nara

Stannis is free to remarry and have more children! But will it happen?

I like the references to Cersei burning down cities, because it supports the idea of Jaime eventually killing her Valonquar-style. (BTW, I wonder if we'll get the rest of the Maggy scene next week?)

I always hated that Jaime abandoned Cersei when she called for his help, because I felt it was motivated by her infidelity. It's a fine reason for him to be pissed off, but not sufficient for him to leave her to die IMO. (I remember yelling WTF and various versions of that when I read that part in AFFC.) I do believe that he will eventually kill her, but having him do it to save the city is much more satisfying than his motive being jealousy.

Also, given that Myrcella seems to be fully Team-Martell, I wonder if they are setting up a Jaime & Myrcella vs Cersei &Tommen clash. In particular, if Tommen launches an attack against the Faith and initiates some sort of massacre, becoming Joffrey 2.0, I can see Jaime thinking Myrcella would be a better ruler than him. The Dance of the Lions. But this is pure speculation on my part.

Double post

I tried to quote a bunch of stuff, but it didn’t work for some reason, so sorry for some redundancies.

• I thought this was an excellent episode for acting for all characters. I feel like some of the direction the actors get is “look completely expressionless”—this especially applies to Dany, Sansa, and Arya--and I think that has hurt the show. However, when they are allowed to show expressions, the results are great.

The North

• Very happy for the inclusion of “Egg, I dreamed I was old,” as well as the reminder that Maester Aemon was a Targ (for the non-book readers). They’ve left out a number of my favorite quotes, so happy to hear that one. RIP Maester Aemon.
• Theon-Sansa interaction was fantastic. I hope Sansa soons finds out the true extent of Theon’s damage. I also enjoyed Sansa needling Ramsay about his bastard status, though I expected her to remind him of how valuable she is to him.
• 2 mentions of Balon Greyjoy! Suggests that he and Yara will come back into the storyline and D&D are reminding the show-watchers about him.
• Masterful misdirection in Theon climbing the stairs—only to go directly to Ramsay, rather than helping Sansa. I really thought he would try to help her and then be intercepted by Ramsay and tortured. Having him willingly give her up was more powerful.
• Someone mentioned the idea that Brienne would be flayed. I wouldn’t mind seeing Ramsay try to hunt Brienne and having her kill his dogs and then go after him! The other women he hunted were relatively helpless—Brienne is not.
• Stannis—Melisandre interaction: Part of me hopes Stannis will sacrifice Shireen because that would be a great OMG WTF moment that this season needs. On the other hand, if Stannis chooses to send Melisandre back to the Wall for her suggestion, then she will be available to help Jon after the assassination/attempt.
• I actually didn’t have a problem with the attempted rape of Gilly. In fact, I’ve been wondering how she has managed to survive so long at the Wall without being attacked. Of course, if the attempt had been successful, I would probably not have been okay with it. It helped illustrate the danger to Sam and Gilly and gave us a reminder that the direwolves exist (since we won’t see Summer until next year and Nymeria is AWOL.) I only hope that they don’t make Sam abandon the Watch to leave with Gilly. I also thought the sex scene afterwards was okay. Gilly seems to be unfortunately used to abuse, and clearly values Sam’s life and safety above her own. Given the danger that they are in, I thought it made sense for her to have sex with him while they still could. In fact, I found myself chanting, “Fat pink mast!” the whole time.

Meereen

• I loved Jorah entering the fighting pits and the reveal to Dany. However, Dany’s reaction pissed me off. If, after losing Barristan, and being surrounded by people giving her conflicting advice, she isn’t at least a little happy at the return of Jorah, then she deserves the chaos that she is facing. Even though Jorah initially betrayed, her, she’s got to understand that he advised her well
• I actually like Dany and Daario’s love scenes, perhaps because it’s one of the few places she doesn’t get the “act expressionless” direction.

King’s Landing

• Really excellent scenes IMHO, which may be related to the presence of several very experienced actors. This season, Jonathan Pryce is MVP among new characters, Lena Headey among the regulars. Diana Rigg, Natalie Dormer, and Aiden Gillen are also very experienced.
• The scene with Cersei and Tommen reminded me so much of the scene in Season 1 between Cersei and Joffrey. I think that Tommen will start a war with the Faith and be killed by them in the process, allowing for Myrcella to claim the throne. Unlike others, I thought Cersei was quite sincere in her statement that she would d anything for her children. The tear down her face (when Tommen was not able to see) suggested that to me.
• I assumed that LF’s gift of a handsome young man was Lancel. However, I don’t know how he would know anything about Lancel and Cersei’s affair or Lancel’s role in the murder of Robert. (Tyrion and Bronn seem the most likely – other than Lancel—to reveal the affair. Tyrion chose not to do so, but Bronn still might tell Jaime about it.) Also, as others have mentioned, if Lancel had previously confessed his sins, what could LF tell QoT that would cause the High Sparrow to act? Gendry doesn’t make a lot of sense either, since reveal Tommen as a bastard would not help Marg or Loras in any way. QoT wants revenge on Cersei, but she want the safety of her grandchildren first and foremost. I did wonder if LF could be keeping (f)Aegon somewhere, ready to be unleashed and wed to Marg, but I’m not sure that’s realistic.
• Cersei being thrown into a cell was the PERFECT way to end the episode.

Dorne

• Myrcella is more whiny in the show than in the book, but I can live with that. I did like her statement to Jaime that he does not know her. Like others have said, I think he will tell her the truth (or at least contemplate it)
• I was okay with the Tyene gratuitous nudity—which I normally don’t support. I thought it was good characterization to separate the Sand Snakes from each other. Obara is straightforward and blunt. Tyene is the seductress. Now, we need to see what Nym’s approach is. However, since she didn’t let Bronn die, it felt a little like the scene went nowhere. I do like the suggestion that they will play out the Arianne/Darkstar roles. Will wait to see where this heads.

So Dany is going to rape Hizdahr? I mean, he wasn't given a choice. And I know that the show won't portray it that way, but it will be rape. Also, the show is actually making me root for Hizdahr. I mean, Dany comes into the city and: kills his father, refuses to allow his father to be buried until he begs her, arrests him and kills someone he knows without trial or evidence of guilt, and then forces him to marry her. Not going to lie, I kind of hope he sticks a knife into her.

They do seem to be going out of their way to make Dany seem heavy-handed, but I think we'll see a scene with Dany and Hiz that makes it more even with them or he will come to see the advantages of the match. The way she talked about being wrong and him being right about the pits seemed to me like an attempt to treat him with respect and like an equal (sorta). I don't think we got to see enough of his reaction to know whether he's relieved, upset, or excited about the marriage, so I'll hold off on labeling it as rape for now.

Ok, I can accept4 the new "show rules" that invalidate the marriage between Tyrion and Sansa, I guess. I apparently missed the convo about that.

But what I can't accept is that Cersei is sending people (or asking people) for Tyrion's head, and she has no idea where he is. If she knows where Sansa is, and believes she helped Tyrion kill her son, the king, why isn't she pursuing that as well? If I missed another convo with Cersei explaining herself then I apologize. This season isn't sucking me in as much as the previous ones.

Does Show Cersei believe that Sansa has something to do with Joffrey's murder? I could be wrong, but I think she blames Tyrion only. Of course, I didn't do a season 4 re-watch before season 5 started so I could be wrong.

Victim of the Double Post disease that has been plaguing this thread.

Also, am I wrong or has "The North Remembers" been quoted so far by anyone else besides this serving woman and Ramsay Bolton? I feel like we're being mocked with Manderly's famous words this season.

Not sure if this counts for you, but Tyrion said it right after the Red Wedding, or some variation. I created a lot of furor on this board.

You mean like this?

http://imgur.com/gallery/xHGbPnr

LOL -- I cannot un-see that!

Where is bran and hodor? I never seen them all season. I feel bad for actors having to take a year off just because they dont have a story line.

Wherever he is, I hope Bran is getting a better haircut!

So like three episodes after the infamous trial/execution Danny suddenly decides to ignore her previous rule about not killing people without a trial. So shouldn't she be executed for randomly murdering a potential suspect???

But of course she is one of the biggest hypocrites around...when she is wronged its ok to kill people without finding definitive proof.

Dany will justify it by saying she didn't kill him, the dragon did. That's how she justified it in an earlier episode. "My dragons made no such promise and you threatened their mother."

Stupid Ramsay. He needs a brother, Pops has two castles to pass down. Not his way of thinking though.

I know. I was surprised that Roose didn't mention it.

I was happy with the stone men being included--that was fun. I really expected a mention that Tyrion had previously met Jorah's dad at the Wall and didn't believe the concerns about white walkers. That would have been a nice tie-in to season 1.

I've seen a lot of comments about the lack of subtlety in the show,but from my experience watching other shows without the benefit of having read the book on which they are based, subtlety is difficult in this type of story, with so many twists and Characters, in this medium.

Little background: A sports radio guy in my area will do a 10 minute breakdown of the last episode; I had heard him teasing it for a few weeks but never bothered to listen or still be in the car to catch it. Heard it yesterday. And I think it is just about the best summation of the lowest common denominator audience members the show caters (panders?) to.

Few points:

• Claim to not be a book reader but knows R+L=J theory; so is either reading a bit of the net or the show did a good job.
• "Blood is good, talking is bad"
• The first caller is amazing in his unsullied-ness.
• The second caller claims to be a book reader, is cut off, but was giving poor info anyhow.

Lastly, really strikes home how amazing, crazy, dedicated, and informed folks on this forum are; and how much of a true minority we are.

Episode talks starts at the 35:00 mark and goes for roughly 9 minutes.

Without further ado I give you: Unsullied Radio http://media.957thegame.com/a/104826281/the-damon-bruce-show-5-7-15-hour-1.htm?

LOL I read the transcript and it's hilarious how all the names are distorted.

LMAO, that's hilarious. You seem to think that people actually care enough to pay attention beyond "Oh, that's cool". What, you think people love watching Dancing with the Stars because they know what the actual dances are? Of course not.Lots of people watch popular shows and don't pay a lot of attention to them. The show doesn't cater to the casual viewer AT ALL. Hell, it doesn't even cater to the attentive viewer. It caters to the viewer who will watch it several times. Why? Because there's no way in hell you are going to get everything going on in the show (or even know who every character in the show is) the first time through. How do I know this? Because I didn't read the books before watching the first two seasons. Guess what...I was pretty fucking lost for a while and I didn't catch a lot of stuff the first time through.Anyone who thinks that this show is 'dumbed down' has a skewed perception of what the medium is really capable of in the first place.

I read somewhere that there is a new trend around television shows, specifically dramas, in that they are designed to be re-watched multiple times because that is how people are consuming television now.

I never thought I'd miss Arianne, but the Dorne ladies were annoying.

As others have mentioned I think it's safe to say Shireen and her king's blood will end up leaving with Sam, and Gilly. The scene with her teaching Gilly to read made it on screen for a reason. Who knows if Maester Aemon will die before the trip, or not.

Good call. Plus, they can whitewash Jon a little because he won't have to force Gilly to leave behind her baby.

You can have both Jorah and Selmy.

At the risk of eating crow later, I say they killed Selmy so they could give part of his Meereen chapters to Tyrion

Given the amount of time/dialog allocated to Dany's story, there just isn't enough time for Barristan, Tyrion, Jorah, and Daario. Someone had to go, and at this time Barristan probably made the most sense. I don't like it, but I think there are things that have to be done for a TV adaptation, particularly one that is 10 episodes per season.

umm so cercei sends the door holder, paper fetching, mama's boy mace to deal with the iron bank? that should go well

I think it was more about getting him out of town while she arranged for Loras's arrest.

I tell you, now that I've lowered my expectations of faithfulness to the original story and even a tightly written script, I'm enjoying the show a lot more than I have since Season 1.

Likes:

Jaime getting out of doing any hard work due to his one hand. A the same time, stopping a sword with it. I also like the Jaime going to rescue his daughter story more as a valid reason for not going to rescue Cersei than I did him running around the Riverlands with Brienne. At the same time, I loved the look on his face when they saw Tarth. NCW is an awesome actor and should have been put forth by D&D for an emmy for some of his work on this show.

Stannis as father. I know it's not book Stannis and rather out of character, but I still like it. I feel like Davos is getting shut out. They'd better give him something useful to do soon!

Jorah tossing Tyrion around. Wondering if that was a stunt person or Dinklage getting manhandled. Jorah may serve as good alcohol rehab for Tyrion, who was irritating for most of ADWD.

Dislike:

I really thought Barristan was going to tell the whole Knight of the Laughing Tree story... I hope it comes out at some point.

Too many Sand Snakes. Since they all seem alike (and similar to Ellaria) I'm not sure we needed all three. In the book, they all had different skills and personalities but that doesn't seem to apply here. None will get enough screen time. But I'm willing to wait and see.

Melisandre's lack of subtlety with Jon. I literally burst out laughing when she bared her breasts to him. Seduce him, yes, but a little more subtlety, please.

I didn't buy that Cersei would let Tommen go by himself into danger. Even people who HATE Cersei think she loves her children. That seemed out of character.

As someone mentioned above, the Sparrows are too much like ISIS. I liked them better when they were genuinely trying to protect the smallfolk, septons, and septas. I also thought it was out of character for Cersei to suggest rearming them. I would have liked to see her try to win the High Sparrow over and then begrudgingly allow them to rearm. Also would have liked to see her convince Tommen to sign a decree to that effect.

He knows. There's nothing LF doesn't know, especially when it comes to anything that might effect Sansa. I can't believe he's leaving her there.

Perhaps he's using her as bait to get the North to rise against the Boltons. Also, he can now tell Cersei that Sansa ran away to WInterfell from KL and the Boltons are sheltering her. There goes the Boltons' cover from KL.

Ser Barristan and Grey Worm fighting off the Sons of the Harpy is the most exciting thing on GOT in a while. Profanities galore came out of my mouth. Now that's a change from the book that was powerful!

LOL How about your own user name of Nara. Now is that pronounced like Naira, or is it like Nora or is it Naura like Laura or is it Nara like Lara in Dr. Zhavigo? Now of course I have the Narwhal song song stuck in my head.

Nara Nara living in the ocean

Causing a commotion

Cause you are so awesome

Now you have your own theme song like Stannis does.

I am thrilled to be in the company of Stannis, the rightful king of the 7 Kingdoms.

It's like Lara from Dr. Zhivago. And thanks for the song. Would love to hear you sing it! Maybe a YouTube video? ;)

In real life, names do get pronounced differently by people. But in a TV show where it's hard enough to keep track of people and places, I feel like taking an hour to pronounce all new names,recording it, sharing it with the cast and crew, and asking people to be ask consistent as possible would be time we'll spent. It doesn't have to match GRRM necessarily, it just has to be consistent.

Had anyone else been pronouncing "Cerwyn" differently in their head this whole time? I've always read it as "Ser-win", but apparently (according to Ramsay), it's pronounced "Ker-win." Or I might just have noticed something stupid that no one else dwelt on.

I noticed the same thing. However, they do tend to pronounce names inconsistently in the show (e.g., Tyrells are pronounced 2 different ways in the same conversation in Season 3). Also, when GRRM pronounces Cersei, it sounds more like Ser-Say to me and they all say Ser-See on the show. So GRRM's pronunciation may be different in Cerwyn's case too...

Have you ever had these same problems with Shakespeare's Romeo & Juliet due to the protagonists' age?

Why put 21st century western social contraints and sensibilities on a Medeival fantasy world?

I believe Ser Muradin’s post was less about a teenager having sex and more about D&D’s use of a classic soap opera ploy of rapidly aging up a character so that you can include more mature storylines. It’s frankly a little lazy IMHO.

However, Natalie Dormer has mentioned in interviews that there was a scene in last season that she was uncomfortable doing because Tommen’s character was approx 13 at the time, and they ended up changing that scene. I’m assuming it’s the scene when she sneaks into Tommen’s bed room and presumably she was supposed to engage in some sort of sex act with him. I’m glad they didn’t end up showing that, but it would have made the transition from sweet, innocent (love my kittens) Tommen to “I want to have sex all the time” Tommen less jarring.

Also, if Tommen was 13 last season, it appears they didn’t rapidly age him up much because Show-Tommen was 8 in the first season. However, if Tommen is only 13, then how is he ruling Westeros in his own right and without a regent?

This whole ambiguous age thing is kinda annoying, but maybe also related to fact that actors age faster than characters.

And I think that Bronn is replacing Arys Oakheart's role, too.

I'm wondering if Bronn will also take on the role of telling Jaime about Cersei's infidelity with Lancel. Something has to happen to make Jaime finally break up with Cersei.

On a side note, I kinda miss the part in Tommen's wedding when Cersei and Jaime were terrified about Tyrion jumping out and killing him. And then Cersei refused to dance with Jaime. Utterly unimportant to the plot and they were probably right not to include it, but I liked their vulnerability as parents in that moment and then immediately wanted to throttle Cersei for being such a jerk.

A few thoughts on the sparrows and the brothel scene.

- While the HS in the brothel was largely sexposition (the crotch zoom wasn't necessary), it did set up a few key points in a few minutes in a show with only 10 hours for an intricate story. First, it showed corruption in the church and a lack of purity. This was done in the books but with a focus on wealth not whores. However, the focus on sexual impurity in this instance allows D&D to show how the sparrows treat and punish sexual impurity which sets up Cersei's punishment later this season. It also shows how radical and aggressive the sparrows are compared to the status quo. Was the nudity in the scene heavy handed? definitely. But did the scene serve an important purpose to the storyline? yes.

I actually like the fact that they showed the Septon in the brothel to demonstrate his hypocrisy and corruption, rather than just referring to it. Show vs. Telling works for television. However, it's the choices they make in how to show stuff that sometimes bothers me. They seem to consistently show things in the most graphic manner possible, usually objectifying women. The crotch zoom in this case, the brothel scene with the unsullied in the first episode, the rape at Craster's Keep that they decided to show on screen (because apparently if they showed a girl being dragged into another room, we wouldn't have understood that she was being raped), etc. The rare exception is the mutilation and many scenes of torture for Theon. I don't think the answer is more male nudity, BTW, but I gotta wonder why lingering full frontal nudity was necessary to get the point across in this scene.

Does anyone else get the impression that D & D are a couple of perverts? Seriously, I think many of the actors and especially actresses must be annoyed with some of the shit that they have to do to get a paycheck on this show but really cannot say too much since it would be bitting the hand that feeds them.

Oh yes, definitely pervs. Full frontal female nudity for no real purpose. And to add insult to injury, they do it at the cost of really interesting stuff.

Surprisingly. I found myself enjoying this episode and the changes from the book not bothering me so much. Maybe.....I am past the grief, denial, and anger stages and finally accepting the TV version. The only scene that really annoyed me was ithe High Septon scene in the brothel. Too many nude prostitutes and I felt the show should be concentrating more on what brought the sparrows to King's Landing. It wasn't mainly due to the corruption and hypocrisy of the faith's leaders but the crown's indifference to the suffering of it's people during these years of war. i felt that needed to be emphasized more than it has been.

They wasted time on that scene that could have been used on the Jane's execution, including the original plan to hang him and then Jon remembering the Stark way. I always liked that part.

Anyonw else catch the fact that the High Septon was made to do A Walk of Shame? Hmm, telegraphing future events a bit here. A bit heavy handed of D&D in my opinion.

I thought it made sense actually because it makes the future walk of shame less misogynistic and more about the way they punish all people.

Well what's the big problem with making the change? Does Cersei's paranoia make less sense if there isn't that stark contrast between beautiful young cersei and horrifying Maggy?

To be honest I kinda liked the change, but I really like the more meta lines they include for book readers when they note the changes they're making, like "they said your noes had been cut off, it's not as gruesome as all that", "all your books and you don't know what people will do" and "they said you were terrifying; you're not terrifying, you're boring".

My objection to making her younger is that there are not many roles for older actresses, so why take away this one? Plot wise, it may not really matter.

The Wall scenes have been good so far this season. I give Kit Harington the most improved actor award.

Is it improved acting or is it just that the character is now allowed to do something other than sulk and scowl?

Mostly good about the changes made, even though I prefer the book version. Have come to accept that the show plots are not as tight (but they also didn't take 10 years to write each season).

One question --Why bother coloring Sansa's hair that awful color if they didn't really hide her as Alayne in the Vale or Winterfell?

Double post. That's what I get for using a mobile device.