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SeanF

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Everything posted by SeanF

  1. Re: Tyrion's "evil men" speech to Jon. I think this is where D & D break the fourth wall, and expound on their own political beliefs. That a liberator is necessarily a tyrant, and that the best course in the face of injustice is to turn away and do nothing. Which, naturally, suits the perpetrators of injustice very well. It's a form of selective pacifism. It's also full of lies. Daenerys did not "murder" anyone at Astapor, in the show, nor did she murder the Dothraki Khals. The first action was similar to liberating a concentration camp. The second was straightforward self-defence against people who were debating whether to imprison her in the Dosh Khaleen, execute her, or sell her as a slave. The reference to the crucifixion of "hundreds" of Meereenese nobles (163) overlooks that it was in response to the crucifixion of 163 children. Peter Dinklage delivers this piece of sophistry with gusto, and it sounds persuasive at first, but it really is a morally bankrupt piece of rhetoric. Back in the glory days of the series, we'd have seen this as Tyrion working on Jon, in order to save his own hide. If the book series ends with Tyrion persuading Jon to kill Daenerys, I expect that his motives will be far less virtuous than D & D tried to present.
  2. Yes, I assumed it was the same Fallow. I hope something really horrible happens to him. People who make others slaves should get to experience slavery.
  3. Regarding swinging the sword, you really wouldn't want a slight young women taking repeated swings at your neck, until your head came off. Death by Drogon is far cleaner.
  4. SeanF

    Dany and child murder

    Actually, I think George Martin's attitude to slavery is summed up by Abner Marsh in Fevre Dreme, where he says he'd love to see slavery end peacefully, but if it has to be done by force, then so be it. So, I'd say the correct take is that Dany's anti-slavery campaign was righteous overall, but not everything she did in the course of that campaign was. If she was alays morally perfect, she'd be a Mary Sue.
  5. Revealing Jon's parentage to Tyrion, at the appropriate moment, was very Cerseiesque. Be under no doubt that her aim was to get Daenerys killed at that point, at the hands of her advisors.
  6. SeanF

    Dany and child murder

    The Good/Wise/Great Masters are not the morally righteous side in this conflict.
  7. Jon is not really the one I feel sorry for at that point. In truth, I was unmoved. BTW, did you read how D & D compared the Starbucks cup to a deliberate mistake in an otherwise brilliant Persian carpet.
  8. SeanF

    Dany and child murder

    It would have been considered unusual for a husband to have the right to hand his wife over to his close friends for sex. Dany got lucky. If Drogo had beaten her, mated her to his dogs, hanged her if he got tired of her, she'd have had no redress.
  9. SeanF

    Dany and child murder

    A sex slave with privileges, IMHO.
  10. SeanF

    Dany and child murder

    You're making the argument for doing nothing, in the face of evil. Which is the soft moral option. You might as well argue that modern governments should do nothing to end slavery, because somebody will lose out. As it happens, I think that free enterprise has lifted millions out of poverty.
  11. SeanF

    Dany and child murder

    Some are. But, I don't think that's a great reason to keep slavery in place.
  12. SeanF

    Dany and child murder

    There's plenty of evidence that very many slaves are unhappy with their situation in the East. The slaves of Meereen rose up against their masters. The slaves of Volantis are on the brink of revolt. It would be great if slavery could be abolished peacefully, but we could be waiting for centuries before the Good/Wise/Great Masters conclude that it is wrong.
  13. SeanF

    Master thread on what the Show means for the book plot

    I should add "a dark turn" ought not to mean "go batshit crazy."
  14. SeanF

    Dany and child murder

    Not to mention, she forgives the young man who tries to assault her, after the murder of his family by his slaves, and Ghael, who spits in her face. I can't imagine Joseph Stalin doing that.
  15. SeanF

    Dany and child murder

    GRRM does make the point that tyrants can be good kings. Not that I think that Daenerys will necessarily become a tyrant.
  16. SeanF

    Dany and child murder

    We know that Volantis is on the brink of revolution, by its slaves (eg the Widow on the Waterfront says they're all waiting for Daenerys). Many of Meereen's slaves rise up, when she attacks the city. So, a great many slaves are unhappy with their lot.
  17. "She's not one of us". That's reason enough to hate her. Along with Missandei and Grey Worm. I just loved the way the show validated Northern racism.
  18. SeanF

    Dany and child murder

    That may tell us more about how the Lannisters treat their servants than how the Yunkai treat their slaves.
  19. I may be overthinking this, but she may have thought that keeping Daenerys on the back foot the whole time would help her cause.
  20. I've only just watched Linda Garcia's last review:- "I feel like Charlton Heston at the end of Planet of the Apes. "They did it, they actually did it. The fools."
  21. SeanF

    Dany and child murder

    People tangle themselves in ethical knots to portray Daenerys as the bad guy at Astapor.
  22. And, I think there's a good chance it will go like that in the books. The showrunners preferred a cheap shock to good characterisation.
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