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DaveSumm

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Everything posted by DaveSumm

  1. DaveSumm

    Avengers Endgame- SPOILERS

    But there would be kids who were five years younger than them before the snap who were now in the same school year. You’re right though, we still have to accept that Peter, Ned, MJ, that girl who we thought was MJ, and that other kid were snapped. But it’s a handful of people and 50% odds, not at all unusual.
  2. DaveSumm

    Avengers Endgame- SPOILERS

    That’s cool. To take an out-of-universe position for a second, I think the Russo’s clearly wanted to be able to revisit old films, not fuck with the MCU as we know it and have Cap end up with Peggy and have built a theory around it. So I would personally just bend all those arrows back into the main one, including Cap’s yellow one. Thinking about the future of the MCU: I quite like the idea that the European holiday in Far From Home is specifically for students coping with being snapped and missing out on five years. That way we don’t have to fudge the statistics to say that everyone just happened to get snapped. Guardians 3 will clearly be about searching for Gamora, with Adam Warlock getting in the way at some point. That’s all been clearly laid down. Black Panther 2: I noticed some talk of earthquakes in the sea from Okoye but I’m not a comic buff, I don’t know what that might be implying. Black Widow everyone is now thinking will be an origin movie, but I would personally love it if it were set in the five year gap. Having her be a bit mysterious has always worked, I don’t really feel we need to know how it all happened. There’s plenty of cool side missions that could’ve happened in those five years though. Doctor Strange 2 has a villain set up ready in Mordo, but as for post-Endgame effects, I guess there’s no time stone anymore? That’s about it. The Eternals I know nothing about. Shang Chi I know nothing about, and I can’t think of anything particular mentioned going on in Asia that might’ve seeded a plot (outside of Iron Fist anyway). I also quite like the idea of writing in the lack of a leader for the Avengers. Seems it’ll be a while before there’s another Avengers movie if none have been announced, maybe that has some real consequences - the lack of leadership causes them to miss a lot. I hope we actually see that debate and not just have a new team fully realised from the get go. Maybe Wakanda think they should head things up, Strange thinks he should, but Sam wants an official Avengers team and no one agrees?
  3. DaveSumm

    Avengers Endgame- SPOILERS

    Maybe filmed in Scotland, but supposed to be Norway.
  4. DaveSumm

    Avengers Endgame- SPOILERS

    In the comics, where you have a continuing title called ‘Captain America’ then you kinda need someone who calls themselves that. But here in the MCU? Unless you want another movie called Captain America, then it just seems unnecessary to have someone ‘officially’ take over. Falcon can use the shield, but I couldn’t really picture either Sam or Bucky being happy going around calling themselves Captain America.
  5. DaveSumm

    Avengers Endgame- SPOILERS

    To summarise the time travel discussion so far: In the MCU, one can visit the past without affecting their own past. This is established multiple times so we can take it as fact. What you are visiting is actually a distinct parallel universe / timeline / dimension which is either pre-existing or created by the act of visiting it. You are free to remove things from it, and then return them to your own present through a quantum tunnel. The question is, what happens to these universes / dimensions / timelines when you leave? a) They’re still there, minus whatever you took from them, forever. Therefore, the Avengers create four new ones: one where Cap and Tony visited New Jersey in the 70’s (seemingly minimal consequences), one where Loki escaped with the Tesseract just after the Battle of New York (large consequences) one where Thor and Rocket briefly visit Asgard (minimal consequences), and one where Thanos’s entire army is removed in 2014 (massive consequences). You can’t undo these timelines. b) They’re still there, unless events somehow work their way back to playing out as they did in the original timeline, at which point they fold back in. Whether this is by intentional repairing (Cap returning the stones) or by some unknown cosmic force, we don’t know. c) The stones can repair timelines through some unknown mechanism. If all six stones are present in any given timeline, it folds back into the original regardless of how things play out. Now a) doesn’t leave any plot holes in the film, it makes logical sense. It just leaves a moral grey area, in that the Avengers disrupted four other universes to fix their own. Which maaaybe is OK, given that Cap returned the stones. In theory, two of them should play out similarly to the original and wind up with the events of Infinity War and Endgame. One of them has a rogue Loki roaming around which is far too chaotic to predict, and one has its Infinity Stones intact and no Thanos to snap them. Maybe someone worse eventually uses them, or maybe that’s fine. But I would argue that none of the four timelines are definitely worse than ours. I’m not a big fan of b), because we either have to imagine events mystically fixing themselves, or we have to borrow from a) and have loose ends still existing, or we have to imagine that Cap manages to return all the stones AND re-capture Loki AND that Tony has the presence of mind to return Thanos and his army with a wiped memory to their own timeline, which I can’t imagine him doing I’m a proponent of c) because it fixes everything without Cap needing to be an insanely capable individual or Tony to be that careful with his gauntlet wishing. It also has a pretty big added bonus in that now the stones are destroyed, non-destructive time travel is now basically impossible. Which helps the future of the MCU immensely. The only wildcard in all this is Old Cap. If you like a), then he must have returned on the platform before anyone was there, then waited on the bench. If you like b) or c), then he could have just grown old alongside the MCU as we know it. He goes back to someone unknown point in Peggy’s life, but keeps things on the downlow (b) or the stones merge his timeline with the original (c) and he just waits on the bench at the right time. But I think it’s worth noting that a combination of a) and not wanting to believe Cap came back on the platform is the only bonafide plot hole. Everything else makes internal logical sense based on their interpretation of time travel.
  6. DaveSumm

    Avengers Endgame- SPOILERS

    Oh shit, that’s awesome ... I loved how they used time travel because it reminded me of David Deutsch’s version in The Fabric of Reality, but I didn’t realise they actually name-checked it. I’ll have to reread, but I don’t remember anything about how Infinity Stones work...
  7. DaveSumm

    Avengers Endgame- SPOILERS

    I don’t see how it’s a hole at all: they couldn’t have a scene where Carol goes “hey guys good to see you again” because that would confuse people who hadn’t seen Captain Marvel. Plus it’s far less likely that Carol just happens across Tony and Nebula. No, she is summoned by the pager, then the mid-credit scene, then the scene where she rescues Tony, then they all return. Then they skip a bit of time after Pepper and Tony hug, so if you haven’t seen Captain Marvel you can assume they’ve introduced themselves, and if you have, then they didn’t. Works for both audiences.
  8. DaveSumm

    Avengers Endgame- SPOILERS

    Similar to the discussion we had before the movie came out about why people bothered putting up missing posters, I can imagine that all sorts of people were genuinely missing after the snap in the chaos. Some phone companies maybe disconnected, then everyone was all ‘don’t you fucking dare, I’m still holding out hope’ so they left them up as a sign of respect. Or, Clint has his home phone in as his wife, seeing as if he’s not there, that’s who’d be calling him.
  9. DaveSumm

    Avengers Endgame- SPOILERS

    EDIT: sorry, trying to copy a link and can’t seem to get it right. It was an image of the battle with Howard the Duck behind the Wasp. Haven’t diligently checked it’s accuracy yet though.
  10. DaveSumm

    Avengers Endgame- SPOILERS

    Indeed. The fact that Marvel owned them before (and have since re-acquired them) doesn’t change the fact that those are Fox movies, not Marvel Studios movies. I think it’d be a bit rubbish if the Loki series was about an off-shoot Tesseract wielding one, it’d be better as a prequel. Or, personally, I’d be better off without it at all seeing as I’m pretty bored of Loki. The scene where he takes the Tesseract still serves a purpose in that it forces them to go back to the 70’s and steal it from there instead.
  11. DaveSumm

    Avengers Endgame- SPOILERS

    You have a point, I don’t wanna sound like I’m just doggedly defending a theory which has every chance of being wrong, but just for the sake of discussion: Maybe Black Widow trading her life for the stone but then getting saved would ruin our universes plan to unsnap people, and Gamora trading her life then being undone did ruin Thanos plan for that universe (his initial snap in IW).
  12. DaveSumm

    Avengers Endgame- SPOILERS

    I wish I could remember the dialogue by the lake near the end, they did discuss getting her back and decided they couldn’t. This is why I bought a ticket for Sunday as well.
  13. DaveSumm

    Avengers Endgame- SPOILERS

    I saw someone on Reddit point out that the Red Skull probably thought for a few seconds that his tenure was finally over now that the soul stone was gone, he can pack his thing and go ho.... Captain America?! What are you doing here? Oh for fucks sake....
  14. DaveSumm

    Avengers Endgame- SPOILERS

    I would posit no, because she traded her life for the soul stone. But to be fair I can’t really describe how that would actually play out, maybe the soul stone does play by your rules and you really would undo the repair job of unsnapping everyone.
  15. DaveSumm

    Avengers Endgame- SPOILERS

    Again, these are all rules from other movies. In Endgame, if you go back and kill your grandfather, nothing happens to your future. If you pull a Gamora out of her universe then collapse it, nothing happens.
  16. DaveSumm

    Avengers Endgame- SPOILERS

    Basically, everything except Cap showing up makes logical sense. The only question mark is how ethically shady it would be for the Avengers to leave a string of damaged timelines in their wake: if you’re happy with a universe where Loki is out there with the tesseract, and one where Thanos disappears, it works OK. In fact, they may end up being better depending on how bad you think not being alive for five years is. But the Cap bit doesn’t make sense. Man, would’ve killed them to have an Old Cap come back on the platform? Unless he did a few hours earlier when no one was looking ... it’s unclear exactly what part Banner plays pressing the buttons if Cap has the same button thing to pull himself back. In lieu of this being the case, I defer to Wert’s merging theory. It’s the tidiest option.
  17. DaveSumm

    Avengers Endgame- SPOILERS

    They’ve left the exact workings of the gauntlet pretty vague, you appear to just ‘think’ what it is you want and if it’s within its power, it happens. I could imagine Tony just thinking ‘dust everyone who means us harm’, which by then would’ve excluded Gamora. I’d also say that trading a life for the soul stone exempts that life from being returned via the stone, hence why that Gamora is permanently dead and why there was no point trying to get Nat back. You can cheat time, you can’t cheat the stones.
  18. DaveSumm

    Avengers Endgame- SPOILERS

    Well by my ‘timeline absorbtion’ theory, the universe in which Gamora is missing is reabsorbed when the stone is returned. Gamora carries on through GotG1 and 2, then dies in Infinity War, then an anomalous 2014 Gamora finds herself in 2023. So basically returning infinity stones: necessary for timeline repairing, returning people (Thanos, Gamora): not so much.
  19. DaveSumm

    Avengers Endgame- SPOILERS

    But if it is already headed in a direction and then something changes, by what mechanism does it return back? Like, if you went back 10 minutes and moved this pencil on the left side of my desk to the right, where is it when you return? Either it’s on the right, or some final-destination like bullshit happened and it just coincidentally got moved by someone else back to the left or something. I prefer to think the stone has some kind of timeline gravitational pull to it, and the whole line is re-absorbed into the ‘prime’. Then you don’t have to think about each individual situation resolving itself somehow, it just merges.
  20. DaveSumm

    Avengers Endgame- SPOILERS

    Apparently he has it when he goes back to return the stones, I just didn’t notice.
  21. DaveSumm

    Avengers Endgame- SPOILERS

    With regards to Steve’s worthiness, I don’t know why we need a specific reason. He’s grown a lot over those 8 years (2015 - 2018 plus 5), I totally buy that he just became worthy.
  22. DaveSumm

    Avengers Endgame- SPOILERS

    Ah, nice catch. That makes me feel better about it, I normally don’t like it when the timeline ‘magically’ does things for itself as if it has some agency, but I could see the stones being powerful enough to do that. There’s also a bonus to this theory: the stones are now part of a closed loop: they’re created, momentarily borrowed by Endgame, then acquired by Thanos, used for the snap, and then they destroy themselves. Even though the technology still exists, the fact that the stones won’t repair timelines rules out time travel for the rest of the MCU. So we avoid all the classic ‘why don’t they just go back and...’ questions. Ooo nice, thanks. Those are the kind of specific callbacks I was looking for.
  23. DaveSumm

    Avengers Endgame- SPOILERS

    Here’s the links to past MCU films that I noticed: Iron Man: ‘I am Iron Man’, cheeseburgers, take your pick. The Incredible Hulk: Ross is present at Tony’s funeral? Feels a little weak though. Iron Man 2: All the stuff with Tony’s Dad ties mostly back to that film. Thor: Thor gives us the gist in his ramblings about the ether. Captain America: The First Avenger: Cap gets his dance, New Jersey, ‘taking all the stupid with you’, again take your pick really. The Avengers: Literally visited. Iron Man 3: The kid is at the funeral, maybe Pepper wearing armour? Thor: The Dark World: Literally visited. Captain America: The Winter Soldier: New Jersey, Heil Hydra, the elevator in general, Robert Redford, probably more. Guardians of the Galaxy: Literally visited. Avengers: Age Of Ultron: Cap nearly lifting Mjolnir, probably others I’m forgetting. Ant-Man: Hmm... can’t think of anything specific. Obviously the quantum realm plays a huge part but that’s not really specific to this movie and not the sequel. Captain America: Civil War: Tony and Cap’s relationship in general, ‘Queens’, plus Scott introduces himself saying ‘we met in Berlin’. Doctor Strange: The Ancient One. Guardians of the Galaxy 2: Nebula and Gamorrah’s relationship, Quill and Gamorrah ... it’s all tangled up really. Spider-Man: Homecoming: Peter and Ned’s reunion at the end? Possibly others. Thor: Ragnarok: Korg and Miek are back! Black Panther: Well, they’re all in it. Can’t think of anything more specific off the top of my head. Avengers: Infinity War: ... duh. Ant-Man and the Wasp: Maybe Janet Van Dyne being at the funeral? Plus Scott talks about the events obviously. Captain Marvel: She’s ... in it. I could really picture them writing the script and thinking ‘hey it’d be cool to have a specific callback to every movie’, so I reckon there’s stronger examples for some of them.
  24. DaveSumm

    Avengers Endgame- SPOILERS

    Thinking about the Captain Marvel mid-credit scene: I assume she came to Earth, asked where Fury was, they explained and said ‘oh, before we go any further, could you save our friend Tony who went to (...did they have any means of knowing where he was?....)’ so that they all knew each other when she got there in Endgame? I don’t remember if there were any introductions.
  25. DaveSumm

    Avengers Endgame- SPOILERS

    Should according to your rules, not the movie’s. If it helps to call it a dimension jumper, go ahead, that’s basically what it is. Maybe Doctor Strange 2 can do some heavy lifting with explaining what’s gone on here.
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