arms against them. And Hos will, if Jaime has his way, lose his head. Only Jaime may not have the final say in things.
  10. chrisdaw

    Jaime is Destined to be Horribly Disfigured.

    Ok, I've no interest in arguing against trying to paint threatening to murder an enemy's baby as an honourable action.
  11. chrisdaw

    Jaime is Destined to be Horribly Disfigured.

    Yes it does. So they wouldn't do it because it'd be dishonourable. Forcing himself to smile, let them all hear it, it makes no difference, Tywin's theme song to see him out. Very straight-forward.
  12. chrisdaw

    Mel & Shireen

    Stannis burns Shireen and everything else is wishful thinking.
  13. chrisdaw

    Jaime is Destined to be Horribly Disfigured.

    Threatening to murder a baby does equate to being dishonourable. Ned Stark, Arthur Dayne, etc would never have done that shit. You seem to want to disagree without being able to articulate something you disagree with. Yes Jaime would like to be honourable and well remembered, that's why it is a genuine heartfelt and painful sacrifice every time he foregoes these personal desires for a greater good. That is his lot, his role, his destiny and his arc, what will be left to him, as the Riverland chapters demonstrate, is the simple satisfaction that comes with having served (the realm) well.
  14. chrisdaw

    Jaime is Destined to be Horribly Disfigured.

    And sacrificed his honour to do it when he threatened to murder a baby. You seem to want to conflate doing the greater good and honourable thing, but they're not the same.
  15. chrisdaw

    Jaime is Destined to be Horribly Disfigured.

    I don't disagree with you. Jaime feels it, which makes him unlike Tywin, but consistently when his honour is pitted against another outcome he chooses the other outcome and to be perceived as the dishonourable villain. He has a sense of what honour is, he just rejects it in favour of other priorities, previously selfish priorities, these days more for the realm.
  16. chrisdaw

    Jaime is Destined to be Horribly Disfigured.

    Honour is a horse. It is really clear what is happening because it already is happening. It isn't about honour here, it is a game of harm minimisation at the expense of honour. His honour is his sacrifice and it allows him to restore the king's peace without any of the realm's subjects having to die.
  17. chrisdaw

    Jaime is Destined to be Horribly Disfigured.

    Jaime's arc is probably the easiest to see at this stage because it is the farthest progressed. It isn't so much a redemption arc, that's a by-product, it is selfishness to servitude. The King eats and Hand takes the shit is the theme, and Jaime is the character developed to explore it. In service of the greater good some horrible things are going to need to be done, and Jaime is the man for the job. It's there point blank in the Genna passages. Protector. When everyone else just lets things slide the wrong direction, he'll be the one person who will step up, go against the grain, do the ugly. Those looking for Jaime to be governed by some moral honourable compass are going to be disappointed. Like how he ended the siege at Riverrun, Jaime's lot is to do the heinous horrible shit, and force himself to smile through it. What has changed is the cause he's acting on behalf of. He used to do it for his love of Cersei, her children, his love of fighting and ego, all selfishness. Now he's coming to act in service of the realm, the king's peace.
  18. chrisdaw

    Slayer of Lies triad; another look

    The stone beast aligns perfectly with Euron. Jumping from a tower to fly. It is him taking the leap, and succeeding. Killing himself and being reborn. He is a mad dreamer, and this is why. The stone beast is a sphinx. It is the combination of Euron's human blood, his kraken blood and the dragon he is becoming, it is GRRM's Cthulhu, a new god. If you're not aware what Cthulhu looks like then look him up and you have the reason for why Dany describes it as a beast.
  19. chrisdaw

    Slayer of Lies triad; another look

    It's Stannis, Aegon and Euron. Aegon is straight-forward. Euron is the stone beast after he second lifes Drogon. Euron's soul being what it is, the result of it taking prominence in Drogon will turn the dragon into a sphinx, a monstrous mash up that can no longer breathe fire. The shadow flame is important because a dragon not being able to breathe fire makes it a useless weapon against the Others. The great tower is Storm's End, atop it is where Euron will sacrifice himself and become Drogon. As Euron is the last storm. As a an epic storm gathers there every X (77?) amount of years. As Euron must throw himself from a tower (sacrifice his human life) to see if he can fly (become a dragon in his second life). The stone is because Euron is going to have greyscale (grey lips smiling sadly in a dead face). Dany slaying him is her second lifing Drogon and casting Euron's soul out, this is foreshadowed often in the series, every time fire (usually dragon's) melts stone - Harren's demise at Harrenhal, Dany's blood on stone in her Wake the Dragon Dream and many many others. Stannis will become an ice dragon in his second life. The blue eyes are important because the ice dragon has crystal blue eyes. The lack of a shadow is important because an ice dragon has translucent wings and so doesn't cast a shadow. Well it does, but not a proper one. Mel will facilitate in his creation, and will come as a result of Stannis sacrificing Shireen, thus proving he has the heart of winter. The brightest fires create the darkest shadows, the fire of Stannis's soul burns low, so he casts weak shadows - the shadows beneath translucent wings. Note that the shadow beneath wings is in the series constantly used symbolically to represent influence, and all the shadow references in Stannis's story. The glowing like sunset is a reference to the long night that will come with the Ice Dragon. Very possibly the wings will disperse light so that the Others can travel beneath them, and thus the ice dragon's creation will kick off their invasion. The ice crystal eyes (or maybe just 1) will be the manifestation of Stannis's soul. These are Dany's big three enemies and are foreshadowed since AGOT. black iron dragons with jewels for eyes = Stannis the ice dragon. Jewels for eyes like the crystal ice dragon eyes. Iron as Stannis is - Maybe the ice dragon will have an iron type skeleton. Manticore = sphinx = Euron. Roaring Griffin is JonCon and counts for Aegon.
  20. chrisdaw

    Moments of Foreshadowing v.12

    Arianne will die and second life a dragon, her fiery soul fuelling the dragon's flame, as how it works and happened with Drogo and Rhaego. As a consequence there's subtle hints in the language of Arianne towards the symbolism associated with Drogo's and Rhaego's rebirths. Arianne thinks, Shining/burning stars as a symbol of a second life aligns with the khal afterlife story fed us during Drogo's death. And his portion of Dany's wake the dragon dream. Arianne given a flaming heart. Echoing Rhaego's fate as portrayed in the wake the dragon dream. As is Mel's (R'hllor's) symbol for AA. The passage with Arianne's flaming heart gives insight into the circumstances of her second life. Arianne is going to be betrayed by someone she loves, and be a very angry dragon.
  21. chrisdaw

    Euron Greyjoy "Ice or Fire"

    There's no need to frame it as fire and ice, doing so isn't really going to provide any insight here. They're symbolic, ice is cold hard logic, devoid of the heart, which is what the reborn Jon will be. Fire is passion, to be ruled and rule from the heart in spite of the brain, Dany. Euron is another thing altogether, he'll be associated with stone to signify his complete lack of empathy. You are however extremely correct about what Euron specifically intends to do and you're right to parallel it with those parts of Dany's story. What Euron is going to do is what happened to Drogo and is what will happen to Dany also. Euron will do it then she will do it, that's why it all aligns. Euron knows or suspects that dragons can be second lifed, that Targaryens/Valyrians did it. It is what his horn does. He knows to do it requires a sacrifice of one's own child and that the child must have Valyrian blood. It is what happened with Rhaego and he plans to repeat the sequence. Hence why he specifically needs a heir from Dany, a worthy heir. He plans to have a child by Dany, to sacrifice that child and his own mortal life, and to be reborn as a dragon. It is what he means by flying, and jumping from a tower means suicide. He'll never know if he can fly unless he jumps from a tower, means he'll never know if he can second life a dragon unless he kills himself. Being a dragon is basically becoming a god, the most powerful being in the world with a lifespan many times that of anything else. It is what he means by flying. It is why he views gods of other religions false, as they don't really offer believers a life after death, whereas this practice does. The dragon is not just a god, it is also heaven. A celestial being, it can allow more than one soul within it. The head of the dragon can allow people's soul within the dragon it to live a second life. Euron will second life Drogon (won't be by sacrificing Dany's baby, it will be with Arianne's) and Drogon will become the stone beast (a stone kraken dragon), reflecting Euron's blood and nature. At the end of the series Dany will die and she will second life Drogon. Her soul will melt Euron's soul out of Drogon and all his stone, and a massive conventional fire dragon will be reborn. This is why there's all the fire against stone imagery in the series (Dany's wake the dragon dream, harrenhal, Garin the Great, Qarlon the Great). This is the world being born anew. She will then allow entry of other souls (those souls seem to be homeless currently, they are the whispering stars in her dreams/visions) into the dragon with her. This is her defeating death and all those who died in her name being reborn. Also the rising of a Khal after death to ride the night lands with their starry khalasar.
  22. chrisdaw

    [TWOW Spoilers] Alayne I, v. 3

    And I think you are ignoring important thematic inclusions in the text because they don't fit your wishes. Sansa forcing sweet sleep on Robert is a part of the story for a reason, and that reason is not to show she is negligent.
  23. chrisdaw

    [TWOW Spoilers] Alayne I, v. 3

    Things don't need that much elaborating, Sansa's use of drugs to sedate SR against the protestations of his maester concerned for the boy's health is not a benevolent act.
  24. chrisdaw

    [TWOW Spoilers] Alayne I, v. 3

    You're just handwaving swathes of text as if it's meaningless. It's not.
  25. This one is given to us pretty freely, I will make the case. I will make the case only that is Euron who will commit the treason against Dany, but will not speculate as to what the treason will be. In the House of the Undying Dany is treated to many a prophecy, including three treasons she will know. The precise wording, So Dany will know a treason for blood. In The World of Ice and Fire in the Yi Ti section there is the story of the various emperors leading to the Bloodstone Emperor. Notice the Bloodstone Emperor's list of hits aligns closely with Euron. His betrayal of the Amethyst Empress is given a name. So the Bloodstone Emperor committed the Blood Betrayal against the Amethyst Empress. A Blood Betrayal to a treason for blood. Same same. An amethyst is a purple jewel. Dany is basically (besides Lord Brax) the only character referred to with an amethyst descriptor. And by Euron no less. And note specifically what Euron fixates on about Dany. Line, as in bloodline. It is her dragon blood he wants her for. Euron's affiliation with blood is strong. The Bloodstone Emperor is an analogue for Euron, the Amethyst Empress for Dany, and the Blood Betrayal is an analogue for a treason Euron will commit against Dany - the treason for blood that she will know.
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