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JagLover

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  1. The problem with much of the analysis I have seen elsewhere, and suggested improvements, is that the show died from a narrative cohesion point of view mid way through S7, with Dany inexplicable not taking KLs and the whole catch a Wight plot. I watched S8 without much enthusiasm and just for the battles really. GOT died for me then, not in S8Ep5. The way to fix things so that character actions make sense is to return to that point and start again. So Dany takes KL, and we have a few episodes devoted to the fall of Cersei, perhaps ones that give Cersei more to do than stand by a window drinking wine. Season eight then by necessity at least one or two episodes longer and give us a proper battle against the NK, rather than the damp squib we have. Leaving Dany in an even more desperate situation than in the show, in that she has the North and KL, but the vast majority of her army has been wiped out. Leading to the whole needing to rule by fear bit to bring the rest of the lords inline. If you are going to show the more ruthless and dangerous Dany, then have her torch another city that fails submit in time, creating a similar scenario. Personally I would then have preferred a more Michael Corleone ending as an increasingly dark Dany rules over all as many of our characters look at her with fear. That would have fit more the theme of the show and books that this isn't a fairy-tale and the strongest and most ruthless rise to the top.
  2. Possession of weapons of destruction means nothing if everyone else doesn't think you are willing to use it. In her eyes she had to demonstrate both the power and the will in order to rule through fear. I am glad we got a calm rational Dany in Ep6 to make it clear it had been a conscious decision.
  3. Besides which the lives of the supposedly "free" working class wasn't much better in pre modern times.
  4. She also had probably something similar planned for Westeros (the breaking the wheel she kept talking about) which would logically be the ending of the feudal system. The showrunners couldn't show that though because suddenly she would be a grey character again rather than a blonde Hitler. So we got lots of talk of liberation and breaking the wheel with no detail on what that actually meant. Hence why she is a metaphor for communism, upending the existing social order, leading to drastic social changes and mass death, but supposedly (t least for some of its adherents) with good intentions.
  5. Slavery is evil, but is every slave owner in a culture that practices slavery evil?. That last point goes to the heart of it as Dany slaughtered every slave owner in Astapor. Many of whom were probably not very dissimilar to the small craftsmen and tradesmen of Westeros. They just had a few slaves rather than servants and apprentices. The setup was there they just did not develop things properly at all on the show. They used Nazi imagery but really Dany was a metaphor for communism. Anyhow I still think the ending was a cop out. Dany sat on the iron throne with Drogon behind her while most kneel before her in fear would have fit the feel of the show far more I think.
  6. I don't see this as Dany going mad, but becoming increasingly brutal and ruthless. It was all in two episodes of the show but I am sure that GRRM, based on Dany's last chapter, has a far more satisfying arc planned out. It is disappointing it ends that way (with Jon killing her for the greater good) as she is one of my favourite characters. Anyhow the show did not nail the landing, they had the chance to provide the satisfying resolution that the books couldn't but failed miserably in anything but action set pieces. So I will look forward to a WOW (which will probably show up in the next five years) and to any future book after that if it ever comes. Perhaps another writer will finish it off sometime, and one with far more talent and guidance that D&D seemed to have.
  7. The happiest I saw Jon was when he was with Ygritte in that "desert of ice" as you put it. He said time and time again he didn't want to be King, so finding a nice girl settling down and hanging out with Tormund might well be his idea of a great life.
  8. Well at least this episode gave some validation to the last one. It was a coldly calculated decision by Dany rather than PMT, or going crazy. I guess a lot of depends on what they got from GRRM. I voted a six as I liked a few things. Arya's fate mirroring that of Frodo in that she had seen too much horror so she was sailing west. Liked Jon ending up beyond the wall, hopefully to settle down with a wildling woman. At least they didn't go for the stupidity of him becoming king. It wasn't as bad as it could have been after the rest of the season.
  9. I think in any original three book plan Dorne would have played a minor role at best. I'm sure we will have a number of chapters about Dorne when WOW is finally released, all part of the meandering of the plot since the start of AFFC. "Where are my dragons" was heavily slated at the time and when we were four seasons in S2 was many people's least favourite season partly as a result. The reason why it mattered so much is it affected the main plot, but in the end the plot diverged and then got back to the same place. There doesn't seem anyway back from the stupidity of this season to enable them to deliver a satisfying conclusion, that bears some resemblance to GRRM's vision.
  10. Then they aren't the same type of plotholes? I have defended the show for years, because past issues have in the end usually been minor stupidities or even just changes resulting from the medium. Even the disaster that was Dorne was a minor problem, because Dorne doesn't matter to the main plot (as evidenced by this season where it just vanishes from the plot with no-one noticing). With the Wight hunt and Winterfell travesties they are destroying the main plot and suggesting they don't know how to end this story.
  11. I think for the season I would split it into two parts First part up until 10-15 minutes into Ep 5. Reasonably logical with the only questionable decisions how quickly Highgarden was taken and how Euron seemed to be omniscent. Opens with the Frey's being wiped out, has some character reunions, ends with the great Spoils of war and then aftermarth in the next episode. Maybe 8-9 Second part when Tyrions "plan" is unveiled and everyone says OK then, rather than tell him to stop drinking so much. This is also when D&D developed their winterfell "plot" with the false conflict and "cunning twist" when it was to trap LF all along. I would really struggle to rate this part. For how disappointed it made me feel considerable less than 5.
  12. For me the major problem with the show is the plot arcs and structure. Aside from a couple of actors the acting ranges from good to very good. There are brilliant costumes, set design, action scenes and CGI. Ep 4 was better than most movies let alone TV shows. The fundamental problem is that once they moved beyond both the books, and what could be reasonable implied from the books, they seem lost. 10 minutes into Ep5 is where the show ended in terms of developing a logical and coherant plot. For it was then that the plan to "catch a wight" to "convince" your defeated enemy was unveiled. Individual episodes can still be decent, the problem is the plot. D&D almost certainly wont be able to bring this to a satisfying conclusion as it seems they don't care anymore, or just don't have the writing ability. Which is a great tragedy as this is the only ending to the story we are ever likely to see.
  13. From episode 5 onwards I have tried to separate out the individual episode rating from the overall plot (which doesn't make sense) On that basis I voted this episode an 8, weighted down still no doubt by how disappointed I am with the decisions they have taken. There is absolutely no reason IMO for Cersei still to be around. The writers love Lena Headey, great, this could have been her season. Her self destruction (as in the books) and eventual demise. Instead character after character has to behave stupidly, illogically or against their previous characterisation just to keep her around. As a season, despite the spectacular moments, this has to be one of the worst.
  14. Well it isn't exactly a 1/3 because no road would be exactly straight. But fair enough, 1,000 miles which is still as long way, but I have heard 2,000 miles stated as fact. Say an eight hours flight?
  15. It is 1,000 miles BY ROAD in the show But 500 leagues as the crow flies in the books (1,500 miles). Hence show Westeros is considerably smaller than book Westeros so all distances cited for the show in this forum, based on the books, are incorrect. I fully agree that there are many aspects of the catch a wight storyline that are incredible stupid. The problem is people seem to be ascribing anything not fully explained to them as stupidity. Another example is the Nights King not reaching the wall. On another forum someone pointed out that the Mountain in the background when the NK was created looks remarkably similar to the mountain in this episode. Perhaps he is waiting for full winter where he was created?, which was obviously a place of power.
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