Lord Eddard

Get it into your head that the vast majority loves this show and considers it superior TV. Now I am sure you consume a lot of stupid crap regarding the quality of your comments here but don't judge others by your own standards.

Winterfell was very poorly done this year and a tragic waste of brilliant source material.

How can you even say this? Ramsay was brilliant, this guy is so evil you actually despise and fear him whenever he's on stage. Theon is fantastic, too: top notch acting and believable transformation from Reek back to Theon.

Now I agree that LF's plan was stupid, actually I didn't get it at all. The Boltons on the other hand were of course glad to get their hands on the last (in their opinion) Stark, it gives their claim over the North so much more legitimacy, regardless of how many Northern lords were invited to the wedding or not. The fact - the wedding - counts.

And Sansa - why do you even ask about her? She is merely a pawn and has no say in the matter. Do you honestly think she could have refused to marry Ramsay? Never.

The end result is that we have Sansa in Winterfell. I'd take that any time instead of having her in the Vale twiddling her thumbs and doing nothing.

Porne is like the black friend some racist people have. "I am objective, I didn't like Dorne!".

Actually some Tyene Porne made Dorne better.

I know what I said, Mr headteacher. And where do you surmise a liking of show!Dorne from "While season 5 had some issues - mainly Dorne that was unwisely adapted from Dance and almost as pedestrian as in the book"?

I didn't like either of them.

The only thing show!Dorne had going for it was that it was over sooner. I merely had to watch some minutes of it each episode instead of being bored to death while reading scores of pages in Feast or Dance. Hence "almost as pedestrian".

Satisfied or shall I explain it again in simpler terms?

Hey, I won't defend show!Dorne now only to highlight book!Dorne's failing - I liked neither of them as my initial statement clearly said. The show would have been well advised to cut the whole pointless affair. But the rest of season 5 is magnificent.

The show has gone beyond the point of being redeemable to me.

Then stop watching, my poor summer child :kiss:

Stannis, the greatest military commander in Westeros, did the following:

1) Burns his daughter leaving himself without an heir if he dies

2) Burns his only daughter and heir alive without being told what this would actually achieve by a woman whose record with King's Blood is only 67%

3) Can't guard his stores and siege weapons against 20 frigging men

4) Is somehow surprised that sellswords might abandon him after burning his daughter and heir

5) Somehow doesn't hear 500 men abandon camp during the night, then doesn't hear half of his army abandon him during the night either

6) Somehow intends to take Winterfell in a siege without horses or siege weapons or the food necessary to starve Winterfell out

Military genius my arse.

Yes, Stannis messed up big time, no arguments against it. But his campaign and he himself were all gradually falling to pieces. Even military geniuses can mess up, history is full of them. At the end, Stannis was broken and only a husk of the man he had been before. We were shown how one bad decision piled up on the other until their combined weight crushed Stannis and saw him unprepared and helpless in front of the gates of Winterfell. Brilliantly done in my opinion.

No, it wasn't good at all imo and in many others' as well.

Can you please elaborate on many others? Almost everybody loves the show, the ratings and the raving reviews prove it. Even here, in the den of denial, more people voted the last episode a 10 than a 1 - heck, the worst average rating of one episode is 6 and most averages are 8 and 9.

And then tell me again that there is no good dialogue in the show :lol: I even give you an example: Tyrion and Varys in episode 10 - simply brilliant.

And speaking of book!Dorne - since you are so keen on good dialogue and love Dance so much - here's one example of exemplary dialogue that was sorely missed in the show: I am Darkstar and I am of the night.

What a gem, what poetry..

For the last 7 days in television ratings.... For the key demographic.

The #1 & #2 shows were the NBA. #3 was Game of Thrones. It even beat the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

Even when network television is in full swing, Game of Thrones loses to Big Bang Theory and The Walking Dead. And it has more international appeal then both of those shows.

This guy Metopheles won't let facts get in the way of a good trolling, so save your breath. We have already shown him the error of his ways. He just doesn't like it that he has made an ass out of himself :)

While season 5 had some issues - mainly Dorne that was unwisely adapted from Dance and almost as pedestrian as in the book - the last three episodes were an absolute blast and gave us a satisfying end to the season. I especially loved Tyrion and Varys together to rule in Meereen - the imp needs to be in a position of power to be interesting, otherwise he's just pointless "where do whores go?". FTW was handled nicely and had a huge emotional impact. Stannis as a broken man losing the battle of Winterfell was depressing but only consistent with his decisions before. I hope Brienne didn't kill him and he will take revenge on the red witch for making him burn his daughter.

Ah yes, and the walk of shame was a blast, too. Great acting from Lena Headey just before she entered the gates - the utter despair and humiliation on her face was a joy to behold. The Seven have mercy on the her enemies when she unleashes Gregor. Can't wait for season 6!

What is there even to argue then? It is not the most viewed show. Not at the moment, likely never. (Going by the numbers of the first viewing, which are apparently all the craze in America).

Some movies are bad while in theaters, but sell like hell when they are released on DVD and BD. But the concern was the numbers of the first viewing.

Potential=/=Reality. Nothing against you, I know more people might watch it legally if you wouldn't have to get a sub for one show with 10 episodes a year, it is just how it is. People didn't.

Either you are too dense to get lancerman's excellent response to your endearing assumption that you could compare Game of Thrones' viewership and ratings to some obscure backwater German show - or you are willfully trolling.

In the spirit of charity, I assume the latter. But maybe you are indeed special and need that extra nudge to understand basic realities, so here I'll help you out, nice and simple: the show is a massive success with unprecedented ratings and a worldwide hit, the vast majority loves it and rightly so.

Deal with it.

And then genius LF tells Cersei that he has Sansa and has married her off to Ramsay.

LF has brilliant schemes in motion and then... Fuck it. I guess I'll ditch my wards and run to KL, oh, and the Boltons are overtly giving you the finger Cersei. They seem to be marrying a criminal wanted by the crown.

This is so much better than the books could ever have been.

See, I even agree with you, that was strange and not very logical. F*** it, i say it, it was stupid or at least I didn't understand his motivations behind it at all.

But I applaud the decision to send Sansa to Winterfell instead of leaving her at the Vale diddling her thumbs. But.. they could and shoulöd have sent her in a different way.

Hahahahahahahaha. Yes. When you are wildly successful at making a popular show, you can't find work ever again.

Yes, definitely :lol: D&D have really messed up and will surely be unemployed from now on. I mean, most successful season ever, most watched episode ever, a show that is universally loved and praised and an author who has become a multi-millionaire because of it. But apparently they forced said author into selling them his ending and butchered the amazing storylines from Feast and Dance like Quentyn, Tyrion's wondrous wanderings, the industrious Queen Dany in marvellous Meereen and gallant Aegon... those hacks!

But that's the point at that part of their story. Dany is lost and is trying to find her way again. That's the point of the Daznak's Pit scene when she embraces her heritage for the first time in a long while. Tyrion is a mess and quite reasonably so given what happened in ASOS.

I didn't like Feast at all on first read. Like you I wanted to read about Tyrion particularly. There are problems with it but on reread you do start to notice the qualities in it.

There are maybe one or two too many Brienne chapters going nowhere and we probably didn't need to see Areo Hotah's or Arys Oakheart's POV in Dorne. And in Dance we could have had Quentyn turn up in Meereen without his POV in getting there after establishing through Dorne chapters that he is going there. There are problems but there are also a number of genuinely great chapters and sequences. Some editing tweaks and they wouldn't be that far off books 1-3, though clearly that ship has sailed.

These flaws you mention are much more glaring in my perception and sully my experience to the point that I can't enjoy those books any more - especially given the brilliance of the preceding Storm. It's like discovering a piece of offal in your cup of Dornish Red. The whole cup is swill after that.

And besides, I argue that people will try really hard to find a gem in anything. There are even some misguided Jordan fans who defend the infamous A Crossroads of Twilight to death over at Goodreads and spout about "character development while travelling", "worldbuilding", etc.. Interesting enough the same excuses one hears about Feast and Dance.

protar, you're discussing with a troll. A lame one.

Off with you, troll! Be banished to the warren of ever-whining, where thou hast crawled forth! Where do trolls go?

But once you get over your bitterness about Tyrion not being in Feast, it's really a great book with some of the best scenes in the series. You didn't like Vengeance. Justice. Fire and Blood. ???

First I was bitter about Tyrion not being in Feast. Then I was bitter when I read his "exploits" in Dance. When people complain about D&D's character assissination I mournfully point them to Tyrion and Dany in Dance - or as I like to call them "swimming with turtles" and "doing nothing for hundreds of pages".

So it's okay for you to subjectively rate the Finale a 10/10, but it's not okay for book readers to rate Feast and Dance 10/10.

Got it, you like the show because boobs and are intolerent of other opinions and tastes.

I would recommend that everyone ignore this troll, he is obviously here just to be a dick for laughs.

Where did I say that? Of course it's ok for them to rate it however the heck they want. I just pity them for their bad taste and laughable attempts to justify it.

And btw, you are trolling the rate thread with your tired circle-jerk - off to the rant and rave asylum with you!

If a lot of people attach meaning to something, this thing then becomes meaningful and aquires meaning in totally subjective ways. Shakespeare is the best example. The Tempest has been interpreted in myriad ways (post-colonial, feministic, etc..) and the literature written about it fills libraries. Different cultures and ages attach meaning in different ways. Picasso's Guernica might well be interpreted totally different than today in a hundred years. And that won't be better or worse than today, only different. Because all art is subjective.

So back to the topic - I loved the season's finale and subjectively rate it a 10. I think people who rated it a 1 have shitty taste and are self-righteous whiners and nerdy book-apologists who are in desperate denial about the glaring drop in quality in Feast and Dance and try to shift blame to the show in a pitiful attempt to exonerate GRRM. But hey, that's just me :)

Art needs a meaning, that's what grades mostly abstract art nowadays.

And meaning is subjective. Thanks for agreeing with me.

Nope. Someone thinks Stephenie Meyer is a better writer than, say, Haruki Murakami, they're wrong. And a cretin.

Keep denying it, it won't help you. All art is subjective, there is no good or bad, only opinions backed by the majority or not. Who knows, maybe in a hundred years a legion of book critics will find hidden meanings galore in Meyer's books, universities will be named after her and nobel prize winners will do a pilgrimage to her grave. Who can say? Van Gogh was ridiculed as well and considered trash during his lifetime. And now?

A few critics are already saying the show has gotten boring and nonsensical. Even Unsullied are noticing the show's own logic is disordered and uneven. A lot of people who reviewed the show is also abandoning the ship.

I think next season we will find out how much damaged this season has caused to the franchise. If Martin manages to release the book before the season starts, that will be the killing blow.

Keep dreaming. Why don't you re-read Quentyn and Aegon in the meantime and try to convince everybody here again why they should have been included in the show. That should keep us amused.

But they would be wrong, because quality is not subjective. It doesn't matter how many more people like Kanye West better than JS Bach.

Of course it is subjective. It is just a matter of general consensus. As long as millions of fan and critics agree that something is of high quality, it is. Be free to not like the Beatles but you will always be the lone whiner in the corner who tries desperately to be acknowledged. Just like your opinion about the show actually.

Do you actually think it's all they mind, don't you?

You should read a lot of interviews from authors who are very discontent on how the movie adaptations have treated their books. Roald Dahl, Susanna Kaysen and Michael Ende come to my mind (Ende even sued the producers). Gabriel García Márquez never allowed "100 years of solitude" to be adapted on screen because he knew mostly producers wouldn't get the story right.

GRRM is not some random writer that appeared out of nowhere. He's been writing before D&D even got to High School. He has a powerful name in the industry of books and bookselling. Any young author that finds out GRRM, named the third more powerful writer, could do nothing to protect his own work from HBO's changes and deviations, would thing twice before giving them the rights.

You naivety is endearing. It really is.

I didn't ask what things YOU consider to be more interesting. I'm saying what the show has done that is more interesting that those things.

All you say "it's a filler! it's a filler!". The greyjoys are much of a filler that they are casting Euron next season, lol.

And if you think show Tyene was better than the books, well, it's your taste the one that cannot be salvaged.

If you think Quentyn and new "hey, I'm a Targaryen too!" Aegon are interesting, you have the worst taste ever, sorry to put it so bluntly. It's more interesting to watch paint dry than re-read the Quentyn "story arc".

And at least show Tyene showed us some awesome boobs, so this was more bang for your buck than the whole Dorne mess in the books ("I am Darkstar and I am of the night" :lol: )

And yes, I'm sure D&D will be able to choose their future projects. But I doubt any author would want them to adapt their works again.

Of course. No author would want them to make him a massive hit and a multi-millionaire *facepalm*