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Black Crow

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About Black Crow

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  • Birthday 04/15/1954

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  1. Welcome to Heresy 228, the latest iteration of the long-running thread which takes a sideways look at this long-running tale of ordinary country-folk. The odd subtitle derives from Lord Aegon the Compromiser pointing out that we're looking not only at 228 volumes [never less than 400 posts] but eight years of often vigorous discussion! Anyway,the featured topic for page one, by popular request, is prophecy which in turn derives from LynnS and her suggestion that the real focus of Lord Eddard's notorious fever dream may not be a supposed combination of events at the "tower of joy" [no initial caps] but the apparent background of blood red skies and blue petals. Is it actually some kind of prophecy anent Ice and Fire ? That in turn of course begs discussion of prophecy and its place in the story. The short answer of course is that it dominates much of it, but as GRRM has made clear in both text and SSM, prophecies should not be relied on or treated literally. The same, obviously goes with bells on when it comes to dreams and in particular fever dreams, especially when we know that greenseers, whether Bryn Blackwood or anyone else communicate by way of dreams. It does indeed, as LynnS proposes, compel us to look at that "old dream" in a new light .
  2. Black Crow

    Heresy 227 and the Great Turtle

    Oh I do like this suggestion. I've just crawled out of my pit and about to head off to work, but I'll try and get Heresy 228 sorted out in about 10 hours - unless anybody [Corbon?] wants to take a guest spot in the meantime.
  3. Black Crow

    Heresy 227 and the Great Turtle

    Ah well, that one we can absolutely agree on. The King's Guard certainly did know what was in the tower, but we don't know what was in the tower and I really won't be surprised at the end of the day to learn that the King's Guard knew that there was nothing in the tower
  4. Black Crow

    Heresy 227 and the Great Turtle

    Well, we plainly need to agree to cheerfully disagree on this one because as you say context is everything and in this particular context the questioner was challenging GRRM to confirm a hypothesis existing in the questioner's mind but not on the page. There is unquestionably a mystery of some kind surrounding the dream, but one capable of different interpretations and GRRM simply warned the interviewer that it is more complicated than he assumed.
  5. Black Crow

    Heresy 227 and the Great Turtle

    It also raises a question. If R+L=J and we accept the scenario of the Kings Guard fighting to the death in order to protect their infant monarch, then we have it revealed in what is indeed an outstanding scene, albeit Jon himself is unmentioned and the incident is never mentioned again. That, like the later reference to Craster's sons, might simply be read as evidence of his genius as a writer. He drops a significant clue and then leaves us to it. Except that he doesn't. He issues a health warning. It doesn't necessarily mean what people think it does. Its reasonable to conclude that there's a connection between the fight and Lyanna's death, but if R+L=J why should it matter that the dream may not be literal?
  6. Black Crow

    Heresy 227 and the Great Turtle

    Not a bad one even though I say so myself, but as to the wider story and its outcomes I'd just make a couple of points. GRRM has said that he knows the ending and hasn't changed it despite reader speculation. I've no reason to doubt it, but 1993 was nigh on 27 years ago and there's something seriously wrong with him if he hasn't tinkered with the road map and completely changed some of the routes to that ending. There are, after all, significant differences already between the synopsis and the book as written. That is also where the R+L=J theory comes into question, because its far more than a straightforward matter of counting on fingers and deciding that 1 + 1 + 2, sorted. Its all the baggage that comes with it and all the imagined significances attaching to that particular equation. The problem is where we are in the book. In the original projected three volume version it appears that Jon [and Arya] learn he's not Lord Eddard's son until very late in the day. Here in the as-written version we're eagerly awaiting book 6 of 7 and it hasn't happened yet. Nor, given the current situation is it likely to happen until book 7 of 7. Whatever the actual outcome its a wrapping up rather than a crucial plot issue - in fact its never been a plot issue since the initial chapters establishing that he is the bastard. The point being, that it seems too late in the day for it to assume the significance accorded it by the faithful. GRRM doresn't strike me as working towards a "with one bound Jack was free" ending. His true parentage is an issue and one which will be resolved while he's above ground according to GRRM, but this whole saga doesn't revolve around it.
  7. Black Crow

    Heresy 227 and the Great Turtle

    For a bit of light relief have a chuckle over this nonsense - which is quite typical of the stuff thrown up by Google News https://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/books/1202397/Game-of-Thrones-Jon-Snow-dead-Winds-of-Winter-Stark-George-RR-Martin-direwolf-interview For the Ribbit [sorry Reddit] crowd GRRM's quoting Lord Eddard's advice that the lone wolf dies but the pack survives has been completely turned on its head to look for clues about which Stark dies next, rather than GRRM telling us that the currently scattered family is going to survive and perhaps even prosper only by coming together again
  8. Black Crow

    Heresy 227 and the Great Turtle

    There could be a really simple reason for all of this. GRRM has a bit of a task in front of him in that ASoIF is more than the game of thrones, which in reality fizzled out back when the Lannisters cut off Lord Eddard's head. You can write a seguel to that event easily enough. GRRM outlines it in his original synopsis. The difficulty revolves around the horror from the north and the Stark version of the Musgrave ritual. Not straightforward. Having decided that he couldn't resolve it before the Mummers' version had run its course - and perhaps disliking the way it was turning out - he put on the brakes. She-Wolves and anything else which would spoil his outcome for ASoIF goes on hold and in the meantime the harmless Targ spin off keeps him writing.
  9. Black Crow

    Heresy 227 and the Great Turtle

    I think that there's going to be a fairly fundamental problem with the Targaryen series in the potential time-span. In his original synopsis for ASOIF said that it was going to be a generational thing; following the children of Winterfell as they grew up and shaped or were shaped by the world around them. While the Mummers may have failed spectacularly they did indeed follow this basic premise and casualties aside the major characters in the last episode were met in the first. Is House of the Dragon going to be similarly confined but set 200 years before AGoT or is it going to be a chronicle of House targaryen through the ages?
  10. Black Crow

    Heresy 227 and the Great Turtle

    I took what we've been told as simply the First Men tooling up and using their bronze swords and their horses to conquer the place and shove the indigenous tree-huggers into the reservation
  11. Black Crow

    Heresy 227 and the Great Turtle

    It all depends of course on how you define canon. So far as the text goes it certainly isn't canon. There is a very well established theory spilling into an article of faith, that it is canon, and the Mummers' "made it so" in their show, but their show, as GRRM has made very clear of late isn't his story, and while it doesn't rule out R+L=J the ending of the mummers' farce argues against it being canon, since it turned out to be such a damp squib. Now of course there is a middle way in that R+L=J may turn out to be true, but of no consequence in the end, ie; despite being predicted with such vehemence, Jon Snow is not Azor Ahai and nor does he lead the Royal Targaryen Airforce to victory before parking himself of the Iron Throne. In that sense R+L=J might literally be true and therefore canon, but all the baggage which came with the theory isn't. Certainly to judge by some comments posted on that dead horse, there is an inkling over there that things are not going to turn out as proclaimed.
  12. Black Crow

    Heresy 227 and the Great Turtle

    Agreed; after all most of this is what Maester Lewin told us. I think the simple problem with Bloodmoon was two-fold; first its too remote from the AGoT show, requires a fantasy element deliberately cut from that show and will revolve around the Musgrave ritual not yet revealed in the book; and the secondly the Targaryen Show with sex, drugs and dragons is a no-brainer for non-readers
  13. Black Crow

    Heresy 227 and the Great Turtle

    Agreed and I think that we've the old difference between communicating and warging. Bloodraven, as we've seen, can come to people in dreams, but that's rather different from skinchanging. The latter may well be possible at a distance when a link has already been established, but I don't see it working otherwise. A point worth looking at, is how Bloodraven established the link with Bran in the first place?
  14. Black Crow

    Heresy 227 and the Great Turtle

    Pre-occupied or dead, doesn't really signify in this case. I'm open to either, but so far as the written story goes he's actually a relatively minor character and no matter how welcome his return, its hardly going to be a Holy Shit moment and certainly not on the level of Bran's elevation.
  15. Black Crow

    Heresy 227 and the Great Turtle

    I'll let JNR speak for himself, but to my mind I think that Bran will play a key role in the return of House Stark. He's already communicating and perhaps even manipulating Jon and will certainly be doing so in future, and then there's the potential consequences of Sansa and the snowflake communion. Arya too has the craft of course and in short I can see Bran knitting them all together again. Something to bear in mind is a recent comment by the Mummers that they deliberately cut out the fantasy - other than obvious things like dragons - and this absence is something we've discussed in these here parts before because a great big gaping hole in their version is the failure to address the Musgrave Ritual, and what's going on with the children of Winterfell. Perfectly understandable in choosing to concentrate on the game of thrones, but GRRM isn't writing that story. Its only one played out facet of The Song of Ice and Fire, which is a fundamentally different story.
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