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  1. I think in any original three book plan Dorne would have played a minor role at best. I'm sure we will have a number of chapters about Dorne when WOW is finally released, all part of the meandering of the plot since the start of AFFC. "Where are my dragons" was heavily slated at the time and when we were four seasons in S2 was many people's least favourite season partly as a result. The reason why it mattered so much is it affected the main plot, but in the end the plot diverged and then got back to the same place. There doesn't seem anyway back from the stupidity of this season to enable them to deliver a satisfying conclusion, that bears some resemblance to GRRM's vision.
  2. Then they aren't the same type of plotholes? I have defended the show for years, because past issues have in the end usually been minor stupidities or even just changes resulting from the medium. Even the disaster that was Dorne was a minor problem, because Dorne doesn't matter to the main plot (as evidenced by this season where it just vanishes from the plot with no-one noticing). With the Wight hunt and Winterfell travesties they are destroying the main plot and suggesting they don't know how to end this story.
  3. I think for the season I would split it into two parts First part up until 10-15 minutes into Ep 5. Reasonably logical with the only questionable decisions how quickly Highgarden was taken and how Euron seemed to be omniscent. Opens with the Frey's being wiped out, has some character reunions, ends with the great Spoils of war and then aftermarth in the next episode. Maybe 8-9 Second part when Tyrions "plan" is unveiled and everyone says OK then, rather than tell him to stop drinking so much. This is also when D&D developed their winterfell "plot" with the false conflict and "cunning twist" when it was to trap LF all along. I would really struggle to rate this part. For how disappointed it made me feel considerable less than 5.
  4. For me the major problem with the show is the plot arcs and structure. Aside from a couple of actors the acting ranges from good to very good. There are brilliant costumes, set design, action scenes and CGI. Ep 4 was better than most movies let alone TV shows. The fundamental problem is that once they moved beyond both the books, and what could be reasonable implied from the books, they seem lost. 10 minutes into Ep5 is where the show ended in terms of developing a logical and coherant plot. For it was then that the plan to "catch a wight" to "convince" your defeated enemy was unveiled. Individual episodes can still be decent, the problem is the plot. D&D almost certainly wont be able to bring this to a satisfying conclusion as it seems they don't care anymore, or just don't have the writing ability. Which is a great tragedy as this is the only ending to the story we are ever likely to see.
  5. From episode 5 onwards I have tried to separate out the individual episode rating from the overall plot (which doesn't make sense) On that basis I voted this episode an 8, weighted down still no doubt by how disappointed I am with the decisions they have taken. There is absolutely no reason IMO for Cersei still to be around. The writers love Lena Headey, great, this could have been her season. Her self destruction (as in the books) and eventual demise. Instead character after character has to behave stupidly, illogically or against their previous characterisation just to keep her around. As a season, despite the spectacular moments, this has to be one of the worst.
  6. Well it isn't exactly a 1/3 because no road would be exactly straight. But fair enough, 1,000 miles which is still as long way, but I have heard 2,000 miles stated as fact. Say an eight hours flight?
  7. It is 1,000 miles BY ROAD in the show But 500 leagues as the crow flies in the books (1,500 miles). Hence show Westeros is considerably smaller than book Westeros so all distances cited for the show in this forum, based on the books, are incorrect. I fully agree that there are many aspects of the catch a wight storyline that are incredible stupid. The problem is people seem to be ascribing anything not fully explained to them as stupidity. Another example is the Nights King not reaching the wall. On another forum someone pointed out that the Mountain in the background when the NK was created looks remarkably similar to the mountain in this episode. Perhaps he is waiting for full winter where he was created?, which was obviously a place of power.
  8. I always remember a review of the Matrix Revolutions when a critic talked about the great visuals, which was so much sound and fury signifying nothing, as it was in the service of a plot so banal. This season, even the show itself, has been damaged by basic flaws in the writing in terms of the structure. The characters do what the plot demands so that D&D can arrive at their "awesome" moments. Putting that aside and viewing the episode in isolation it has decent dialogue, mostly good acting, good action and excellent special effects. It feels so empty to many though as it is all part of the nonsensical quest D&D have sent them on. In isolation I voted a 9, but it was probably more like an 8, but I understand those who are voted around the 5s. I do think however that people tend to attribute anything they do not understand to the show runners being stupid. An example of which is the fact that show Westeros is smaller than book Westeros. Which they tell you in S1E1.
  9. The constraint is the speed of the wagons, not a fast party on horseback. 20-30 miles a day looks more historically realistic http://writemedieval.livejournal.com/4706.html
  10. See my post above. In the books it is 500 leagues as the crow flies.
  11. That has been stated on the show that is true. That is however less than the distance stated in the books by over 500 miles or so. Over because in the books it is 1,500 miles as the crow flies, not by road. So the Show Westeros IS considerable smaller. Furthermore a thousand miles sounds the sort of casual exaggeration you would use in conversation. They have been travelling for a month to get from KL to Winterfell (Cersei Season 1) in a heavily laden caravan that would no doubt have been pausing to hunt and greet local nobles. Realistically that is 30 x 20-30 miles a day. Meaning a distance of 600 to 900 miles by road (not as the crow flies), or in other words roughly half the distance in the books. Dragonstone is further further North than KL as well by quite a few miles. Edited to add. However the show should really give us something more to show distnace than some casual words by Cersei in season 1. many of the complaints over the years about "teleporting" could have been resolved if they had made clear that show Westeros was roughly half the size of book Westeros. All it would have taken is a scene of some military discussion over a map, detailing travel distances.
  12. In the books. Westeros is actually unrealistically large as a united seven kingdoms when the main mode of transport is horseback and there are allot of suggestions its size has been scaled back on the show. My problem with the North of the wall plotline is that they are there at all, to somehow capture a Wight to "convince" someone who has both lost their army and will never be convinced of anything beyond the need to maintain their own power. In terms of the distances this episode however. Firstly Gendry's run, they are what 30-40 miles, at most, out from Eastwatch?, bearing in mind the army of the dead has probably been slowly making its way south of Hardhome towards Eastwatch. For a fit young man with nothing weighing him down, doable in the time frame shown. Then we have the crucial question how far is it, ON THE SHOW, between Dragonstone and Eastwatch. Most people base their scaling of distances on the walls length of 300 miles and then extrapolating that to other distances, that does make Westeros far too large though IMO. The show has scaled down the size of the Nightswatch, it might then be logical to assume that they have scaled down the length of the wall and thus other distances, never explicitly said, as well?
  13. JagLover

    [Poll] How would you rate episode 705?

    Fire breathing Dragons and Ice Demons are part of the fabric of this world. If they did something out of character we would call them up on it. That doesn't mean that a fantasy world cannot have logic and realism in how they act. In fact that is precisely why so many love GRRM's work. I have defended this show numerous times in the past, many of the criticisms of it have been nitpicking of things that did make sense, but you couldn't show all the steps due to the medium. This episode made me very angry, I still voted it a 7 due to the quality of many of the individual scenes, but this idea to capture a wight to "convince Cersei" is by far the most stupid thing they have ever done. Firstly, why do they need to convince Cersei of anything?, she has a few thousand fighting men left plus a glorified city watch and is Queen of one city. Secondly the person arguing for this knows very well that Cersei cannot be convinced of anything beyond the need to maintain her own power.
  14. JagLover

    [Poll] How would you rate episode 705?

    I rated the episode a 7 in isloation, but am now very concerned about this season. When Dany returned to Westeros Cersei was needed to become her adversary. The plot gave her the resources and abilities to present a worthy challenge for the sake of having a good season. Now they seem to want to extend this conflict when there is no logical reason for it. Dany just defeated an army on the approach to Kings Landing, so either assault it or lay siege to it. What is all this cr*p they introduced this episode?.
  15. I liked it more on a second viewing. Aside from Brienne vs Arya I loved the whole episode. I think as well that there is one area where the show is going to be better than the books. From the first season the Lannister army has been the enemy (though we might like individual Lannisters like Jamie or Tyrion). We might have had idoicies like Queen Cersei but how satisfying was it to see a long jet of fire incinerate some more Lannisters? , with no other enemy, aside from now dead Frey's or Boltons, would it have had the same impact. By contrast in the books most think it is most likely that Dany with fight Faegon when she eventually gets to Westeros.