Thunderfist

Why is this disappointing? Ned married Cat under the Seven.

"And one day fifteen years ago, this second father had become a brother as well, as he and Ned stood together at the sept at Riverrun to wed two sisters, the daughters of House Tully" Cat 1 GoT

"He looked somehow smaller and more vulnerable, like the youth she had wed in the sept at Riverrun, fifteen long years gone." Cat 2 GoT

As someone posted in another thread. Cat was a worshipper of the seven, so it makes sense that they married in a sept. Robb worships the old gods, Talisa is from Volantis where they worship R´hllor, so where do the seven fit into that picture? As was also mentioned in another thread, it´s the equivalent of a devout christian marrying a devout muslim in a buddhist wedding-ceremony

I'm curious, why do people expect to see absolutely everything as it happens identical to the books?

I´m curious, when has anyone ever actually said that this is what they wanted?

I gave the episode a 3, would have given it a 2 but I liked Sansas smile and Tywins horse

Agree 100%, Thunder. I often hard on it (I refer to them as HBO moments). They are, however, true to style of the novels in that way (IMO) as Martin includes plenty of gratuitous sex scenes.

HBO's #1 show (by a mile) is True Blood. Which is a Vampire soap opera, with lots of graphic sex. I consider this the price to pay for getting such an awesome show.

Considering it's acceptance in the US (not much), we've gotten more than a fair number of dongs in the show.

I understand your point about male nudity and I´ve also assumed that this is the reason. And I don´t mind sex scenes when they make sense, regardless of if they are in the books or not. I thought the Renly/Margaery scene was really well done and made alot of sense. It showed Renlys frustration and Margaerys pragmatism in ways that seemed true to the characters. However when Littlefinger is telling his masterplan to two random hookers who just happen to be having sex with eachother. I can´t help but think to myself: "what the f-ck?!"

Did you forget Jaime mixing semen with Cersei's period blood? Martin was plenty sexually graphic (and often completely outside the needs of the books). They have done it in different places, but they are quite true to him there.

To me it just feels like they´ve wanted to include as many nude women as possible. When will we see a man doing a full frontal nudity in every other episode?

Ok, now with the hyperbole? First, the changes are made for time and also to add spice to some of the slower stories. And what character is a complete 180? Jaime? The same Jaime that pushed a small boy out of a window hoping that he'd die? Also.. nudity....? Did you read the books? Martin was way more graphic than the show seems to be.

I had to respond to the "adaptation-tatoo" poster with some hyperbole lol, don´t take it too serious

I´ve read the books, though I must have missed the lesbian sex scenes at LF´s place, the scene where Osha fucks Theon, the scene where Joffrey has the hookers beat eachother and many others. T&A that makes sense = good, T&A for the sake of more T&A = bad

I can't think of one change that has significantly changed the course of the series. Please enlighten me if I missed it.

Here are some of the changes that I´ve had issues with, although we might disagree on their relative importance

Jaime killing his cousin, turning him from a man whos two really bad deeds could be justified into a sociopath, thus making redemption seem unlikely

Robb falling in love with Talisa and flaunting it in front of all of his bannermen, changing alot of things about the Red Wedding

Now it seems that Cat will release Jaime without getting the news of Bran and Rickon, changing alot of things about her decisions

Cersei complaining to Tyrion about what a crazy nutbag Joffrey really is, so why all the drama when they offed him at the Purple Wedding

I could list more but I´ve already done so in the threads about the earlier episodes

My only complaint about the series is how radically it has changed my perception of this forum and the members on it. I can't believe how many 'experts' are complaining about things that were explained right on the show. "Wahh, wahh, Catelyn has no reason to free Jaime without hearing of Bran and Rickon." Did you people even watch the episode?

Get the definition of adaptation tattooed on the back of your hands so you can read it while you type.

Adaptation: the process in which a tv-show based on a series of books turns into something utterly unreckognizable, where change is made for the sake of change alone, where the opportunity to show nude women is never missed and where the characters involved end up a complete 180 from what they were like in the original text

Is that about right?

I agree, but still think tere is time to work that in before his release. That may be one of the cliffhangers in the final episode, Cat frees Jaimie.

Considering that the general concensus seemed to be that Jaime wouldn´t survive the night if he remained in the Stark camp, I assume he´ll be set free early in the next episode. Unless it´s a really long night (pun intended)

I guess that did sound kind of contradictory, but I think the main difference is, I can see why most changes are made and even the one's that I've disliked (like Cersei being made to look like a victim of her son) will likely figure into a future scene as well. I actually like most changes (Dany and Jon) just fine because I understand that their stories needed more filler. Some here seem to dislike anything that was changed regardless if it added to the story or not. They seem to just want a straight adaptation, which again, isn't really possible for more reasons than one.

I still haven´t seen anyone who wants a straight adaptation along the lines of "well they really should hire 200.000 extras for the Battle of the Blackwater otherwise that episode will suck". What most "purists" seem to be saying is that there are some changes that they don´t enjoy for whatever reasons. Some people here seem to like the majority of the changes made, some others seem to dislike most of them. Each opinion is equally valid

wait, this was not a point in the books, unless theon fathered them when he was 9 and 11ish

I´m pretty sure that Theon reflects about having slept with the Millers wife on several occasions and that the children might be his. I don´t have my book here atm but perhaps someone could find that passage

First off, people really need to get over the fact that some things are different in the show than in the books.

I do hate that The battle with the others seems to have been cut out, but I guess they figure Jon's story is more important.

Also, I didn't like the scene with Tyrion and Cersei wither because I HATE Cersei and the book never painted her into a good light (as they tried to do with Jaime).

You win!

I gave the episode a 3, I liked the Theon scenes and the scenes with Sansa/Shae/The Hound, I disliked the rest

- Edit: wrong thread -

The Freys don't care if Robb has sex with some nurse. An infatuation is meaningless as long as Robb is willing to follow through on his oath to the Freys.

I agree with you that the Freys probably wouldn´t mind if Robb had sex with some random lowborn girl to blow off some steam or whatever. However I do believe that one or two eyebrows would be raised about the fact that Robb is obviously falling in love with this girl and that he´s showing this in public in front of everyone. The Freys might not have reason to believe that he will end up marrying this girl but I am certain that they would see it as worrying and as an insult.

I'm wondering about that... All the lords of the Reach *are* Tyrell vassals, it's not like they can switch allegiances without batting an eye. The haste with witch Loras and Margaery left implied they feared for their lives. From their own bannermen? Why? That whole plot point I don't quite understand.

And if Tyrell army is so weak compared to the Baratheon army, why would Blackwater turn out the way it probably will?

Don´t expect the show to make sense, you will only get disappointed

Does anyone know if the hound has any connection with the Starks, Possibly Eddard when they were younger? I just seemed when he told Tyrion that he didn't do it for him(save sansa). In the books he also seems to actually like Arya even though he is pretty gruff with her.

I am not aware of any connection between the Hound and the Starks and the Wiki doesn´t list anything

What was weak about the writing? What scenes didn't make sense? Perhaps specifics will change my tune.

Some things that did not make alot of sense:

What happened to the 200-300 men that Rodrik took to Torrhens Square?

How did the mob in Kings Landing manage to rip a mans arm from his body, and why did they do it, are they cannibals?

Why did Myrcella have to cry when the books specify that she doesn´t?

How is it possible that Amory Lorch managed to send a raven to the wrong castle? Why wasn´t the ravens handled by a Maester? Did Lorch just grab a random raven and sent a sensitive message to whereever that raven might land?

When Amory Lorch chased Arya, how come they ran through a yard crowded with Lannister soldiers and noone grabbed Arya. Why didn´t Lorch call out for the men to grab her?

When Ygritte escaped from Jon Snow, why did he chase her? He wasn´t going to kill her, he´d shown that already. He couldn´t take her to Qhorin because Qhorin would kill her. So was he just gonna tie her up and keep her as a prisoner and forget all about the Halfhand and his own mission for the Nights Watch?

How come Qhorin couldn´t find Jon and Ygritte, the man is a master tracker, the best ranger of them all and an expert survivalist, but he couldn´t track Jon and Ygritte in the snow?

How come Robb Stark is talking to Talisa in the middle of their camp. Everyone can see that he´s falling in love with her and "everyone" would include all of his bannermen, most importantly the Freys who might be upset about Robb drooling over someone other than the girl he has promised to marry.

When Catelyn came back to camp, how come Robb didn´t ask about what happened to Renly and who Brienne was? That would be the most logical thing to ask, especially if they´d heard rumours about Renlys death. Instead Robb just casually introduces Cat to the girl he has a crush on.

Those are some of the things that I felt didn´t make alot of sense, you might agree or disagree but these things and others are what I base my rating of this episode on

- edited for spelling -

Exactly, especially with Tywin!

In the books he comes across as a 2D, typical evil villain in the Emperor Palpatine vein. I think the show has enriched the character tenfold!

Skinning the stag? That says so much right there, him chastising his son while skinning a stag? Can't they see the connection? Jaime's getting skinned along with the stag!!!

The Arya-Tywin conversations, the interplay, does he or doesn't know who she is? Can't they see his tenderness towards Arya might be he likes having a girl child that isn't Cersei, almost regretful? There are so many rich possibilities these and the other added scenes add...AS A TV SHOW!

I agree, Mr. F., no point in paying attention to them, but they just really chapped my ass yesterday, especially the condescension in some of the replys from the Novel NAZIs.

See, guys? Condescension.

Well you kind of set the bar when you call the ones who disagree with you Nazis

You pretty much disqualified yourself from any reasonable discussion with such silly generalisations.

It´s not a generalisation, read through the threads on Ep 6 and look at all the ones who´ve listed seeing Osha nude as one of the best things about the episode

Who are the new Dothraki warrior?

Or is he new?

In The Ghost of Harrenhal we see two guys , now one of them a bloodrider, I think, arguing on how to steal a golden peacock. Jorah calls them both by name, and then Dany's tells em how to be guests.

Then the guy shows up , very briefly, in The Old Gods and the New running across the courtyard. He has kind of trimmed beard.

The young guy is Kovarro, one of Danys bloodriders, they changed his name for some reason. The old guy is probably some random extra

I laughed. A lot. :cheers:

Yeah, it's... mind-boggling and so, so silly to read the list of complaints. So many people don't like Arya-Tywin conversations not because they're bad (I really think they are fantastic), but because Tywin is somehow, somewhere "off".

I'm wondering... what if Martin hadn't written the "bed" scene with Shae and Tywin in ASoS? And let's say the TV series "invents" such a scene in its fourth season.

I am willing to bet that all the "purists" would torch their TV screens and quit watching because "they completely and utterly destroyed Tywin", "Benioff and Weiss are morons who don't understand what makes Tywin tick", etc...

I still remember all the hoopla around Tywin's first scene, skinning a stag: "he'd never get his hands dirty, they ruined him, yadda-yadda".

Not much point in paying attention to such things, methinks.

Well that´s an utterly absurd argument and I fail to see the point of it. Are you saying that you don´t understand why made-up scenes that have a massive impact on the characters might cause a reaction amongst the fan-base? Or do you claim that no made-up scene, no matter how out of place and out of character it is will get you to question the decision to include it? Not everyone wants GoT to turn into a dumbed down show for the mindless drones who cheer every time they see a head get severed and who slide their hands down their pants every time they see a boob on tv.

Well I am disappoint. I don't see why they had to kill Irri to introduce a new character. I thought Amrita Acharia did a great job in season 1. And now her death wasn't even the focus of the scene because Daenerys only seemed concerned about her dragons.

If they don't get rid of Doreah (Roxanne McKee) too I'm going to be side-eyeing them quite a lot though. Doreah died in Clash, Jhiqui and Irri were still present in Dance. But now Irri is dead and Jhiqui is a no-show. The pretty white girl survives beyond her original storyline while the two brown girls get an early disappearance ? I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt though. I'll wait and see what they do next.

I don´t know if there´s a racial aspect to the decision, I´m more inclined to believe that Doreah was the only one who agreed to do nude-scenes

And I really agree with you about the actress doing a great job, I especially liked the scene where she yells at Jorah and Rakharo

This episode was so bad, it was almost painful to watch. David and Dan claim to be huge fans of the series, then why do they want to f-ck it up so bad? So many issues that I hardly know where to begin.

The Winterfell scene, while very different from the books worked for me. It got the job done even if it might have implications for Theon in the future.

We have the scene with the riot in Kings Landing which was decent all in all but still had some bad stuff in it. Why was Myrcella crying when the books make a point about her not doing it, it´s a minor change but why change it at all? And when the crowd ripped the arm of the High Septon, what the hell was that all about, I kept waiting for them to start shouting "BRAAAAAIIINS" and begin eating people. And as much as I love the Hound and the fact that he came to rescue Sansa, the added gore just makes the show feel like a really cheap horror movie.

The scenes from Harrenhall were really, really bad this week. First we have the stupid stuff about the secret message that got sent to the made-up house although it goes against the laws of geography and ravenry. Then we have friendly uncle Tywin who is pretty much father of the year in Westeros. I get that they need to give us a reason why Arya doesn´t have Jaqen off Tywin, but to make him this soft and incompetent goes against everything the book made him out to be. Then we have Littlefinger who teleports around Westeros, showing up in places he never visited. I wouldn´t be surprised if we find him in Mance Rayders tent or at a meeting with Dany the next season. In the books, LF is probably one of the most competent players in the game, in the show he´s stupid with no style or discretion. And the scene where Arya got chased was just breathtakingly bad, I was waiting for a shot of a corridor full of doors where they would run in and out of those doors and we´d hear some silly music in the background like something out of a Scooby Doo episode.

The scenes with Jon Snow were full of stupidity as well. I agree with Rockroi about how strange it is that he chases after Ygritte. What´s also strange is that Jon runs what, 150-200 meters to catch Ygritte and all of a sudden he´s completely lost in the wilderness. And Qhorin mother-effing Halfhand, super ranger, master tracker and expert survivalist can´t find him. When you run in snow, you make tracks, hell, anyone could track Jon Snow and find him. And the whole Ygritte-grinding, what was that all about. They are wearing 20 layers of clothing, he´s not gonna feel shit. My bet is that the producers really wanted another stupid T&A-scene but they figured that it would be too unrealistic if Ygritte stripped in -50 C, however, once they get into a cave or near a fire you can bet that those furs are gonna come off.

From one stupid scene to the next as we join up with the cast of Dawsons Creek, err, I mean Robb Stark, Lord of Winterfell and King in the North. Robbs scenes with this Talisa person, the looks, the dialogue, makes my stomach turn. Then all of a sudden Catelyn teleports back in (maybe she borrowed LF´s teleporter?) and Robb simply goes "hay mum, look at this hawt chick I´m drooling over" instead of perhaps saying "So, I heard that Renly Baratheon got killed by a woman while you were in his tent, and who might this enourmous woman in armor be?" And Catelyn is really weak and stupid and simply goes "There there Robby, remember that you gotta marry old Walders ugly granddaughter back at the Twins" instead of doing what any sane person would and think "Damn, look at my boy eyehumping this hot chick, I better make sure to get this girl the f-ck out of here or all kinds of shit is gonna hit the fan".

Dany, damn, I didn´t think it was possible for her character to annoy me more than it does in the books but Emilia Clarke is doing her best to prove me wrong. The girl has got what, 3-5 fighting men and 3 hamster-sized dragons and she´s still going all "Fire and Blood", "Take back what was mine", gawds, go nibble some olives and chill the f-ck down. Then to screw things up a bit more, the showmakers conjure up a dragon-stealing-scene that destroys everything the books tells us about Qarth and it´s people, well done!

But the episode wouldn´t be complete without some T&A so the showrunners picked up the big hat and pulled a name from it. "Who´s gonna do some nudity this week?" - oh look, it´s Osha. What is the point of this scene, to get more boobs on the show, to prove that all men will become utter and complete idiots as soon as there is a woman within 10 meters? And to all you people who seem to get really excited whenever there is a boob on the show, haven´t you ever seen any before? Try a simple google search for "boob", "breast" or "tits" and I´m sure that you´ll find more boobs than you could ever imagine, and maybe if the showrunners did the same, they wouldn´t need to throw more of them into the show.

I´m gonna give this show until the end of this season, if shit doesn´t improve and if they keep f-cking everything up, then I am done. My expectations are so low right now that nothing would surprise me. I´m thankful that Jaime has been invisible this entire season because it would have been painful to watch them screw my favourite character up, although I have full confidence that they will have time for some Brienne/Jaime sex just for the sake of it.

Okay, seriously, why is he chasing her?

If my options were to either spend the night spooning with Ygritte or spooning with Qhorin Halfhand, I´d run after her as well!