Jump to content

Black Crow

Members
  • Content count

    19,581
  • Joined

  • Last visited

About Black Crow

  • Rank
    Heretic
  • Birthday 04/15/1954

Profile Information

  • Gender
    Male
  • Location
    Scotland/North England

Recent Profile Visitors

The recent visitors block is disabled and is not being shown to other users.

  1. Black Crow

    Heresy 213 Death aint what it used to be

    Hodor went bathing there too and if I recall more than once
  2. Black Crow

    Heresy 213 Death aint what it used to be

    GRRM has repeated said that his story and the mummers version are two entirely separate stories. Yes compromises do have to be made when translating between different mediums, but the nature of those changes allied to the fact that the last two seasons of the show have taken the story on beyond the books has widened the inevitable gulf enormously and I really wouldn't be surprised if A Dream of Spring turns out to be GRRM's revenge
  3. Black Crow

    Heresy 213 Death aint what it used to be

    No-one has ever mentioned GRRM letting anybody see a draft. The mummers started off with the published story and from time to time went and asked him questions to which they appear to have received gnomic answers
  4. Black Crow

    Heresy 213 Death aint what it used to be

    Oh, its very easy. If its in ADwD or its predecessors then its by GRRM, otherwise unless GRRM tells us different its by the mummers
  5. Black Crow

    Heresy 213 Death aint what it used to be

    I agree that if Shireen ends up on the barbie it will be Mad Selyse of the hairy lip who places her there rather than Stannis. I really don't see Stannis doing that, especially as he has made it clear [in the book at least] that he is his own man - not Mel's. However, I do have a caveat about the whole burning scenario. Shireen has Greyscale - a realisation that gave Val the screaming ab dabs and suggests a connection with GRRM's prediction that disease is going to figure heavily in the story to come
  6. Black Crow

    Heresy 213 Death aint what it used to be

    I agree. we can be confident from GRRM's remarks quoted at the beginning of this thread that Jon will continue to have a significant role in the story, but given the build up I'm not looking any more for a non-fatal wounding, but rather some kind of resurrection and that resurrection won't be simple and straightforward. GRRM has already warned us by example that whatever the mechanism it will have serious consequences.
  7. Black Crow

    Heresy 213 Death aint what it used to be

    I'm not sure how relevant it is any more. Once upon a time the mummers version did, arguably, provide spoilers and we miserable heretics used to get smug when certain things we had prophesied came to pass, but latterly it has diverged so far from the books and what the books are about, that nothing in the mummers' show can be accepted as real. Where we are now is working on the text and defying the mummers' version
  8. Black Crow

    Heresy 213 Death aint what it used to be

    The big problem we have at the moment is that in the early days of the mummers version we could see what they had cut out, and to an extent could see why it had been cut out and why it may not matter because we had the original text to refer to. Now, we know that the butchering and re-imagining has continued, but because we don't have a text to compare with the mummers farce we don't know whether anything is true, has been condensed and changed by way of a short-cut or is a total work of fiction - in terms of fidelity to what GRRM is writing. We do know of course that GRRM has grumbled about characters being killed off prematurely; characters who still have not just a role but a purpose in the story to come. We're also of course losing a lot anyway, just as the BBC version of Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell lost all of the deep magic from the book, which far from being a mere detail was what actually makes the book the masterpiece which it is. Similarly, just by way of a single example, in the mummers version, the consequences of Beric Dondarrion's resurrection were never explored, far less the yet more terrible consequences of bringing back Catelyn Stark from the dead, and that in turn has permitted the mummers to bring another prominent character from the dead, again as I understand without obvious consequences. Yet everything in GRRM's work has consequences. We have seen this with bringing the Lightning Rod and Mrs Stark back from the dead and how they have been affected by it. Both were brought back by Fire [as was Danaerys the Dragonlord] and given that this is the Song of Ice and Fire we can expect the said prominent character to come back - or rather be preserved by Ice rather than consumed by Fire - with a whole set of very different consequences. And the trouble there of course is that the mummers didn't bother to include the character most likely to accomplish this, far less kill her off too early, leaving the wrong lot to do the deed.
  9. Black Crow

    Heresy 213 Death aint what it used to be

    I wouldn't necessarily be quite so pessimistic, if the battle of Meereen turns into a "with one bound Dany was free" moment, although I think that there are a number of other knots that need a swift chopping motion to reduce the bloated cast and plot-lines. From what GRRM has said, he is looking towards the cleansing power of blizzards, disease and starvation - none of which are so swft and sudden as a bloody battle
  10. Black Crow

    Heresy 213 Death aint what it used to be

    There were some details that were added later — but pretty much the actual endgame, the main climactic moments, we had in mind then. We had ninety percent of this crucial chunk of the story for the final season, and we were mainly talking to George to see how our notion of where things ended up jibed with his notion. I wonder how carefully these words were picked. Story-lines, the logistics to support those story lines and the actual words spoken by the chosen actors all have to be sorted out before anybody sets foot on the set [ok, I have hastilyly re-written lines while sitting cross legged in a corner of the set, while an actor spoke what was on the preceding page - but it was very much a shoestring production] and as I read the above they had a their ending all all roughed out. What this doesn't say is that IF GRRM revealed all, they went home and rewrote their version. These things have a momentum and once you've ordered and trained the troupe of dancing elephants it aint easy to cancel. Rather than make major changes to conform to GRRM's vision I rather expect that this meeting was about managing the differences. It does, however confirm that GRRM has figured his ending
  11. Black Crow

    Heresy 213 Death aint what it used to be

    Depends how you see the Night's King. I think that the real one, per the book, is no more than what we're told in the story: a Stark who went over to the dark side. We can already see Bran being insidiously drawn to the dark side, but unlike anything we might yet see [assuming we watch it] in the Mummers version, there's going to be no transformation into a mythical character, but rather the Bran we know, developing powers and using them for the best of intentions.
  12. Black Crow

    Heresy 213 Death aint what it used to be

    Quite, and that's where the architectural solution referred to by SirArthur comes in. The Night's King presented by the Mummers is a Manx cat which they have created to provide a two-dimensional protagonist to fill in for something much more complicated and subtle which they either haven't been told of or at least not been told enough of and which as they admit isn't capable of translation to television.
  13. Black Crow

    Heresy 213 Death aint what it used to be

    Just to amplify why I believe that any resurrection which may be required is more likely to be accomplished by Ice rather than Fire: Yeah, OK Mel is on site and can do weird stuff, and although we haven't actually seen her raise the dead her fellow red priest Thoros did it. Against that, however, using her seems just a little bit obvious, and far more importantly perpetuates a unicameral reading of the text which quite frankly isn't justified. This is the Song of Ice and Fire and thus far we haven't really encountered a protagonist for the latter. We've seen what happens to those raised or transformed by Fire from Danaerys on down but the other lot are a complete mystery, with just a hint but no more from Coldhands the Russian and we need to see the other side; the process and the consequences. Because the books haven't advanced so far the Mummers ducked the issue by creating their non-canonical Nights King, but I believe that we miserable readers are going to get a very different story revolving around Jon.
  14. Black Crow

    Heresy 213 Death aint what it used to be

    Well exactly. If he is a mere wight, whether of Ice or Fire [and I very much doubt the latter] his parentage will be of no interest to him
×