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ramla

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  1. ramla

    Can we talk about Jon?

    I don't think "wight Viserion" is something that will happen in the books. At least not b4 they actually do battle and a dragon is killed. I think the Others have a dragon already. In the Show dragons seem to be only a dany thing, but in the books there are rumors of other dragons and creature of note. Giant Ice Spiders and Bears and we don't know what else. "Dead things in the woods... Dead things in the Water..."
  2. ramla

    Can we talk about Jon?

    "Applause"! Excellently put!
  3. ramla

    Can we talk about Jon?

    Not really sure, they LOGICALLY didn't suspect. But They did fight a weight bear. They did see walking dead horses. Jon has seen how he can erect the dead without much effort.
  4. ramla

    Can we talk about Jon?

    You do have a point here. lol The show doesn't really portray the north as staunch. cthu A few things... The relationship between Jon and Dany was vague up to boatsex. It was not really shown why they ended up having feeling for each other. They didn't have much screentime together and we the audience weren't shown the developement/progression of thier relationship. just the scene on the stairs... the cave scene... The Dragon scene. But none of them really showed thier budding love in a realistic way ( i know dragons and zombies yada yada). Anyways... I have no doubt she is in love with him and he with her... It just wasn't written well. Jon still didn't need to bend the knee. Its not really a necessity at all. It was put forth by Dany because she see's herself as the Queen of Westeros, and Jon as pretender. Thats where it all stemmed from which wasn't based in love or fondness... They could have sought a partnership which would mean a more mutual respect or fondness! This is what Jon seemed to be wanting the whole time!? He didn't go to Dragonstone to kneel. He went for dragon glass and a possible partnership. In the cave after what seemed to Dany to be a slight turning point she offered her help, if he kneeled again. This was meant to convey her not fully trusting or believing him... this had nothing to do with jon. Like she said she needed to see that it was real. Problem is, kneeling wasn't a viable or logical option for Jon. it was a mechanism put in place to show Dany trying to assert her dominance over Jon... and then later to show her disbelief. Jon kneeling is now a mechanism of discord. An issue to deal with when he returns north. There's no logic behind it. She saw the reality and lost her dragon and then basically sought revenge and decided to work with Jon to destroy the NK. He had what he wanted, almost died to get it. they are partners now and... Jon out of the blue kneels. She's like no... are you certain what about your people?... yeah jon what about them? Jon on the other end of the spectrum was right not to kneel. None of this Kneeling arch was about Jon character development, which seems to have disappeared for the most part since he rose from the dead... Which is curious when a rebirth of sorts often brings huge changes in a character.
  5. ramla

    Can we talk about Jon?

    Oh yeah! LOL Winterfell is about be the nexus of past grievances LOL Dany and Sam got some talking to do.
  6. ramla

    Can we talk about Jon?

    Of course Mance is an extreme example but, Jon Went to treat with Dany and many thought it unwise because, she was technically the Enemy. She even threatened him when he got there. and imprisoned him somewhat. Jon Warden of the north... and the Northern lords have no say in that either? You assume this is cut and dry. I mean you're probably right about it being that simple on the show. But, logically again, in episode 5 I believe they was just talking to Sansa openly about her taking over rulership. If its just a smooth transition it will be a poor characterization of the hard edge of the north. They are not so ok with any of this. but I fear that for the hope of expedience they will make it a one conversation issue.
  7. ramla

    Can we talk about Jon?

    If Jon was a knight i would have no disagreements here, but he's not.
  8. ramla

    Can we talk about Jon?

    Jon as a commander, commanded warriors. But he sought council and communed with his men about what he wanted to do. What he needed to do. he didn't just surprise them with Im doing this and F u. He talked to them, most disagreed, many did agree with his moves. Yes the final say was always his so he did what needed to be done. He didn't NEED to Kneel. Not at all. Command is different then being a king. the politics of dealing with the other houses is different from having soldier who follow your orders under you. Aemon was right about him finding no Joy. this not really a good comparison. thats like jon deciding to make Mance Raider the Lord Commander of the Nights watch and him stepping down... like the Watch wouldn't have an issue with it.
  9. ramla

    Can we talk about Jon?

    And in the books Jon seeks approval and/or council all-the-time. He just doesn't seem to get it. But his actions always have meaning.
  10. ramla

    Can we talk about Jon?

    The show doesn't establish why he bent the knee.... She said SHE wanted to destroy the NK. She didn't say, Kneel and I will help defeat the NK!? She even said "are you sure"? lol And yes according to the show... when it wants to go from point A to point B with Jons character, "Jon just does shit". CTHU This Jon that just does shit is out of character and out of place. Why did Jon bring the wildlings south of the wall? There's a reason.... He didn't jut do shit cause. Why did Jon Kill Quorin Halfhand? Range to Hardhome? Even in the show there are reasons. And he often communed with his colleagues, friends and lords. He even did so when he went south to treat with Dany. He had the final say of course but he didn't just leave. (Mind you it was idiotic for him a King to wrisk his life for this "Person he doesn't know" and to trap a weight.) ...and how dumb is he to believe the Northern Lords will accept her? That makes no sense. She's their queen know without their say! They by proxy, kneel to her without their choice or their oaths. They probably would have logically accept her better had she come to the North as Jons Equal. Like there's nothing logical about any of this. The Northern lords literally were talking about ousting Jon for Sandra! cthu But they ok with him making this level of decision. Right...
  11. ramla

    Can we talk about Jon?

    If its simply recaps it would read like a chronological checklist. But it doesn't. The Article gave exposition and explanations based on their opinion on what was written and filmed. Which was wooden characters with little chemistry and limited and poor dialogue. It CLEARLY fills the voids left behind by poor writing. Maybe not for you. and thats ok. Only thing clear about the screenplay between Jon and Dany was that they needed Jon and Dany to fall in love by episode 6 by any means necessary... They let the plot create the path of the characters instead of it being the other way around. The payoff's was him kneeling and her giving him some. Both gave something. Btw: Jon represents more then his own self interests. He's been, up to this point, even in the show, acting outside of his own personal motivations and fighting for the realm. Giving his knee now is selfish and without concern for the North something out of character for him. " Not because he has to...because he wants to. " Selfish motives without thought of the outcome... but he's honorable. Right. And everything you stated further reinforces the reason for this thread in the first place. The showrunners have butchered Jon's character... Willing to kneel because she's cute and he loves her and she saved him.
  12. ramla

    Can we talk about Jon?

    Forgive me but the show is not deep at all and they mismanaged the dialogue and approach to the whole Dany and jon relationship. Buzzfeed makes a good case by filling in the voids left by the showrunners. But we know they push things to happen even if its not logical. They have established that trend for years now. Here's the thing. Bending the knee to Dany is a complication that he/they did not need at that moment. He hadn't talken to his people back at winterfell about anything. Torrhen was with his people when he bent the knee. Not in some cabin, estranged from those he serves. Dany had just professed to defeat the NK without his bentknee. This complicates matters deeply. The leaders in the North were already questioning Jon Snow's leadership. Now he's bent the knee without consulting anybody? And hasn't been in contact with his people much? King jon Snow's responsibilty is to the people of the North, his family first... Not to Dany. Basically he didn't have to bend the knee to work with Dany. Just work together and deal with it after the others are dealt with.
  13. ramla

    Can we talk about Jon?

    I think this is because the showrunners didn't establish Jon's Warg abilities. Its evident that they had Ghost around him thru-out his time being dead, but not any sort of connection. Without his Warging, his resurrection can't be really explained by the showrunners. They've been know and admitted to making things murky or vague to keep from having to explain stuff. I think in the books his death will have great meaning. I also think Varamyr Six Skins chapter, foreshadows Jons experience with death. Jon's warg abilities were getting stronger and stronger before he died.
  14. ramla

    Can we talk about Jon?

    Doesn't Celibacy mean abstaining from sex? I don't think they would take his head for it, but it is a rule he broke. Jon, intended to ride for Winterfell to make Ramsey answer for what was said in the Pink letter. This alone would be seen as a broken Oath because the NW takes no part in the squabbled of the 7 kingdoms. However, he could make a case that Ramsey threatened the watch and those under his protection which would validate his decision to ride to Winterfell. Yes you're correct he did die. but the wording has to do with the politics of his withdrawal from the watch.
  15. ramla

    Can we talk about Jon?

    Ahhh, The "600 Masks Effect". There are other ways to budget a show then hacking the narrative to pieces. Im pretty sure, that when they negotiated the creation of the show, it was understood that Direwolves and dragons would cost a good deal to produce, but i doubt, GRRm was like "yeah well we don't need the direwolves that much! And there's only one Direwolf that should be active right now. Its a part of the story. Its like deciding not to pay for a machete because its over the Friday the 13th budget and just have Micheal Meyers only do strangulations. LOL Half the good murders are gone! lol jking. Seriously though, its clear they didn't respect that aspect of the story enough to include it. Thats like crystal clear.
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