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Black Crow

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  • Birthday 04/15/1954

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  1. The problem is that we and Our Mel are so far from the original that we don't know how much of the prophecy is real and how much is metaphorical, especially as there are different versions of those myths/prophecies floating about, which may not necessarily relate to the same thing. Mel came to the Wall proclaiming her version of the Azor Ahai story, Saladhor Saan told another, and seemingly [albeit JNR disagrees] there's another version in the Jade Companion. Mel claims the story was written down [not necessarily originating] in the books of Asshai 3,000 years ago and Aemon says she's talking about the Battle for the Dawn. He has read the Jade Companion so knows what she is talking about. She thinks he's talking about the Prince, but he refers to the Targaryens being mistaken about it for 1,000 years. The two therefore may not be one and the same and neither has anything to do with Westeros
  2. I'm still minded of that SSM which said that the three heads of the dragon need not be Targaryens. That immediately tells me that they need not be siblings and while there was a popular theory at the time that the heads equated to dragon-riders and that the SSM could be interpreted as hinting Tyrion might be one of the three, I'm more inclined to go with Alienarea's entirely sensible suggestion that it in fact relates to a triumvirate. They might also be dragonriders or at least two of them might if one isn't a Targaryen, but being a head and a dragonrider clearly aren't synonymous
  3. I still think that the parvenu Targaryens are the red herring in all of this and that Bloodraven's real significance lies in his being Bran Blackwood of Raventree Hall rather than a Targaryen by-blow, just as Jon's lies in his being a son of Winterfell rather than another Targaryen by-blow. All of Bran Blackwood's magic and eldritch connections lie with the ravens and the trees rather than with dragons, just as Jon's come from the wolves. Whether there are wrongs to be righted or not, or rather whatever the nature and history of those wrongs they lie deep in the history of Westeros and its own peoples.
  4. Black Crow

    Heresy 225 and the Snowflakes of Doom

    I never suggested that the Prince came into the conversation. Mel was talking about Stannis and the sword and proclaiming him as Azor Ahai returned. Aemon was recommending Jon to read up on Azor Ahai, not the Prince, presumably because Mel was telling a different story from that set out in the Companion
  5. Black Crow

    Heresy 225 and the Snowflakes of Doom

    It might be interesting if we knew what it said but I got the very clear impression when reading that passage that Aemon was warning Jon that she was talking mince and that what the Jade Companion revealed was a very different version of the story - just as Saladhor San warned Davos
  6. Welcome to Heresy 226, the latest chapter in a thread which began 8 years ago as The Wall, The Watch and a Heresy, and has been running continuously ever since, racking up well over 89,000 posts in the process. So what’s it all about and why has it been so successful? The short answer is that we look in a lot of depth at the Song of Ice and Fire, as it was originally outlined in GRRM’s 1993 synopsis. The story as it has actually been written has moved a long way since then of course, but broadly speaking we still follow the same premise then as now that the story is about Westeros and about its ancient Stark family, rather than the parvenu Targaryen succession and some mythic Middle-Eastern hero known as Azor Ahai. That's why, here and in the back-issues you’ll find more information and discussion than anywhere else on the Westeros forum anent the Wall, the Watch and the Otherlands which lie beyond. And as for the Heresy, well that revolves around discussion not only of the true nature and origins of the Others, but also of the true nature of the Starks and their direwolves and their connection to Winter. Currently, there's an argument going on about the nature of the Others, with Sweet Sunray and friends considering a scientific approach, while others among us favour the magic and the likelihood that the white walkers were once Starks and may be the old kings of Winter come again. There is after all an old heretic joke that in the end this may not be the story of the dragons saving Westeros from the Others, but of the Others saving Westeros from the Dragons. So off we go, but remember that another reason why this thread has lasted so long and prospered is that while we disagree all the time, the basic rule in the strap line below has always been cheerfully observed, for which I thank you all.
  7. Black Crow

    Heresy 225 and the Snowflakes of Doom

    Just before I start Heresy 226 I think that its worth pointing out that there are at least two aspects to this hero business. The discussion above is concentrating on the Targaryen aspect but the Azor Ahai nonsense comes from out east and is unconnected with dragons, except insofar as Azor Ahai slew a monster which can plausibly be identified as a dragon
  8. Black Crow

    Heresy 225 and the Snowflakes of Doom

    I do have a recollection of an SSM in which GRRM said that the third head of the dragon need not be a Targaryen
  9. Black Crow

    Heresy 225 and the Snowflakes of Doom

    Perish the thought. How dare you try to suggest using common sense
  10. Black Crow

    Heresy 225 and the Snowflakes of Doom

    Ah, you misunderstand me. What I meant was that far from identifying Jon as the Prince that was Promised, Aemon Targaryen identified him first and foremost as a son of Winterfell, with a role of his own. Sure its possible for them to be one and the same but I've always read that passage as GRRM telling us that Jon's importance lies in his being a Stark of Winterfell rather than a reincarnated oriental super-hero.
  11. Black Crow

    Heresy 225 and the Snowflakes of Doom

    And conversely Aemon Targaryen very forcefully identifies Jon Snow as a son of Winterfell, whose duty is to defend the Wall - "it must be you or no-one"
  12. Black Crow

    Heresy 225 and the Snowflakes of Doom

    GRRM has confessed to inconsistent eye colour in the past - referring as I recall to Val
  13. Black Crow

    The appearance of The Others

    GRRM did say in 2012: “(We’ll learn more about their) history, certainly, but I don’t know about culture,” he said. “I don’t know if they have a culture.” The reference to culture, although a direct response to an interview question, is significant because if they don't have a culture of their very own, whose culture do they have? After all, he also said that when Sam pinked Ser Puddles "he broke the spell holding him together."
  14. Black Crow

    R+L=J v.166

    Anent "Varys" or rather Rugen, its worth bearing in mind that we have no independent confirmation of his origin [Pycelle doesn't count] or indeed that he really is a eunuch. When he visits Lord Eddard in prison he has stubble on his chin and in the epilogue to ADwD his voice deepens. A eunuch is despised, especially when accompanied by strong perfume and an effeminate manner and no-one is going to go looking for Rugen under such a disguise
  15. Black Crow

    The appearance of The Others

    This was written by Tommy Patterson the artist who drew the comic book version I had many talks with George. He told me of the ice swords, and the reflective, camouflaging armor that picks up the images of the things around it like a clear, still pond. He spoke a lot about what they were not, but what they were was harder to put into words. Here is what George said, in one e-mail: 'The Others are not dead. They are strange, beautiful… think, oh… the Sidhe made of ice, something like that… a different sort of life… inhuman, elegant, dangerous.”