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Black Crow

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  1. Well the single hero, [whether its Jon Snow or anybody else] winning a big battle is going to be very difficult to end the multiple POVs unless everybody dies Bran the Tree on the other hand is a possibility and would be fitting in that prologue aside he began the story - and yes the Others may well will, especially if led by Lord Snow
  2. Moving slightly sideways, its worth considering that from the first page, this story has been told from multiple viewpoints, a big bang finale could be technically difficult
  3. I think that goes without saying and whatever happens in the end will not be a Return of the King scenario
  4. I don't know whether we need to regard Patchface as a significant individual, but at the same time he looks as he might be another example of a dead man walking on the dark side - say another Coldhands/Russian
  5. Perhaps its more sinister. As soon as a potential Hero is identified, somebody out there performs the public service of knocking him [or her] off their perch before they can start waving the damn sword about
  6. if we're keeping this simple and involving Ghost, then the obvious outcome is for him to return as a White Walker We saw in the Varamyr prologue to ADwD how Varamyr's body died, cutting his consciousness [or if you prefer Soul] loose to fly on the wind Jon, from what we've seen, having been is going through the same process, except that his soul is likely to go into Ghost rather than fly loose until captured by one of his own wolves Being a very powerful warg and paired with a direwolf rather than an ordinary beast of the field [something Varamyr never managed], not to mention of course being a major character, Jon is going to return, but as his original human body is a bit hacked about, the obvious course will be to form a new body from ice crystals. Thus Jon comes back and reveals what's on the other side
  7. All true, but I'd rather we kept to the real point and discussed where Jon Snow is going, since he clearly isn't going to be sitting on the Iron Throne with a made-up Targaryen name and riding dragons to victory as Azor Ahai
  8. It rather depends on how he's viewing the end of the story, or rather how he's getting to it He reaffirmed in that recent NotABlog post that he's got a good idea of where he's going, but the detail can be wayward. He works pretty solidly on the basis of POVs - working on several chapters at a time before wandering off to catch up with someone else. This may in turn require revision and rewriting of the original POV, but it may well [legitimately] mean that a particular POV may well have been written all the way up to and into WoW while other POVs are still battling through against the Winds. That would both help to account for the slowness of Winds while offering hope that Dream will be quicker And yes, as I recall the late Ned Stark and his brother Benjen did have a conversation in which a project [rebuilding some holdfasts] was admitted to be a dream of spring, ie something for the future rather than the present
  9. Passing comment in NotABlog which may be significant... Speaking of a re-issue of Fire and Blood GRRM "(And yes, this is the first of two volumes. The second will follow… through not till the WINDS have blown)."
  10. It does rather sound that way and if so he's probably being realistic. While I've no desire or expectation that he will pop his clogs any time soon, another year for WoW and then 10 or 12 more after that to wrap up ADoS does seem unrealistic. After all having written this he deserves to sir back and enjoy the acclamation
  11. Raising Jon as another Russian would, as discussed above, make a lot of sense, not least in providing the necessary balance between Ice and Fire which thus far is sadly lacking Something else worth bearing in mind when drawing odious comparisons with the Mummers' Farce is the timescale. Assuming he sticks with the advertised schedule GRRM still has two bloated books to go before putting his feet up. Dead or alive that's a lot of time for Jon to get where he's going
  12. I'm very much in agreement with this and its a major reason why I'm very strongly against R+L=J While I'm open these days to the possibility that Jon may indeed be the son of Rhaegar in a matter of simple family history, I remain opposed to the "high" notion back in the day that as a result Jon was going to be revealed as the rightful heir to the Iron Throne and was going to win Mel war when revealed as Azor Ahai. There may be Pretenders but this, as you say, will not be resolved by personal appearances by "Gods" Encouragingly, as I say, I think that this is confirmed by the Mummers' Farce. To the loudly expressed anguish of the faithful, it was indeed confirmed [claimed?] that R+L=J was true, but Jon never took the Iron Throne or turned into Azor Ahai. And that therefore comes back to the OP of this thread. Where is Jon actually going ?
  13. Not just explicit anent the differences, but positive anent his commitment to see it through
  14. Ultimately yes, I strongly believe that this is where this is going. Jon is going to emerge as the missing and so badly needed POV for Ice. Although GRRM has hinted at a darker turn in Jon I think that such a POV will provide a different picture to that painted by Mel
  15. That, I think, is a pretty important point. I'm dubious about Benjen, given that he essentially had a walk-on part early in the first book and hasn't been seen since. That's not to say he won't turn up again, but I really don't see him revealed as an important figure. Jon and/or Bran on the other hand has potential, but is it any more than that? Is there really a big bad on either side. In the books there's no sign of the Nights King who provided the enemy in the Mummers' version, and nor on the other hand is there an Azor Ahai or anybody else. Arguably Danaerys the Dragonlord might be shaping up to it, but if she is its not conscious, and that I think is true of a lot of others. Their actions and some of their motives may align with Ice or with Fire, but that's not the same as leading a crusade
  16. I'm wary of the entire concept of the Nights King 2.0 which I think owes too much to the Mummers' farce, but nevertheless given that Jon seems not destined to ascend to the Iron Throne, I and it appears others here, are more and more convinced that his his future does indeed lie in the north - and in the "other" side in the conflict between Ice and Fire
  17. Given the way that Bloodraven and the Children have actively sought out and are absorbing Bran I would say that they know exactly what they're getting
  18. It rather depends on how we define villains, and in his commentary GRRM has been very cautious about this. So far as the story so far goes we have two major differences in level In real time [for lack of a better way of putting it] there's a fairly straightforward conflict. The Lannisters are taking over Westeros and fighting off both their original rivals, such as the Starks and the Baratheons, and opportunists such as the Ironborn and the Targaryen pretenders. All of them are perfectly understandable. They may be good, bad or crazy, but we know who they are and where they're coming from Below that surface, there's another parallel conflict, which easy readers are seeing in Mel's terms. It's between Light and Dark, or if you prefer, Ice and Fire, but we don't really know what's going on. We're told a hero will arise [Azor Ahai]] to win an absolutely essential victory, but we're also starting to get suggestions that its more complicated, and above all at one and the same time while we're aware that we don't know what's on the other side there are suggestions that the Starks are leaning to the "other" side. Where do the Children stand, especially given Bran's situation? Why was it so important to be told Varamyr's story and indeed what's so important about skinchangers And going on from there, what of Jon? I can remember some years ago, one of the Faithful expressed a hope that a stabbed Jon would be revived and that his hair would be changed in the process to a silvery white, proclaiming his Targaryen heritage and purpose. So what if its not ?
  19. Something else to bear in mind is GRRM's dislike of black and white. We're gradually getting to know more of "the other side", most notably through Varamyr, it would make sense to delve deeper through Jon rather than exalt him as Azor Ahai
  20. I don't think that we necessarily need to get tied up in looking for the appearance of an actual Ice Dragon If these references are to have any significance I think its simply in pointing Jon towards that side of the conflict rather than the Valyrian/Fire so confidently predicted by the Faithful
  21. It also goes back to the OP. We don't know how much the Mummers actually know about how all of this ends, but... As subscribers to R+L=J it would be reasonable for them to present the story accordingly, with Jon revealed and taking the Iron Throne and of course defeating the Dark and Cold as Azor Ahai He didn't, much to the anguish of the Faithful. So what is his role/fate ?
  22. I think that you're right in suggesting that the Mummers' farce saw actions by characters who didn't make it on to the screen transferred to "established" characters - and Aegon [fake or otherwise] is an obvious one. Whatever his ultimate fate he's going to do things in the book[s] which will impact on the story and as he's not in the Mummers' version somebody else is going to have to do them. That being the case, "the tv scenes with Jon and Daenerys" very likely are scenes from the book involving "Daenerys and fAegon" - and if so, that and others may well reflect Jon's true destiny in the North
  23. There's no reason to suppose so far that Beric Dondarrion's pick me up didn't come from the Red lot However, if we turn back to Jon there's another possible parallel that deserves some exploration. Bloodraven was always assumed to be a Targaryen and right up to until Bran Stark enters a certain cave in the Haunted Forest, everything we hear about him tells us that Then, in the cave, we learn that although he has a Targaryen father, he's really Brynden/Bryn/Bran Blackwood, he's the Three-eyed Crow and his eldrich powers actually come from the Old lot not the Dragons Jon Snow, by popular report [among readers at least] also has a Targaryen father, but he's really a Stark of Winterfell with the powers of that house rather than the Dragons Then of course there's the Mummers' version which subscribes to R+L=J, but finishes off without his gaining the Iron Throne and killing off the Dragons rather than the Others...
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