Black Crow

Still alive, despite the weather here

Had he been a dragonslayer, he would have known to duck

toss away

Totally off-topic, but GRRM's latest Notablog entry has announced that HBO are doing a series of the Dunk and Egg stories

As to the first, you'll need to ask Nadden, but if I recall aright, his argument was that the White Walkers are not wargs, but reflections in his mirror. I may be mistaken, but he can best explain As to the second, possibly, but we'll have to wait and see. Clearly Patchface is being controlled by someone [or something] as yet unknown

I don't think that the thread is being hi-jacked. As Melifeather says, this is the way that Heresy has worked for years However... As I also said earlier. This is a novel, not an account of an actual historical event. It all exists in GRRM's head and on GRRM's pages; nowhere else. So rocks - or mirrors are found there, not our our heads GRRM describes a report of dead bodies lying around a camp-site with a shelter built against a rock. Then the three rangers actually arrive there and find no bodies. Understandable puzzlement. One ranger remains behind with the horses and drops out of the narrative until much later. Of the other two, one is sent up a tree to see if there is any sign of a fire further away. The remaining ranger advances into the former camp. Movement is seen in the wood. First a single individual emerges to face Ser Waymar, the ranger in the camp, then others join him. Ser Waymar challenges. The two face off and the leading figure fights then kills him. This episode is largely witnessed by the ranger up the tree, but there's no reason to suppose its not happening as described. At no point in the text is there the remotest suggestion that that the rock against which the shelter is built is a black mirror/obsidian. As I said before, although unlikely this is a fantasy so its possible, but... the author needs to tell us. He doesn't even suggest it. This is important because the object of this chapter is to introduce us to the White Walkers. If it is really intended to reveal them as an illusion in a mirror, then GRRM needs to show that. He needs to reveal it to us on the page, then or afterwards. Its important on the other hand to introduce the Walkers as real because other characters see them too as the story goes on, most notably thus far when Sam stabs one below the Fist

Exactly so, and neither are the other figures that Will sees moving through the wood and then circling around Waymar - and nor of course is the one pinked by Sam

Yeah, I don't post much myself these days, but I still look in both to the thread and to GRRM's blog. Why ? Well hope springs eternal. Take care of yourself, enjoy those other things [I do too], but at least look in from time to time

Cos a great rock is exactly that. Its a big stone. That is very different from an obsidian mirror. As Melifeather pointed out, obsidian is glass not rock. You could in theory split it in such a way as to produce a clean and shiny face. Its not natural, but hey this is a work of fantasy so why not. But... Its also a story and as we ourselves can't see this wondrous mirror it's GRRM's task to let us know that its there. Instead, he just speaks of a great rock. I've been out there, seen them, climbed them. The "frozen fire" in Ser Waymar's eye? No, GRRM wrote of a fragment of frozen Ser Waymar's sword And there's still the White Walker who approached Sam.

However you want to interpret this, the passages I've quoted [and the later encounter with Sam] show that GRRM is thinking and talking about real individuals, not some projection from gemstones or images in a mirror. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar

Speaking as someone who has actually stealthily ranged in snowy woods in darkness, with malice aforethought, GRRM's description of the encounter [and the later one between Sam and Ser Puddles] is very straightforward and requires no mysterious mirrors, no projected reflections from gemstones or getting lost while climbing a tree. Ser Waymar was faced by an opponent, in stealth armour with a very sharp sword, accompanied by six companions. As to the nature of those companions: First a reminder of what Tommy Patterson the comic-book artist said anent the walkers I had many talks with George. He told me of the ice swords, and the reflective, camouflaging armor that picks up the images of the things around it like a clear, still pond. He spoke a lot about what they were not, but what they were was harder to put into words. Here is what George said, in one e-mail: 'The Others are not dead. They are strange, beautiful… think, oh… the Sidhe made of ice, something like that… a different sort of life… inhuman, elegant, dangerous.” And then an older post in which I wrote 16 March 2015 - 04:47 PM "In an interruption to our advertised program I'm watching a feature on Sky Atlantic, providing a catch up on the HBO series thus far and featuring interviews with [among others] GRRM, who has just confirmed that when Sam pinked Ser Puddles "he broke the spell holding him together." In other words the walkers are created and sustained by magic, which begs the rather obvious questions as to who might be working the magic and why?

Well said Melifeather. Sums it up nicely

That's not what the prologue as written says. Its pretty straightforward

Probably not. Old Nan speaks of them coming for the first time during the Long Night If we look at this sequence it not only makes sense but completely overturns the popular scenario peddled by Our Mel, ie; 1. Regular seasons and peoples - including [among others] skinchangers/wargs 2. Enter the Dragons and the prospect of the Fiery hell of an endless summer 3. The Old Gods fight back by blocking it with the Long Night 4. This works in the short term but the regular seasons are screwed 5. A final battle is brewing and the Targaryens [and Mel] aint the good guys

Something else to consider here is the nature of the blue-eyed lot. Although I contrasted them with the Dragons, I wouldn't necessarily equate them I still hold by my earlier theory that the Walkers are skinchangers/wargs, who have escaped flesh hosts to create new ones of snow and ice and cold. I won't trouble you by repeating the essay, but the point is that the Walkers may not be new in themselves but are "winterised" Wargs, adapted to suit a Long Night imposed on them by the appearance of the Dragons. night