Black Crow

On 4/11/2024 at 4:07 PM, LynnS said:

I'd like to bring up this concept of dreaming or the dreamtime relating to Maori legends.  Here's some blurbs from wikipedia.  Does any of this sound familiar?

Isn't this what Leaf says to Bran about the CotF -that they go into the earth, the stones and the trees.  Varamyr experiences this on his true death before he starts his second life...

 

I'll cheerfully that I really don't know enough about the Dreamtime to comment sensibly, but it certainly sounds as though GRRM's "Dreamers" could well be connected to the Dreamtime rather than dreaming randomly so to speak  

As I said, its wide open to question whether the fall was metaphorical or exaggerated, but that introduction very clearly suggests that a significant and widely known event occurs - which hasn't so far happened in the published story.

32 minutes ago, Melifeather said:

Yeah, that does seem to be an accidental slip, however I guess it depends upon the definition of "fall". Technically the Wall did fall as soon as LC Jon Snow allowed the wildlings through the tunnels. Yes, there are still things beyond the Wall like the wight army that are (for now) still being contained, but with wildlings on the south side now, I would not be surprised if Winds begins with wights on the south side as well.

I also still like an old theory of LynnS where she posited that the Wall is blowing away, that originally the Wall drew the cold unto itself accumulating ice and snow through the ages, but that the blizzard that is now emanating - seemingly through Winterfell - is evidence that the reverse is happening. It is expelling itself in the form of a blizzard and blowing away - which would be a fulfillment of this Mirri Maz prophecy:

When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east is a reversal of time.

When the seas go dry could mean the Narrow Sea and other large bodies of water freezing over and allowing people to walk across.

"Mountains" blow in the wind like leaves could be explained as the Wall disintegrating and blowing away.

The "technicalities" are obviously open to interpretation, whether its blowing away, whether it may be said to have fallen because Jon let some of the Wildings through - escaping the real threat - or whether it literally comes down with a bump, but somehow I think that the slip is suggesting the latter option

I'd be tempted to say, curiously quiet, with nothing since that mention months ago of a seeing his UK publishers during a visit to London

Current Blog entry is about casting for Dunk and Egg

However...

Previous entry, posted by the Minions of Fevre River, concerns a colouring book and starts with this curious line:

Long before the Wall fell, the Targaryens reigned with fire and blood.

"Long before the Wall fell" !!!

Is this an inadvertent slip by his minions ?

On 2/11/2024 at 8:05 PM, Melifeather said:

That makes sense, but where did you read that little tidbit?

Winds, by all accounts, is massive in size and probably enough words for two books, but the words "a dream of spring" could just as easily be part of the final sentence if all of the major mysteries have been revealed in Winds.

The way I'm coming to see it is a simple question of logistics. 

On 2/7/2024 at 4:23 AM, Mace Cooterian said:

@LynnS As it turns out, a good friend had also recommended Ted Lasso, which my wife and I completed a few weeks ago.  Outstanding!  Without divulging too much, my wife found a recipe for the "Ted Lasso Biscuits".  Let's just say that when you taste them you will tell yourself..."f*** me.

Oh...back on the subject at hand.  Part of my daily routine (morning rituals) is to visit this site (specifically Heresy @Black Crow) to make sure that I'm not missing anything.  I'm looking for a smart response from my keyboard,  but that might be what George is asking from his.  It aint there.

I just wanted to check in with everyone and let you know......I miss you.  So many good writers and literary critics and analysisers.  I simply can't do what you guys/gals do.  So here is a call out to a few that have inspried me over the years....this list is not meant to exclude anyone who has contributed.  I merely wanted to mention a few in hopes that thay might say hello and check in.

In no particualr order:

@evita mgfs

@Frey family reunion

@Grey Words

@Little Wing

@Lummel

@Toccs

@wolfmaid7

The list is only a start and not intended to represent all that have contributed.  It was a spur of the moment, and let me end this long post with one more call out:

@Black Crow

 

Still here, still alive and still living in hope, though there's a growing suspicion GRRM may now be aiming to wrap with WoW

Sounds like it. A Christmas announcement on the blog could be worth looking out for

On 11/4/2023 at 3:51 PM, alienarea said:

Hi all, nothing special, just logging in to check you're hopefully all fine.

 

Still alive, despite the weather here

Had he been a dragonslayer, he would have known to duck

toss away 

Totally off-topic, but GRRM's latest Notablog entry has announced that HBO are doing a series of the Dunk and Egg stories

2 hours ago, Jaimeisnotazombie said:

Geez i haven't posted here in 10 years.

I just want to know how you think these mirrors effect the story and what their purpose would be? 

Also if the Others are wargs are they capable of warging Hodor or Patchface? 

As to the first, you'll need to ask Nadden, but if I recall aright, his argument was that the White Walkers are not wargs, but reflections in his mirror. I may be mistaken, but he can best explain

As to the second, possibly, but we'll have to wait and see. Clearly Patchface is being controlled by someone [or something] as yet unknown

I don't think that the thread is being hi-jacked. As Melifeather says, this is the way that Heresy has worked for years 

However...

As I also said earlier. This is a novel, not an account of an actual historical event. It all exists in GRRM's head and on GRRM's pages; nowhere else. So rocks - or mirrors are found there, not our our heads

GRRM describes a report of dead bodies lying around a camp-site with a shelter built against a rock. Then the three rangers actually arrive there and find no bodies. Understandable puzzlement. One ranger remains behind with the horses and drops out of the narrative until much later. Of the other two, one is sent up a tree to see if there is any sign of a fire further away. The remaining ranger advances into the former camp. Movement is seen in the wood. First a single individual emerges to face Ser Waymar, the ranger in the camp, then others join him. Ser Waymar challenges. The two face off and the leading figure fights then kills him. This episode is largely witnessed by the ranger up the tree, but there's no reason to suppose its not happening as described.

At no point in the text is there the remotest suggestion that that the rock against which the shelter is built is a black mirror/obsidian. As I said before, although unlikely this is a fantasy so its possible, but... the author needs to tell us. He doesn't even suggest it. This is important because the object of this chapter is to introduce us to the White Walkers. If it is really intended to reveal them as an illusion in a mirror, then GRRM needs to show that. He needs to reveal it to us on the page, then or afterwards.

Its important on the other hand to introduce the Walkers as real because other characters see them too as the story goes on, most notably thus far when Sam stabs one below the Fist

On 4/1/2023 at 9:03 PM, alienarea said:

I haven't been following the thread as it's obvious we are going in circles since a year or two, maybe five.

With every year passing by the chance of GRRM finishing the series is dwindling.

A while ago I posted that it is perfect as it is, with lose ends everwhere and lots of uncertainties - because this is a mirror of our lives.

I hope all of us live long, happy lives and move on peacefully.

When we move on, there will be things we are not to sure about, like who shot JFK, for example, and things we'll never  know (who will win the world cup in 2122?).

I've decided to focus on other things for the time being.

In case you miss my crackpots or want to keep in touch you can reach me at [email protected]

Take care!

Yeah, I don't post much myself these days, but I still look in both to the thread and to GRRM's blog. Why ? Well hope springs eternal. Take care of yourself, enjoy those other things [I do too], but at least look in from time to time 

14 hours ago, LynnS said:

I still like the idea of winterized wargs.  But were they such in the beginning?

Probably not. Old Nan speaks of them coming for the first time during the Long Night

If we look at this sequence it not only makes sense but completely overturns the popular scenario peddled by Our Mel, ie;

1. Regular seasons and peoples - including [among others] skinchangers/wargs

2. Enter the Dragons and the prospect of the Fiery hell of an endless summer

3. The Old Gods fight back by blocking it with the Long Night

4. This works in the short term but the regular seasons are screwed

5. A final battle is brewing and the Targaryens [and Mel] aint the good guys

Something else to consider here is the nature of the blue-eyed lot. Although I contrasted them with the Dragons, I wouldn't necessarily equate them

I still hold by my earlier theory that the Walkers are skinchangers/wargs, who have escaped flesh hosts to create new ones of snow and ice and cold. I won't trouble you by repeating the essay, but the point is that the Walkers may not be new in themselves but are "winterised" Wargs, adapted to suit a Long Night imposed on them by the appearance of the Dragons.

night

13 hours ago, alienarea said:

It would be an ironic twist, and I think on GRRM would like, if people in Westeros blame not being faithful to the old gods, breaking the pact with the CotF, slaying parts of your family, or a combination of those, for the long night, ...

... when it is really caused by some huge volcano(s) blowing up in the Essos.

Epilogue: the volcano(s) blowing up are caused by the Targaryen's creating dragons.

The Targaryens caused the long night!

PS: yes, he said it was magic and the moon split.

Mountains of the moon became a volcano.

 

Its not a bad idea. If we look at this logically [yes, yes, I know] Westeros and Essos both seem very ordinary and we've spent years discussing the historical parallels

There are, however, two things which are unique and which can't be explained away by "ordinary" mythology. On the one hand there's the Ice and with it the Long Night and the blue-eyed lot. On the other hand there's the Fire and the Dragons. The two are obviously connected and the Dragons are the more "alien" of the two, ie; it was the creating of the Dragons which screwed things up 

On 2/16/2023 at 11:14 AM, asongofheresy said:

I think Harold is suppose to be Harren but yeah this is the part of the transcript leaked from Alys Rivers audition, this may not be the final script on the show but the part where she claims to be a barn owl is interesting - I may search about mentions of owls in the series 

Aint that from Harry Potter ?

I believe that its a 2024 calendar image see GRRM's notablog for January 10

6 hours ago, asongofheresy said:

Yes, the time is a circle and we are back to the beginning - I didn't see the photo before and I may missed the hype of it but yeah they seem to be R&L, is it possible for GRRM to release TWOW in 2024 and reveal some info about the False Spring? 

I don't necessarily see it as circular - rather that the issue of Winter has always ben important and this is just a reminder

Ah, but that ending is about to be followed by the Winds of Winter - which rather suggests a continuation of that first prologue

As to the pretty picture. Seen it before. The immediate reaction is that its Rhaegar and Lyanna - and he looks glum 

14 hours ago, Aehole targaryen said:

I'm sure that plays a part, but Summerhall was built by the Targaryens, right? 100-120 years before A Game of Thrones. A fair bit younger than Winterfell. But the presumed ritual that went wrong there wraps up the balance nicely.

True and it references another Sherlock Holmes  text - the dog that barked in the night.

Or rather, of course, it didn't.

In this case Aegon Targaryen invaded Westeros and with the aid of his dragons proceeded to conquer everything in sight. Until he got to the North and agreed a treaty with the Lord of Winterfell. Then down south the Targaryens build Summerhall which has a so far undisclosed significance. 

2 hours ago, Aehole targaryen said:

It's interesting that it's assumed that Winterfell is Winter + fell (the verb) as I have always thought it was Winter + fell (the noun for mountain). Could be my Swedish priors since we use the cognate "fjäll." I assumed it meant that WF was so massive that it was likened to a mountain, combined with "fell" as in "deadly"

I wonder how much of word play will matter. In the Swedish translation Winter fell is named "Vinterhed" which would more directly translate to "Wintermoor." 

Anyway, I really like these heresies. I always thought there was something strange about the RLJ stuff as well as Stark's as House being less nice than what the current family would imply. The concept of the Musgrave ritual is also very interesting and I'm sure much can be discovered comparing the setup of Summerhall, Tower of Joy and Daenerys' pyre.

Coming from Scotland and currently living in Northumberland I've always read Winterfell as a noun - Vinterfed if you prefer, but the thought occurs to me, reading this post, that the Stark possession of Winterfell may be balanced by the Targaryen possession of Summerhall  

Various things...

seriously though. Heresy began way back in 2011 as the Wall, the Watch and a Heresy. The Heresy essentially was the suggestion that the then assumption that the Starks were good and that the Wall was mankind's last best hope against the horror from the North. We also had our doubts about some other conventional wisdoms such as R+L=J and so on its gone, offering a forum for a quirky, unconventional look at the story. 

I'm not sure that there's confusion. It seems pretty straightforward that Mels warning that she will be going too rather than predicting an unknown "other" red woman - which would be confusing